Bauer Update

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by SDcardguy24

I mean it was only a few months ago where Clevinger was investigated and ended up with no suspension.

Originally Posted by fulltritty

It's actually amazing that he wasn't suspended considering the long line of players who were that were never charged, much less convicted of a crime, in a court of law.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Literally a few months ago Mike Clevenger avoided being suspended by MLB after being investigated for domestic abuse. It was a very public scandal -- the mother of his child publicly accused him of abuse.

You're a little late as we already discussed this.

One non-suspension out of many players suspended.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

One non-suspension out of many players suspended.

15 MLB players have been suspended since 2016 for domestic violence. That's roughly an average of 2 a year.

Who do you think was wrongly suspended for DV?

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

15 MLB players have been suspended since 2016 for domestic violence. That's roughly an average of 2 a year.

Who do you think was wrongly suspended for DV?

You really need to go back and read the thread.

No one is saying anyone was wrongly suspended. My comments were regarding Bauer being suspended because almost everyone with any kind of DV involvement gets suspended except for Clevenger. The burden of proof/investigation by MLB is nothing compared to a prosecutor having to prove in a court of law these guys' guilt; hence the reason next to none of them have been prosecuted in the judicial system.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Easycards

It wasn’t a stupid thing to say, it’s 100 percent true. I don’t have a take on Bauer’s case. I haven’t paid enough attention to it. But the bar for criminal conviction is intentionally high and expecting the “court of public opinion” to abide by it is the ridiculous stance, and it’s what I responded to when I read it.

Also, prosecutors will choose not to pursue a case for a lot of reasons, sometimes there isn’t enough evidence to make charges stick. If they don’t have a case they won’t pursue it. That also doesn’t mean nothing happened. Rape cases are notorious for this.

You don't have a take or haven't followed the Bauer case but popped into the thread about the Bauer Case and made a comment? Wut.

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Uh, no. The judge in the restraining order case determined that Bauer was not a threat to the accuser -- that is the basis of approving a protection order. Bauer never threatened to harm the accuser.

The number one reason a DA chooses not to prosecute someone is insufficient evidence to prove guilt. That doesn't mean the person is innocent. It just means the case against them isn't strong enough to justify committing resources to prosecute.

Yeah, precisely -- if there was any evidence Bauer committed a crime he would have been prosecuted given the publicity and nature of the case.

Running around saying "he's not innocent" is stupid as can be.

[discostu]

We labor over the same inanities.

MLB has a different set of requirements to mete out punishment than judicial systems. This isn't shocking. This is normal.

At the end of the day, those that have far more information into this matter than any of us agreed that Trevor Bauer deserved a record-setting suspension.

The suspension ended.

Bauer was free to sign with any MLB club.

No one offered.

Maybe an MLB offer will arise for him in 2024.

Maybe not.

Maybe he wants to stay in Japan.

Maybe not.

[ThaReal1]

No matter what anyone thinks should have or should not have happenned with this dude...

The reality is....YOUR favorite baseball team didn't think he was worth bringing on for league minimum this year.

[Easycards]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

You don't have a take or haven't followed the Bauer case but popped into the thread about the Bauer Case and made a comment? Wut.



Yeah, precisely -- if there was any evidence Bauer committed a crime he would have been prosecuted given the publicity and nature of the case.

Running around saying "he's not innocent" is stupid as can be.

I don’t know enough to form a very strong opinion, but I do read the headlines. I was curious opened the thread without an intent to weigh in specifically on Bauer, but I responded to a post that highlights a personal pet peeve of mine. I couldn’t help myself. “Innocent until proven guilty” is the guiding rule for a jury in court. It doesn’t extend beyond that and it’s unreasonable to expect public or personal opinions and judgements to be held to a court’s standard. That’s just not the way any of this works.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Easycards

I don’t know enough to form a very strong opinion, but I do read the headlines. I was curious opened the thread without an intent to weigh in specifically on Bauer, but I responded to a post that highlights a personal pet peeve of mine. I couldn’t help myself. “Innocent until proven guilty” is the guiding rule for a jury in court. It doesn’t extend beyond that and it’s unreasonable to expect public or personal opinions and judgements to be held to a court’s standard. That’s just not the way any of this works.

No, it's not just a jury instruction -- it is the bedrock of our society and much of modern Western civilization.

Meritless accusations are not enough to deny an individual their freedom.

Do you happen to live in the Bay Area? I hear things are different there.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by discostu

We labor over the same inanities.



MLB has a different set of requirements to mete out punishment than judicial systems. This isn't shocking. This is normal.



At the end of the day, those that have far more information into this matter than any of us agreed that Trevor Bauer deserved a record-setting suspension.



The suspension ended.



Bauer was free to sign with any MLB club.



No one offered.



Maybe an MLB offer will arise for him in 2024.



Maybe not.



Maybe he wants to stay in Japan.



Maybe not.

That's not accurate.

Those who know more than us looked at the case (after Bauer had been already suspended for over a year) and said, "Hmm, this suspension should be cut in half to end immediately."

Big difference. MLB learned from the Bauer case and didn't suspended Clevinger immediately so they weren't in a position where they would need to save face later. Bauer's "record setting suspension" was an attempt to justify their initial suspension that jumped the gun before the facts came out. It was about optics and had nothing to do with the facts of the case.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[discostu]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

No, it's not just a jury instruction -- it is the bedrock of our society and much of modern Western civilization.

Meritless accusations are not enough to deny an individual their freedom.

Do you happen to live in the Bay Area? I hear things are different there.

Please don't stumble over your frontal lobe here trying to force in phrases like "meritless accusations" in some obtuse defense of Bauer.

The accusations certainly have merit.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by discostu

Please don't stumble over your frontal lobe here trying to force in phrases like "meritless accusations" in some obtuse defense of Bauer.

The accusations certainly have merit.

I'm not defending Bauer -- the principle I'm referring to is larger than one pitcher accused of a sex crime.

Pity some of you can't see that.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

That's not accurate.

Those who know more than us looked at the case (after Bauer had been already suspended for over a year) and said, "Hmm, this suspension should be cut in half to end immediately."

Big difference. MLB learned from the Bauer case and didn't suspended Clevinger immediately so they weren't in a position where they would need to save face later. Bauer's "record setting suspension" was an attempt to justify their initial suspension that jumped the gun before the facts came out. It was about optics and had nothing to do with the facts of the case.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

It was indeed accurate.

MLB did not suspend Bauer before the facts came out. He was on administrative leave while MLB investigated the accusations. Bauer was paid in full while that process dragged out. He was then suspended after the MLB investigation was complete.

Few people or entities (outside of MLB) assumed that the full suspension would be upheld if appealed.

Now, you seem like a semantics kind of guy...so half of 324 is 162. Perhaps splitting hairs, but let's not forget that when Martin Scheinman reinstated Bauer "immediately," there was a caveat...Bauer would not get paid for the 50 games following this reinstatement to account for a full 194-game (IE: "record-breaking") suspension.

Surely you can recognize that Scheinman could have indeed capped the suspension at 162 games, less games or negated altogether. Based on the facts he had, he didn't.

Call it optics or whatever you wish, but MLB and MLBPA have policies in place and it was followed as it was mutually bargained upon.

(Trying to compare the Clevinger case to this is worthless as they don't compare...but you know that.)

[discostu]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

I'm not defending Bauer -- the principle I'm referring to is larger than one pitcher accused of a sex crime.

Pity some of you can't see that.

What is this principle you are defending?

You're in a Bauer thread are you not? Seems silly to paint in some wide brush about "sex crimes" if you aren't referring to Bauer.

This isn't some nonsensical fight for a random individual's freedom, it's about one guy who plays baseball for a living who happened to violate a policy that his union bargained.

[Easycards]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

No, it's not just a jury instruction -- it is the bedrock of our society and much of modern Western civilization.

Meritless accusations are not enough to deny an individual their freedom.

Do you happen to live in the Bay Area? I hear things are different there.

I don’t live in the Bay Area. I don’t root for or against any teams in CA or the NL West if that’s your angle. An individual’s personal opinion is not robbing anyone of freedom or liberty. Get off your soap box.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by discostu

Please don't stumble over your frontal lobe here trying to force in phrases like "meritless accusations" in some obtuse defense of Bauer.



The accusations certainly have merit.

You absolutely can't say with certain the accusations have merit.

[freudianslip]

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Yeah, precisely -- if there was any evidence Bauer committed a crime he would have been prosecuted given the publicity and nature of the case.

Running around saying "he's not innocent" is stupid as can be.

It's not stupid because there is plenty of disturbing evidence of his bad behavior. It may not be enough evidence to prove guilt of a crime in a criminal case, but there's plenty to form an opinion about his character.

[CxL]

to be fair if everyone's bed time routine was public people would probably think different about a lot of people. I am sure there are a lot of players just as much if not more of a freak in the sheets as bauer.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

You really need to go back and read the thread.

No one is saying anyone was wrongly suspended. My comments were regarding Bauer being suspended because almost everyone with any kind of DV involvement gets suspended except for Clevenger. The burden of proof/investigation by MLB is nothing compared to a prosecutor having to prove in a court of law these guys' guilt; hence the reason next to none of them have been prosecuted in the judicial system.

The whole reason MLB's domestic violence policy exists is so the commissioner can easily take action against a player who has been credibly accused of domestic violence or assault, without the need of criminal charges or conviction.

It is a system designed to not let the criminal justice system dictate how to handle a player who has been accused of DV. Oftentimes, a wife or girlfriend of a player will refuse to give testimony against a player for DV, resulting in a criminal case being halted. Wives or girlfriends will be afraid of public scrutiny or retribution for accusing a player of assault or abuse.

Three women -- not one, not two, but three women -- accused Bauer of similar abuse. Keep that in mind.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by CxL

to be fair if everyone's bed time routine was public people would probably think different about a lot of people. I am sure there are a lot of players just as much if not more of a freak in the sheets as bauer.

Three women accused him of assault. This isn't an embarrassing fetish. This is a person who has taken liberties with women.

[CxL]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Three women accused him of assault. This isn't an embarrassing fetish. This is a person who has taken liberties with women.

And they couldn't provide any legal evidence that it wasn't consensual. He likes to be freaky and they knew they could let him do it then try to catch him for money. It is what it is. Why does the guy always have to be at fault in these situations.

[discostu]

Well Japan isn't working out to be a great launching pad for an MLB comeback for Bauer.

[redlegs]

Originally Posted by discostu

Well Japan isn't working out to be a great launching pad for an MLB comeback for Bauer.

why???

[edclay]

Originally Posted by discostu

Well Japan isn't working out to be a great launching pad for an MLB comeback for Bauer.

Originally Posted by redlegs

why???

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...ad/ar-AA1brZUw

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by redlegs

why???

He is a rubbish heap on the pitching mound at the moment.