movies_n_more777 Fake Slabs & Deactivtions

[NYRE2PECT]

Grandpa sure had a lot of cards…


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[notfast]

I wonder if some of these were stolen or something. That Cobb 3 seems legit and the grade looks accurate.

[WallyatJCCards]

Originally Posted by Triple B

This is a failure on eBay's part to not have their program find things hiding in plain sight.

I couldn't agree more. They add this "silly" additional step which adds to the delivery time, the cost, and the time it takes to receive funds in many cases. Especially when cards are already graded by PSA/BGS/SGC - they are already authenticated, so what additional benefit is eBay adding in this process?

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by towerymt

He was pretty lazy on this one too (round corners in a 7 holder). Cert# didnt exist when I tried checking, but '59s on either side of it. Didnt say deactivated, either.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/65963946

Looking a bit more at this listing:
Vintage Baseball Cards, Mantle, Pete Rose, Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, PSA 7 & 3
https://ebay.com/itm/115589866491

The '68 mantle PSA 7 (cert#: https://www.psacard.com/cert/62390868 ) was sold at auction 10/22/2022 by gmcards2: https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...24129591122445

The listing is still up on ebay for a couple more days ("Note: Listings that have ended more than 90 days ago will no longer appear on eBay."):
https://ebay.com/itm/325381483053

winning bidder: v***2 (14137)

Links to:
Bidder: e***e (14137)
https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/ViewBidder...=2455538661011 (not sure this link will work for much longer. no bids on sportscards showing up here)

Feedback aligns to:
movies_n_more777 (14137)

=============

Went looking for other gmcards2 purchases, found two more:





1961 Topps Set-Break #300 Mickey Mantle PSA 6 EX-MT MBA SILVER
https://ebay.com/itm/325385277594
Ended: Oct 26, 2022 18:13:00 PDT
Winning bid: US $1,177.77 [ 38 bids ]



IMPORTANT NOTICE
Certification number 27142121 has been temporarily DEACTIVATED as a precaution due to its use on a known counterfeit in the market. Please contact the Customer Request Center (CRC) at PSACRC@collectors.com if you own the item or call (800) 325-1121 for further information.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/27142121

==================
1961 Topps Set-Break #300 Mickey Mantle PSA 8 NM-MT
https://ebay.com/itm/325381482993
Ended: Oct 23, 2022 18:38:00 PDT
Winning bid: US $6,507.00 [ 59 bids ]



IMPORTANT NOTICE
Certification number 58317338 has been temporarily DEACTIVATED as a precaution due to its use on a known counterfeit in the market. Please contact the Customer Request Center (CRC) at PSACRC@collectors.com if you own the item or call (800) 325-1121 for further information.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/58317338

^ done editing, for now. I like how the PSA6 and PSA8 were purchased at the same time. I haven't found the fake '61 mantle yet.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by notfast

I wonder if some of these were stolen or something. That Cobb 3 seems legit and the grade looks accurate.

Found a $6500 purchase. Some coin being thrown around at this project.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by WallyatJCCards

I couldn't agree more. They add this "silly" additional step which adds to the delivery time, the cost, and the time it takes to receive funds in many cases. Especially when cards are already graded by PSA/BGS/SGC - they are already authenticated, so what additional benefit is eBay adding in this process?

What’s this thread about?

Frankly the AG side-story is a distraction to this thread.

[Archangel1775]

^----was about to say.

[notfast]

Very odd. A $30 99 Latrell Sprewell is deactivated. Highly doubt that is a fake slab or fake card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564932052...mis&media=COPY

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by notfast

Very odd. A $30 99 Latrell Sprewell is deactivated. Highly doubt that is a fake slab or fake card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11564932052...mis&media=COPY

PSA is either being petty because it was in his legitimate PSA sub or they don’t care to figure out what cards that he sold are fake and which ones are real.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by auburn35

The sellers name wasn't documented in the thread and the eBay listing removed, but the fingers and background matchup with sold items from movies_n_more777.

Appears that PSA was notified about this seller in early December, on their own forums.
Fake Holder?

Wow! How could anyone think that Robinson is an 8? It has rounded corners for crying out loud.

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[corndog]

Originally Posted by towerymt

He was pretty lazy on this one too (round corners in a 7 holder). Cert# didnt exist when I tried checking, but '59s on either side of it. Didnt say deactivated, either.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/65963946



I wonder if this is what the cert# page looks like after the fake card/slab has been pulled from circulation.

Irony.

The original PSA 7 cert #65963946 was purchased from one of the founding WIWAG'ers John Slight of sundiegocollectibles.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by corndog

Irony.

The original PSA 7 cert #65963946 was purchased from one of the founding WIWAG'ers John Slight of sundiegocollectibles.

Birds of a feather?

Unreal.

[DragonWagon]

I went back and checked his last 50+ PSA sales that left feedback. Every cert # was deactivated.


I then checked the sequential cert# and they are all deactivated as of 12/23/2022.

48222452 - 48222560 (109)
48511226 - 48511290 (65)
49598637 - 49598651 (14)
50784325 - 50784380 (57)
51048519 - 51048579 (60)
51053459 - 51053513 (54)

60586939 - 60587016 (69)
64278150 - 64278153 (4)
64854095 - 64854111 (17)

Total (449) DEACTIVATED Cert #

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

I went back and checked his last 50+ PSA sales that left feedback. Every cert # was deactivated.


I then checked the sequential cert# and they are all deactivated as of 12/23/2022.

48222452 - 48222560 (109)
48511226 - 48511290 (65)
49598637 - 49598651 (14)
50784325 - 50784380 (57)
51048519 - 51048579 (60)
51053459 - 51053513 (54)

60586939 - 60587016 (69)
64278150 - 64278153 (4)
64854095 - 64854111 (17)

Total (449) DEACTIVATED Cert #

Thanks for the info.

PSA is doing the right thing by deactivating all of them, even if all of them haven't been swapped out. Likely the higher valued ones were, though. I'm really wondering how much money this scammer made off this scam -- it could be shocking.

I feel sorry for the collectors and investors holding these cards. They need to send their slabs to PSA ASAP to get authenticated.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Correction, I was using the info in the Twitter thread (1st tracking shown as Anaheim) but the seller appears to be located in Minnesota, according to this complaint of resealed video games.

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/...#entry14428656

This info was sent to me by Auburn. I noticed it was not yet posted in the thread. It has been confirmed that the scammer's name is Jason Donley.

Here is a cached image of Donley's name attached to a special order lot of 27 cards from Etsy seller Vintage Fokardz, which specializes in "professionally antiqued & aged custom baseball cards." No doubt some of these "custom baseball cards" ended up in fake PSA holders:

[BonVoyage]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This info was sent to me by Auburn. I noticed it was not yet posted in the thread. It has been confirmed that the scammer's name is Jason Donley.

Here is a cached image of Donley's name attached to a special order lot of 27 cards from Etsy seller Vintage Fokardz, which specializes in "professionally antiqued & aged custom baseball cards." No doubt some of these "custom baseball cards" ended up in fake PSA holders:

Welp, that seals it.
Game, set, match. Point. Game over. End of game.


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[corndog]

movies_n_more777 sold a PSA 10 John Stockton 1988 Fleer #115 towards the end of last year (over 90 days ago). The images from the sale should be in Watchcount.
Neither PSA or VCP picked up the sale on Ebay likely to it being a lot sale.

This is the feedback received from the sale:



This is a real PSA 10 purchase by movies_n_more777 (e***e) on September 30, 2022:



These are three different PSA 8 purchases made by masked ID e***e
in a two week span at the same time period as the PSA 10:








I would imagine that the PSA 10 sold by movies_n_more777 had one of the PSA 8's in a PSA 10 slab.

[DragonWagon]

Originally Posted by corndog

I would imagine that the PSA 10 sold by movies_n_more777 had one of the PSA 8's in a PSA 10 slab.

Here is the PSA 10 sold by movies_n_more777 on 10/24/22

[corndog]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

Here is the PSA 10 sold by movies_n_more777 on 10/24/22

Thanks!

Not the same card.
The PSA 10 he sold is off center left to right.
The PSA 10 he bought is dead centered left to right.

The card #66462469 is still active in the PSA certification database.

[crossada]

I love the Registry but I am done with graded cards. Just seems like there is no point anymore.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by towerymt

I think so too. I saw the 'notch' that was pointed out, didnt see that on my early holders.

Assume this works by buying card, cracking out real card, use real flip in fake holder with either fake card or lesser condition card.

Take real card, sub back to PSA to get new cert number. Repeat?????????????

Buying the already-graded card was careless. Buy raw or non-PSA graded and create real cert#s over time by resubmitting the same cards again and again. Until PSA detects a pattern. Or can detect non-serial numbered cards. First issue solved by going through 3rd party, but then that creates another fingerprint to trace back and find all suspect certs.

This is where the purchase of Genamint should come into play right? Each card should have a digital fingerprint and should be flagged when it is resubmitted.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by corndog

movies_n_more777 sold a PSA 10 John Stockton 1988 Fleer #115 towards the end of last year (over 90 days ago). The images from the sale should be in Watchcount.
Neither PSA or VCP picked up the sale on Ebay likely to it being a lot sale.

This is the feedback received from the sale:



This is a real PSA 10 purchase by movies_n_more777 (e***e) on September 30, 2022:



These are three different PSA 8 purchases made by masked ID e***e
in a two week span at the same time period as the PSA 10:








I would imagine that the PSA 10 sold by movies_n_more777 had one of the PSA 8's in a PSA 10 slab.

Unreal...do we have a beginning date for this guy?

Just curious as to how long this scam might have been running.

[BigSeph]

It would seem that there's a market dynamic that is encouraging this type of behavior.

Collectors view a PSA 10 as exponentially better than a PSA 9 or PSA 8.

Investors want that "PSA 10" label for bragging rights.

PSA registry lovers want to have the highest possible grade on their sets and collections.

So when the same card is massively devalued for having a 9 on the label instead of a 10, hucksters just take the 10 label out of a holder, put it in some blanks that they have picked up (this is the interesting question - where are they getting the "new" slabs from? back door access?) and sell PSA 8s and 9s to buyers who have an irrational obsession with PSA 10s.

It's no secret I have never been a fan of PSA but let this happen to a guy buying a Luka Doncic NT RPA or someone buying a 1952 Mantle and see how the PR is for PSA. It won't be good at all, even though they didn't do anything wrong technically.

Ebay authentication isn't doing anything wrong because seller is listing as a lot.

PSA isn't doing anything wrong they are even decertifying fakes.

The real problem is how massively overvalued PSA 10s are. That's investors and collectors' fault. It incentivizes this exact scam.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

It would seem that there's a market dynamic that is encouraging this type of behavior.

Collectors view a PSA 10 as exponentially better than a PSA 9 or PSA 8.

Investors want that "PSA 10" label for bragging rights.

PSA registry lovers want to have the highest possible grade on their sets and collections.

So when the same card is massively devalued for having a 9 on the label instead of a 10, hucksters just take the 10 label out of a holder, put it in some blanks that they have picked up (this is the interesting question - where are they getting the "new" slabs from? back door access?) and sell PSA 8s and 9s to buyers who have an irrational obsession with PSA 10s.

It's no secret I have never been a fan of PSA but let this happen to a guy buying a Luka Doncic NT RPA or someone buying a 1952 Mantle and see how the PR is for PSA. It won't be good at all, even though they didn't do anything wrong technically.

Ebay authentication isn't doing anything wrong because seller is listing as a lot.

PSA isn't doing anything wrong they are even decertifying fakes.

The real problem is how massively overvalued PSA 10s are. That's investors and collectors' fault. It incentivizes this exact scam.

The OP in this thread shows a Jordan 1.5 and a Yaz 7. It's absolutely incorrect to suggest this scam is brought on by the obsession with PSA 10s. This guy can and would run this scam on lower graded cards all day long. It has nothing to do with PSA 10s.

[StateEx]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

The real problem is how massively overvalued PSA 10s are. That's investors and collectors' fault. It incentivizes this exact scam.

This is a really good point, especially since the prices aren't aligned with the value. That is to say, the value graders supposedly provide are (1) slabbing the card, (2) providing an impartial assessment of its value, and (3) set registries.

There's nothing in that value proposition that should make a 10 exponentially more valuable than an 8 other than the perceived scarcity of the 10 -- which is the same whether the card was graded or not.