Excitement Waning for New Releases on BO boards

[daeve]

Too many products, too high a price point, too low on quality control, and zero creativity in the products. Plus the greed is too evident. Any semi-decent idea they have immediately gets run into the ground.

They need to look at the film industry. Struggling with the same schlock of caped hero movies nobody cares about anymore and Barbie mows them all down at the box office because it's a little different, a little creative, and fun. Take a hint.

[Twalk1975]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Part of it that (I don’t think) has been mentioned yet is fatigue.

It was one thing for us to anticipate and celebrate the release for Topps flagship (S1, S2, Update), Heritage (regular and high), Chrome, Chrome Update, and Bowman “flagship” (regular, chrome, and draft) every year. Now, many of these releases have been bifurcated into niche releases, and we have direct online releases. People only have so much excitement and money to disperse into the hobby/business

Fatigue is a very real thing. I've always been a big Star Wars fan, and was at the prequels on opening night. That hasn't been the case with some of the recent movies/shows. More Star Wars seemed like a great thing until we actually got it. I still hope to be pleasantly surprised, but don't expect it. I've felt the same way about cards the last few years. Topps really needs to find a balance between quantity and quality.

[TheGZA]

Originally Posted by daeve

Too many products, too high a price point, too low on quality control, and zero creativity in the products. Plus the greed is too evident. Any semi-decent idea they have immediately gets run into the ground.

They need to look at the film industry. Struggling with the same schlock of caped hero movies nobody cares about anymore and Barbie mows them all down at the box office because it's a little different, a little creative, and fun. Take a hint.

Pretty good analogy, but Barbie still had brand name/nostalgia recognition going for it. I liken it to Fleer Ultra coming back.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

There are just too many products now. there can be no anticipation/excitement if the next product is out the following week.

they should put out 2 low end, 2 mid tier, and 2 high end products, spaced out throughout the spring/summer. It would give dealers more time to sell out and collectors wallets a chance to reload before the next new product releases.

Fanatics has to sell a lot of different products to pay for the expensive licenses and because the players union wants more money for the players.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by TheGZA

Pretty good analogy, but Barbie still had brand name/nostalgia recognition going for it. I liken it to Fleer Ultra coming back.

The designs are really lazy. Its basically topps base with 10k parallels. Would be great if we could get more stuff like the high end 90s sets , but that won't happen as long as the breakers can move all the current garbage.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by daeve

Too many products, too high a price point, too low on quality control, and zero creativity in the products. Plus the greed is too evident. Any semi-decent idea they have immediately gets run into the ground.

They need to look at the film industry. Struggling with the same schlock of caped hero movies nobody cares about anymore and Barbie mows them all down at the box office because it's a little different, a little creative, and fun. Take a hint.

Good analogy.

At the same time, NOT releasing sell sheets for new products until a week before release is REALLY stupid....it's like not releasing any trailers for a movie....

That said, as stale as many of Topps wax products have gotten, they should get credit for some of what they've done in the D-to-C space....Topps Living, Topps Now, Throwback Thursdays, etc.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by daeve

They need to look at the film industry. Struggling with the same schlock of caped hero movies nobody cares about anymore and Barbie mows them all down at the box office because it's a little different, a little creative, and fun. Take a hint.

We’ve got Tacos - it’s a start!

[KhalDrogo]

The hobby today reminds me of where we were in the mid 2000s. Game used, autos, and serial numbered cards were new and special in the late 90s and early 2000s. By the mid-2000s, there wasn’t anything differentiating the products anymore. The dilution effect is real.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Good analogy.

At the same time, NOT releasing sell sheets for new products until a week before release is REALLY stupid....it's like not releasing any trailers for a movie....

That said, as stale as many of Topps wax products have gotten, they should get credit for some of what they've done in the D-to-C space....Topps Living, Topps Now, Throwback Thursdays, etc.

A trailer is only good if it generates interest and excitement for a movie. If it's not well received, it can have an adverse affect on marketing for a film. Likewise, a sell sheet for a product that excites consumers can generate a lot of more demand. But a sell sheet for a mediocre product with bland designs can hurt demand.

Topps is just playing it safe by not releasing sell sheets ahead of time. They know their new products are mediocre and releasing details about them can only hurt sales.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The hobby today reminds me of where we were in the mid 2000s. Game used, autos, and serial numbered cards were new and special in the late 90s and early 2000s. By the mid-2000s, there wasn’t anything differentiating the products anymore. The dilution effect is real.

Difference being that in the early 2000s, there was plenty of competition amongst companies and therefore wax prices were very reasonable.

Back then you had 5-6 different companies competing for your collecting dollar....now it's just two (unless you collect hockey).

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The hobby today reminds me of where we were in the mid 2000s. Game used, autos, and serial numbered cards were new and special in the late 90s and early 2000s. By the mid-2000s, there wasn’t anything differentiating the products anymore. The dilution effect is real.

And sticker autos were pervasive as well. It was a lazy era like now.

[RainCityShecks]

Originally Posted by JRX

That's how social media works. Trout is a perfect example of this.

Doesn’t CC have ++ speed and gobs of power? He could potentially be more athletic than Elly. I bet he actually is. Just not 6 foot 6.

I like both. CC better by a solid margin right now though.


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[mfw13]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

A trailer is only good if it generates interest and excitement for a movie. If it's not well received, it can have an adverse affect on marketing for a film. Likewise, a sell sheet for a product that excites consumers can generate a lot of more demand. But a sell sheet for a mediocre product with bland designs can hurt demand.

Topps is just playing it safe by not releasing sell sheets ahead of time. They know their new products are mediocre and releasing details about them can only hurt sales.

Yes and no.

Having information about a product and deciding you don't like it is effectively the same as not having any information about the product, since in both cases you're not going to purchase it.

However, having information about a product MAY convert a non-buyer to a buyer. That's the principle upon which the entire advertising industry has been based for decades.

Nobody EVER told a manufacturer not to advertise their products because they're worried consumers might not like them!

[JRX]

Originally Posted by RainCityShecks

Doesn’t CC have ++ speed and gobs of power? He could potentially be more athletic than Elly. I bet he actually is. Just not 6 foot 6.

I like both. CC better by a solid margin right now though.


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I'm not arguing who is better or that Corbin isn't having a great season. I'm saying most sports fans have no idea who he is and that's probably not going to change anytime soon. Hell, most casual baseball fans probably have no idea who he is. Its not like Ari gets much national coverage and even if it did, the ratings would be on life support.

[RainCityShecks]

Originally Posted by JRX

I'm not arguing who is better or that Corbin isn't having a great season. I'm saying most sports fans have no idea who he is and that's probably not going to change anytime soon. Hell, most casual baseball fans probably have no idea who he is. Its not like Ari gets much national coverage and even if it did, the ratings would be on life support.

Yeah - agree. I guess being from Seattle we get a bit more CC coverage than most


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[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Difference being that in the early 2000s, there was plenty of competition amongst companies and therefore wax prices were very reasonable.

Back then you had 5-6 different companies competing for your collecting dollar....now it's just two (unless you collect hockey).

I think what would be best for the hobby would be to open up licenses to all the card companies, but limit how many products each can produce. This way you can get healthy competition amongst the companies, but you also keep them from aggressively undercutting each other. Consumers would have a lot more choices and it would generate more interest for the hobby. The leagues and unions would still make good money, but it would come from multiple different companies instead of just one.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Yes and no.

Having information about a product and deciding you don't like it is effectively the same as not having any information about the product, since in both cases you're not going to purchase it.

However, having information about a product MAY convert a non-buyer to a buyer. That's the principle upon which the entire advertising industry has been based for decades.

Nobody EVER told a manufacturer not to advertise their products because they're worried consumers might not like them!

Topps knows there are a lot of entities who will buy their products no matter what -- any marketing would be intended to expand their customer base. But that would require creativity and innovation. It would require effort that Topps and Fanatics don't seem capable or interested in making.

In terms of trailers and other advertising, it seems like nowadays in the social media era, poorly received marketing can hurt demand. Look at Bud Light, for example. Barbie had great marketing and a great presentation. That generated a lot of buzz and interest from women online.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by RainCityShecks

Doesn’t CC have ++ speed and gobs of power? He could potentially be more athletic than Elly. I bet he actually is. Just not 6 foot 6.

I like both. CC better by a solid margin right now though.


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I also forgot to mention arm strength -- Elly threw a historically fast throw in a game this year. That goes along with literally having the best speed in the game. And his max exit velocity is one of the highest in the game as well.

Carroll is a great athlete, but he doesn't have the athletic abilities of Elly. But in baseball, raw athleticism isn't as important as other sports.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by TheGZA

Pretty good analogy, but Barbie still had brand name/nostalgia recognition going for it. I liken it to Fleer Ultra coming back.

A brand name yes, but we're talking about a child's toy. I've already had this argument with some film buddies of mine lol. I don't count it among the same re-treads because Barbie the brand is unlike comic book heroes in that they already have character arcs, plotlines, and adult themes. Not the same thing as some weird Playstation graphic straight-to-video "movies" that are made solely for young children without fully developed frontal lobes to stare at. Mattel had never done films before and had to create a whole new division for it.


I don't think there's a good analogy to be made for cards really.

[SmokeyJ]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I think what would be best for the hobby would be to open up licenses to all the card companies, but limit how many products each can produce.

I would absolutely like more companies with licenses, but I'm not sure how financially feasible it is to put out a low number of products. I don't think a company would earn enough to make that profitable.

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[MoreToppsPlease]

“Excitement Waning for New Releases on BO boards” is this thread’s title. Waning interest, if any comes from the following sources:

1. Far fewer newbies for the board’s opportunists to sell to. It was exciting for the opportunists here to sell to people who didn’t know what anything meant or what they were buying was worth. That excitement was certainly palpable, even among many who are posting in this thread even if they will deny it.
2. Excess product. Topps rightfully ramped up production so that the opportunists wouldn’t be the ones making the most profit off the newbies mentioned above. This step by Topps is completely predictable. The fact they didn’t ramp up production even sooner can be seen as a conscious bone sent to the opportunists.
3. People need a life. Cards are cards, they can’t be the only thing that makes one happy. Plus, it’s hard to have life balance when one spends the majority of one’s day finding ways to squeeze profit from the baseball cards they sell, especially when the customer base shrunk.

There will be even less interest when student loan payments resume.

[hermanotarjeta]

If I ain’t investing with stimmies, I ain’t interested.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

If I ain’t investing with stimmies, I ain’t interested.

…..

[ScooterD]

The card industry operated a bit like the beer industry for a while.

Anheuser-Busch makes Natural, Busch, Bud, and Michelob. Each line is created and proved to a specific market based on that market’s preferences and available funds. Between the different levels of release and Moses of release (retail, hobby, and jumbo), the baseball card industry mimicked the beer industry - each brand was specific to a certain market.

The problem came when the card companies started blurring the lines between these brands, essentially putting cans of Bud in cases of Natty Light. When the Bud market started buying all the Natty Light, that market got pushed out. Same as when the people who own and operate LCSs buy out retail products and mark them up on their shelves.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

The card industry operated a bit like the beer industry for a while.

Anheuser-Busch makes Natural, Busch, Bud, and Michelob. Each line is created and proved to a specific market based on that market’s preferences and available funds. Between the different levels of release and Moses of release (retail, hobby, and jumbo), the baseball card industry mimicked the beer industry - each brand was specific to a certain market.

The problem came when the card companies started blurring the lines between these brands, essentially putting cans of Bud in cases of Natty Light. When the Bud market started buying all the Natty Light, that market got pushed out. Same as when the people who own and operate LCSs buy out retail products and mark them up on their shelves.

Its also that everything is so interchangeable. Sapphire, Chrome, and Base are all the same card, just "better versions" of the same thing.