Self-Proclaimed Prophet Evan Mathis Posts Video on How To Trim Vintage Cards

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by LVDan

Do you really believe that he duped the industry? Far more likely the buyers of the cards simply don’t care IMO.
Buy the grade, not the card.
Never get cheated.
Live fast, die young, leave a good looking corpse.

Merica

90% only care about the opportunity for extra money TPGs could provide them
9% are clueless, ignorant newbies the above 90% desperately want to sell to
1% are spinning the wheel controlling the two groups above

[LVDan]

Originally Posted by thenightman

I’m sure it’s not 100% in either direction between nobody cares and everyone is getting duped. He’s duping people and as a whole effecting the entire industry.

Absolutely correct. Although I do believe that the higher end you go up the $ scale the more informed or less concerned financially on the ramifications buyers become.
In other words id consider a $300 shaved gem to a newbie collector or investor has a much higher likelihood of being a more truly “duping” worthy or sympathy from me. Versus a multiple thousand dollar “rare low pop”shaved gem. In those instances I’m much more likely to believe that the buyer is either a- aware and unconcerned because of the intent to pass off for financial gain later
Or b- has more money than common sense and falls under the category of “a wealthy fool and his $ are easily parted”
A cigarette boat in your driveway looks snazzy as hell.

I’ll be clear though- I think trimming sports cards is an absolute trash move.

[LVDan]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

90% only care about the opportunity for extra money TPGs could provide them
9% are clueless, ignorant newbies the above 90% desperately want to sell to
1% are spinning the wheel controlling the two groups above

I agree with this MTP
That’s very hard to dispute at this point.

[discodanman45]

Can't wait to see new people trying these techniques on really nice vintage cards and ruining them.

[larry25]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Can't wait to see new people trying these techniques on really nice vintage cards and ruining them.

LOL. Yesterday was probably the biggest single-day run on paper trimmers in the history of paper trimmers. Maybe this is what Mathis wanted. Quite a few sales in ended items on eBay from yesterday, with hardly any for the previous week.

[duron]

This will be interesting to follow to say the least. I imagine psa will eventually have to address this in a way they never have.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by duron

This will be interesting to follow to say the least. I imagine psa will eventually have to address this in a way they never have.

PSA won't respond to this in any way unless forced to in a court of law.

[CaptSpaulding]

My opinion is that Mathis may have gotten cards by the graders but he also had a special relationship with PSA at one point..at least when Joe Orlando was in charge. I would wager that most of us submitting would not be able to use a paper cutter slice off an edge or two on a card and get it to grade, even if it still sizes.

This is not my opinion because the graders are so great (however I do feel there is a lot of experience and talent in some of the TPG grading rooms) but that trimming is really one of the easiest things to detect in vintage cards if a submission is really being examined. It is grading 101.

This all goes back to my general opinion that the cards that are altered and in holders are due to relationships with the grading company more than the alterations not being detectable.

[duron]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

PSA won't respond to this in any way unless forced to in a court of law.

That’s part of the reason why I said eventually.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

My opinion is that Mathis may have gotten cards by the graders but he also had a special relationship with PSA at one point..at least when Joe Orlando was in charge. I would wager that most of us submitting would not be able to use a paper cutter slice off an edge or two on a card and get it to grade, even if it still sizes.

This is not my opinion because the graders are so great (however I do feel there is a lot of experience and talent in some of the TPG grading rooms) but that trimming is really one of the easiest things to detect in vintage cards if a submission is really being examined. It is grading 101.

This all goes back to my general opinion that the cards that are altered and in holders are due to relationships with the grading company more than the alterations not being detectable.

See Orwell, G. Animal Farm.(1945).

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by duron

That’s part of the reason why I said eventually.

I will run for president in 2024 with the platform, Make Baseball Cards Great Again." Regulate the industry and burn all doctored cards. Raiding houses until every last Mathis trimmed card is found and disposed of.

[duron]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I will run for president in 2024 with the platform, Make Baseball Cards Great Again." Regulate the industry and burn all doctored cards. Raiding houses until every last Mathis trimmed card is found and disposed of.

Thank you. I… we need a hero.

[larry25]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

My opinion is that Mathis may have gotten cards by the graders but he also had a special relationship with PSA at one point..at least when Joe Orlando was in charge. I would wager that most of us submitting would not be able to use a paper cutter slice off an edge or two on a card and get it to grade, even if it still sizes.

This is not my opinion because the graders are so great (however I do feel there is a lot of experience and talent in some of the TPG grading rooms) but that trimming is really one of the easiest things to detect in vintage cards if a submission is really being examined. It is grading 101.

This all goes back to my general opinion that the cards that are altered and in holders are due to relationships with the grading company more than the alterations not being detectable.

Not when they're rebuilding edges to look natural like Evan does in the video, to some degree, but more like the way Gary what's his name did with older Bowmans and such, using dental tools supposedly. I don't think 9 out of 10 graders would have caught those if not for BODA, and seeing as how 1 out of 10 vintage cards usually get called altered or trimmed in most orders anyways, whether they are or not, trimmed cards will continue to be graded indefinitely. Probably even much more now thanks to Evan.

[ken161]

I actually respect him for posting this. Maybe he'll write a tell-all book about his trimming exploits, including submissions and relationship with PWCC & PSA. I would buy it, and would attempt to get Evan, Brent & Joe Orlando to autograph it.

I walked around a fairly big show this morning for about two hours. Lots of showcases filled with graded cards with razor-sharp corners. I overheard constant chatter about "comps" but nothing about Evan's video. Strange.

I also couldn't help but notice it's getting harder to find raw cards for my 60s sets in well centered EX/EXMT condition. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ken161

I actually respect him for posting this. Maybe he'll write a tell-all book about his trimming exploits, including submissions and relationship with PWCC & PSA. I would buy it, and would attempt to get Evan, Brent & Joe Orlando to autograph it.

I walked around a fairly big show this morning for about two hours. Lots of showcases filled with graded cards with razor-sharp corners. I overheard constant chatter about "comps" but nothing about Evan's video. Strange.

I also couldn't help but notice it's getting harder to find raw cards for my 60s sets in well centered EX/EXMT condition. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

It would only be strange if they were talking about it.

The newbs are ignorant and the other 90% wouldn’t even be there without the ‘opportunity’ slabs could provide them.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by larry25

Not when they're rebuilding edges to look natural like Evan does in the video, to some degree, but more like the way Gary what's his name did with older Bowmans and such, using dental tools supposedly. I don't think 9 out of 10 graders would have caught those if not for BODA, and seeing as how 1 out of 10 vintage cards usually get called altered or trimmed in most orders anyways, whether they are or not, trimmed cards will continue to be graded indefinitely. Probably even much more now thanks to Evan.

I disagree. Evan was not rebuilding the edge, he was laying down fibers that lifted from the trim. You simply cannot chop off an edge or two submit the card and expect it to get past the graders. Paper oxidizes so there will be a difference in the tone on the edges which were chopped off--they will be lighter. Also a paper cutter does not mimic the cut of every single vintage card, all of which have different appearances (or at least most) given the type of blade used to cut the paper.

BODA exposed a flaw in grading but not that it is easy to alter cards and fool the graders. IMO they showed us that submitting cards comes with privileges for certain submitters.

Edit is to add this: Since this scandal broke there have been a member or two here who continue to post that Gary used or uses dental tools to alter cards. My wife is a dentist and I manage her practice. There is not a single tool that I have seen she uses that I could possible see would assist in doctoring a card. Now I would not put it past Gary or others to possibly try to use certain tools including dental tools maybe even a garden rake but stories get started and treated as facts and then posted by others. There is a shitload of misinformation that gets spread by people here who heard something from some who heard something from someone else and it gets posted as if they have first hand knowledge.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I disagree. Evan was not rebuilding the edge, he was laying down fibers that lifted from the trim. You simply cannot chop off an edge or two submit the card and expect it to get past the graders. Paper oxidizes so there will be a difference in the tone on the edges which were chopped off--they will be lighter. Also a paper cutter does not mimic the cut of every single vintage card, all of which have different appearances (or at least most) given the type of blade used to cut the paper.

BODA exposed a flaw in grading but not that it is easy to alter cards and fool the graders. IMO they showed us that submitting cards comes with privileges for certain submitters.

Edit is to add this: Since this scandal broke there have been a member or two here who continue to post that Gary used or uses dental tools to alter cards. My wife is a dentist and I manage her practice. There is not a single tool that I have seen she uses that I could possible see would assist in doctoring a card. Now I would not put it past Gary or others to possibly try to use certain tools including dental tools maybe even a garden rake but stories get started and treated as facts and then posted by others. There is a shitload of misinformation that gets spread by people here who heard something from some who heard something from someone else and it gets posted as if they have first hand knowledge.

I had a root canal a few weeks ago. I can vouch that the tools used in that procedure would destroy any card.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

It would only be strange if they were talking about it.

The newbs are ignorant and the other 90% wouldn’t even be there without the ‘opportunity’ slabs could provide them.

How many new collectors or investors are entering the hobby now that we're two years into a down market? Those who haven't left the hobby should want to know about card altering. Maybe they'll value and chase raw cards more as a result. It's important to change consumer sentiment and behavior if the hobby is going to get less corrupt and shady. Help better inform consumer to make smarter decisions.

[3124508 on COMC]

He's back for more:

https://www.tiktok.com/@evanmathis69...89895857278250

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

He's back for more:

https://www.tiktok.com/@evanmathis69...89895857278250

A lot more, apparently.

[pip]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

He's back for more:

https://www.tiktok.com/@evanmathis69...89895857278250

You can tell Evan has a superior IQ by the way he is carefully handling those uncut sheets.

By the time he's done with all his attention seeking at least he'll still be able to submit all these sheet cut cards to......PRO?

[japhi]

Surprised by the response to the stuff he is doing. The 14 days in darkness, that screen of IM with his wife, are all clearly satire.

And the trimming thing, in the wide open, is refreshing. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of guys doing this in the dark. He is mocking the TPG's, showing how easy it is trim and get cards slabbed. And in the open for years, he bought that trimmer like 3 years ago on his own eBay account, has been buying sheets on the same account, Been flaunting for for years. He's exposed more in those two videos then 200K posts on blowout.

I don't collect high grade because I've known it's BS forever. So a guy beating the TPG's in full view is great, love it. May as well join the party fella's, if the TPG's and high end collectors don't care, why should we?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by japhi

Surprised by the response to the stuff he is doing. The 14 days in darkness, that screen of IM with his wife, are all clearly satire.

And the trimming thing, in the wide open, is refreshing. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of guys doing this in the dark. He is mocking the TPG's, showing how easy it is trim and get cards slabbed. And in the open for years, he bought that trimmer like 3 years ago on his own eBay account, has been buying sheets on the same account, Been flaunting for for years. He's exposed more in those two videos then 200K posts on blowout.

I don't collect high grade because I've known it's BS forever. So a guy beating the TPG's in full view is great, love it. May as well join the party fella's, if the TPG's and high end collectors don't care, why should we?

Most everyone already knew the emperor always had no clothes, it was just more profitable for everyone to pretend he did amongst themselves..

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by japhi

Surprised by the response to the stuff he is doing. The 14 days in darkness, that screen of IM with his wife, are all clearly satire.

And the trimming thing, in the wide open, is refreshing. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of guys doing this in the dark. He is mocking the TPG's, showing how easy it is trim and get cards slabbed. And in the open for years, he bought that trimmer like 3 years ago on his own eBay account, has been buying sheets on the same account, Been flaunting for for years. He's exposed more in those two videos then 200K posts on blowout.

I don't collect high grade because I've known it's BS forever. So a guy beating the TPG's in full view is great, love it. May as well join the party fella's, if the TPG's and high end collectors don't care, why should we?

PSA reportedly denied Mathis' last submission. Clearly they don't want Mathis submitting altered or sheet cut cards to them anymore.

People who buy graded cards surely want the grades to be accurate. Otherwise, why do people pay a premium for graded cards?

The more Mathis exposes the flaws of TPG, the less credibility graded cards will have in the hobby with consumers and hobbyists.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I will run for president in 2024 with the platform, Make Baseball Cards Great Again." Regulate the industry and burn all doctored cards. Raiding houses until every last Mathis trimmed card is found and disposed of.

Don’t burn them.

Put them all in a “Scarlet Slab” tinted red.