Who was more DOMINANT than Orel Hershier in 1988 from start to finish?

[ReggieBush22]

Show me another pitcher who was this good from start to finish, ESPECIALLY paying attention to his legendary, postseason run.

Regular season:

23-8, 2.26 ERA, 15 CG, 8 SO

CY Young, still record 59 scoreless IP


NL Championship:

1-0, 1.09 ERA, 3 starts, 24.2 IP, 1.09 WHIP

Including shutout win in series clinching game 7 and series MVP


World Series:

2-0, 1.00 ERA, 2 starts (both CG), 18.0 IP, 0.722 WHIP

Including CG in the series clincher in game 5, giving up only 2 runs and series MVP. He also went 3-3 at the plate.

[eastbayak]

Madison Bumgarner in 2014

[seanbros55]

Pedro Martinez 1999-2003

[BambinoShuffle]

In 1988? Milli Vanilli. Crushed it the entire year.

[SEAVER1969]

Ron Guidry 1978

[towerymt]

Koufax '65

[BonVoyage]

2.26era was very good but no where near all time great. It’s a 149era+, where Pedro and Maddox were putting up 250-300 era+s in their prime.


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[Robles Fan]

That 59 scoreless innings streak is pretty overlooked and underappreciated. I've always wondered why DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak record is so much more highly regarded and remembered by more. It's no more impressive in my personal opinion.

[Tom Oates]

Cy young award
World Series ring
All star x3
Gold glove
silver slugger
Alcs mvp
Nlcs mvp
WS mvp
POY

Hard to find another pitcher in his era that has as much hardware in the trophy case. And he’s a likable guy with no drama or negative publicity.

Tom

[johnlocke36]

Big Orel fan, played poker with him a few times and very nice guy but to answer your question his season isn't even close to the top.

Lets start with 2001 Randy Johnson. For starters he posted a full +3 WAR better season while strikeing out an extra 200 guys in roughly same ammounts of innings. Then we won the world series going 3-0 with 1.04 era

[johnlocke36]

depends how heavy you value post season but not always the ace fault if they lose, for example 1973 seaver way better, obv most of the pedro, koufax, maddux, clemens johnson seasons way better. moderns guys can prob take any 35 game stretch of degrom career form 2018 to present and would stack up very favorably

[hermanotarjeta]

I think Orel HershiSer was more dominant in 1988.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by BonVoyage

2.26era was very good but no where near all time great. It’s a 149era+, where Pedro and Maddox were putting up 250-300 era+s in their prime.


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just for a fun comparison, DeGrom has a higher career ERA+ then orel's 1998 season and his peak season (alhtough short) was north of 370.

Kershaw and Pedro also have higher careera ERA + the peak Orel

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Madison Bumgarner in 2014

MadBum was very good during the season, and dominant in the WC/LDS/LCS. But then came the World Series...

In 21 innings, just a single run allowed on 11 base runners, 2 wins, and probably the greatest save in the history of Major League Baseball.

He redefined “legendary.”


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[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I think Orel HershiSer was more dominant in 1988.

if your want to compare him to RJ. if you consider having a higher WHIP and a lower ERA+ while striking out 200 less batters all while facing worse hitters to be more dominant then I suppose so.

Otherwise seems like an impossible argument to make given one had a 7 WAR season and the other was north of 10

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

MadBum was very good during the season, and dominant in the WC/LDS/LCS. But then came the World Series...

In 21 innings, just a single run allowed on 11 base runners, 2 wins, and probably the greatest save in the history of Major League Baseball.

He redefined “legendary.”

Ya well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man

Bum '14 WS:
Gm1 7inn, 1er, W
Gm5 Shutout (4 days rest)
Gm7 5inn, 0er, SV (2 days rest)
270 total innings in 2014

Koufax '65 WS
Gm2 6inn, 1er, L
Gm5 Shutout (3 days rest)
Gm7 Shutout (2 days rest)
359-2/3 total innings in 1965

Randy Johnson in '01 only pitched 1-1/3inn in gm7. 3 wins in the series, but just 2 starts. 7inn, 2er. And one shutout.

Fun debate

[solt0131]

Which of all those years did Maddux have just an unbelievable season?

[Mattsurewood]

Bob Gibson 1968

1.12 ERA
304 IP/34 starts (8.94 IP per start)
.853 WHIP
268Ks
13 Shutouts
22-9 record
ERA+ 258
11.2 WAR


2-1 in the world series, all 3 games Complete Games...1.67 ERA, 35ks and a .815 WHIP

[fabiani12333]

I agree -- his '88 season might be the greatest ever when you factor in the postseason.

Ironically, though, he was nearly just as good the following season and went 15-15 and missed the postseason lol. It just goes to show how much context matters in baseball.

[rms13]

I'm old enough that I clearly remember watching him in 88. He was great that season but I have trouble calling someone dominant when they had 6k/9ip. I'd refer to him as crafty like Maddux was. Most dominant I've seen in my life was definitely Pedro 1999. 23-4, 2.07 era, 13.2 k/9ip. 2-0 in post season, 17 ip, 23 k, 0 ER. Struck out 5 in 2 ip in the All Star game Larry Walker, Sosa, McGwire, Bagwell and Larkin.

[scotthenrichs]

Originally Posted by BambinoShuffle

In 1988? Milli Vanilli. Crushed it the entire year.

I think they were more of a 1989 thing. I'd put George Michael as the king of 1988.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by towerymt

Ya well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man

Bum '14 WS:
Gm1 7inn, 1er, W
Gm5 Shutout (4 days rest)
Gm7 5inn, 0er, SV (2 days rest)
270 total innings in 2014

Koufax '65 WS
Gm2 6inn, 1er, L
Gm5 Shutout (3 days rest)
Gm7 Shutout (2 days rest)
359-2/3 total innings in 1965

Randy Johnson in '01 only pitched 1-1/3inn in gm7. 3 wins in the series, but just 2 starts. 7inn, 2er. And one shutout.

Fun debate

I prefaced my comment that MadBum had a very good season and a dominant postseason leading up to the World Series, with the implication that it was an excellent season—but not by any means the most dominant overall season from start to finish.

That ‘01 season by RJ was absolutely filthy. I’m pretty sure that if he pitched at that level in 2022, he would’ve had a sub-1.50 ERA with 420 K.

I’m not denying the dominance of Koufax. But that was a different era. His innings pitched and short rest weren’t anomalous. It was an extraordinary, all-time great season, and by any measure a better all-around season than how Bumgarner performed overall in ‘14.

What MadBum did in the World Series, though, was just so out of the norm for the time. But more than anything, a 5-inning save on two day’s rest to preserve the World Series win? Legendary.


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[JoshMN]

No love for Joe Magrane, huh? He led the National League in ERA and ERA+ in 1988.

So you know, if we are talking dominance in 1988, Joe should be in the conversation since he led Mr. Hershiser in those two categories, no?

[oldgoldy97]

So the consensus is nobody else.

[ucLAkers]