I just came up on a gold mine and im not sure how to proceed.

[nj1980]

Originally Posted by nj1980

I was thinking this one may be centered enough to be a 9 or 10.

I just took this out of the case and put it in a top loader. Other than the slight off centering its pretty flawless. I dont see any reason why this should not come back less than a 9 other than market manipulation. Ive seen many online that have been graded 10 that are in worse shape.

[nj1980]

What are these grader services one of the posters here talked about?

Are they worth it, can they be trusted, and how does one get a referral? And lastly what is the cost?

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by nj1980

What are these grader services one of the posters here talked about?

Are they worth it, can they be trusted, and how does one get a referral? And lastly what is the cost?

You may get some more bites asking the folks in this section the various qualities of each grading service. Each have their defenders and opponents, YMMV.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Never attribute to conspiracy what can just as easily be attributed to incompetence.

But in this case, the answer is both.

"TheFrenzy's Razor" rule of thumb

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by anusinha

edit: and the cards in screw downs may come back as altered since the corners may be squished

This, Im assuming those cards have been those screw downs for a very long time and have been squeezed over time. PSA more than likely will grade them as altered.

[nj1980]

No I took them all out and you cant tell even tell that they have been in screw downs.

Seems like theres a lot of negativity on this site or is it just my imagination.

[marinocollector]

You need to look at the card with a jewelers loupe. Those edges dont look psa 10 clean to me and thats what will kill you besides surface issues which cant be seen in images.

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by nj1980

No I took them all out and you cant tell even tell that they have been in screw downs.

Seems like theres a lot of negativity on this site or is it just my imagination.

You are asking about the rookie card of one of the greatest NFL players ever, in one of the MOST condition sensitive set ever created, being store in a case that has destroyed more cards than preserved. A card that at over 28,800 have been graded by PSA, only 59 have received gem mint, and only 1058 out of hundreds of thousands created, have even received a PSA 9.

You are looking to spend a lot of money to grade these to maximize value.

The odds are well against you in having a 9 in this card. And almost zilch that it is a 10. Not to mention other factors such as sheet cut and surface issues we cannot see, we are being measured and honest.

These are great cards. Great finds. But based on the few apparent issues and the initial enthusiasm, I would be shocked if you received 8s or higher on these. Thats not being negative, just being realistic.

[nj1980]

What does initiial enthusiasm have to do with the grading of the cards?

Do you get docked for being excited?

I wasnt aware there was emotional residue transferred to the card and into PSA headquarters.

[nj1980]

I took the cards out of the screw downs. Thankfully there were no issues with corners squashed and whatnot. If I submit the pictures to you now of them in their top loaders nobody would have ever known they were ever in a screw down case at all.

[nj1980]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

You are looking to spend a lot of money to grade these to maximize value.

Why would it be a "lot of money". According to you they are no better than a 7 so they wont charge any more than usual.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by nj1980

No I took them all out and you cant tell even tell that they have been in screw downs.

Seems like theres a lot of negativity on this site or is it just my imagination.

It may seem like negativity but it's just people who have graded 1,000's of cards being realistic with you. If you just posted the cards and said, look what I just got, people would be happy for you. But you asked for opinions. Would you rather people lied to you?

I thought the same when I found a Jordan rookie and it looked great to me. Posted a picture and it got torn apart when I asked about grades. But people were right and it came back a 6. Sometimes it's better to just listen and learn.

[mikee1186]

Be excited. That's what it's all about! But you came here to find people to share in the excitement (I really think this is an awesome find!) AND to get realistic advice. Just do what you can to prep the cards for submission to give yourself the best chance at success. People here can give advice from past experience about how tough this set and card are graded, but nobody can tell you exactly what PSA will do with these cards. If you expect 7s and 8s then it will be a nice surprise if you get any higher.

[nj1980]

It seems to me that the "screw down cases will ruin your card" is not a valid argument. Has it happened? Sure. Im sure top loaders have ruined cards in some instances as well. If you dont use them properly it wont end well, no matter what it is.

Thankfully like I said I pulled them out and they were all fine.

[nj1980]

Originally Posted by mikee1186

Be excited. That's what it's all about! But you came here to find people to share in the excitement (I really think this is an awesome find!) AND to get realistic advice. Just do what you can to prep the cards for submission to give yourself the best chance at success. People here can give advice from past experience about how tough this set and card are graded, but nobody can tell you exactly what PSA will do with these cards. If you expect 7s and 8s then it will be a nice surprise if you get any higher.

The crazy thing is Ive seen 9s and 10s that look worse than the one I have. I dont understand what is up with PSA but this isnt cool. Honestly I dont even know why we stand for all this. We are paying them for a service, not to be taxed by some disgruntled clown because he got dumped by his gf in the morning. How are they an industry leader?

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by nj1980

What does initiial enthusiasm have to do with the grading of the cards?

Do you get docked for being excited?

I wasnt aware there was emotional residue transferred to the card and into PSA headquarters.

If this is how you respond to people who are giving you their honest opinion (which is spot-on, I might add), stick around, you'll fit in quite well here.

[mikee1186]

Originally Posted by nj1980

The crazy thing is Ive seen 9s and 10s that look worse than the one I have. I dont understand what is up with PSA but this isnt cool. Honestly I dont even know why we stand for all this. We are paying them for a service, not to be taxed by some disgruntled clown because he got dumped by his gf in the morning. How are they an industry leader?

There are other strong options, but the market return won't be there for you. I've loved using SGC for a few submissions. They have a great product. But you'll be 25% minimum off PSA comps, probably more.

[nj1980]

I wasnt trying to be rude, and I do appreciate the input here. I just dont see how "based on initial enthusaism" would have anything to do with the actual value of the card.

Correction. It cant possibly have anything to do with the grading of the card.

[Bassplayah101]

Originally Posted by nj1980

No I took them all out and you cant tell even tell that they have been in screw downs.

Seems like theres a lot of negativity on this site or is it just my imagination.

I don't see anyone being negative, just being honest.

After looking at your pics, I don't even think you have a 9 in that bunch, but at the end of the day, what does that mean? Did you buy them with the intention on trying to flip or are you a collector?

As a collector, I want cards like that in my collection, doesn't matter what shape they're in, so long as they aren't destroyed.

You have a cpl of hugely popular HOF rc cards there and they are in relatively decent shape.

A PSA 10?
Absolutely no way you have a PSA 10 there. One of your Rice's might be a PSA8.5, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The Montana has rough edges and a stain at the top, and your pics are blurry.

First things first, you need a jewelers loupe.
Under magnification, if you find a single edge chip, a little pressure dent on the surface, a print dot, a slight amt of wear anywhere on the gloss, it's not a 10.
I see chipping, i see uncentered borders, I see rough edges just from your pics, and they aren't even completely in focus.

I won't even mention the size requirements, and how, back in the day, you could have 10 of these cards be 10 different sizes, and I will also not mention the trash people in this hobby trying to trim cards like this in order to try to get a higher grade.

Lastly, we can only judge by what you're showing us. See if you can take clearer pics, use a scanner, etc.. get them into focus.
If not avail, I would take these to a card shop (show) and get more eyes on it for additional opinions. Any dealer worth his/her salt prolly has a loupe handy for reviewing the condition of a card.

[nj1980]

Let me take a picture of the best rice one more time now that its out of the screw down.

If this isnt a 9, and you can find numerous 9s and 10s online that look way worse it is a massive injustice. I dont understand how this is tolerated.

[49erRCCollector]

Fellow Niners fan here.

No one's being negative, I think you just need to wrap your head around the fact that there are guys and gals here who have submitted 1000's upon 1000's of cards and really understand the nuance of grading. They know everything. You came for advice, you are getting advice, just maybe not the feedback you hoped for.

The odds any of these are 10s is massively low. I'm talking statistical odds. No emotion involved. The Rice specifically is graded INCREDIBLY harsh with that green border, print defects and centering. Even the slightest excuse to knock it down a grade, and grader a will do it. Have you looked at it under magnification?

Being held in screwdowns means they may be flattened, and PSA will kick it back for that. There are also a lot of fakes around.

I have PSA 9's of both of these and I have separately graded these cards on my own over the years.

Wish you all the best luck, honestly, just know it will a statistical improbability that you have a 10.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by nj1980

I just dont see how "based on initial enthusaism" would have anything to do with the actual value of the card.

Correction. It cant possibly have anything to do with the grading of the card.

That was clearly not what the person meant, because that would be flat-out stupid.

What they obviously meant was that your expressed enthusiasm about how great the condition of these are (9s and 10s!), when viewed in combination with the pictures that, to all the experienced collectors here, do not reflect the grades you think the cards would get, suggests that you probably don't have a great idea what you're looking at when it comes to predicting grades.

Think about it this way - someone posts a picture of a card with a few visible issues and says "Hey, what do you think this would grade?" People say hey, that looks like maybe an 8. Nice card.

Compare that to someone who posts the same picture with the same visible issues and says "Hey, this looks like a ten to me! What do you guys think?" People will say man, this guy thinks it's a 10 despite these visible issues that would make it no better than an 8? He doesn't seem to know what he's doing. I wonder if there are additional condition issues that he's missing that aren't visible in the pictures.

[nj1980]

[IMG][/IMG]

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by nj1980

I wasnt trying to be rude, and I do appreciate the input here. I just dont see how "based on initial enthusaism" would have anything to do with the actual value of the card.

Correction. It cant possibly have anything to do with the grading of the card.

You titled the thread "I came up on a gold mine" and were claiming these cards were all 10s, 9s worse case scenario.

They are all obviously run of the mill 8s or less.

Hence, based on your initial enthusiasm of high grades when they obviously were not, I imagine there are other factors that will cause the grades to be much, much lower.

You seem to have novice experience with cards, and I honestly feel as if these have several factors that your eye is not trained to look for that would get these murdered by a professional grader who had these in hand.

Thats what I meant by "initial enthusiasm"

TL, DR; you dont know what you're doing, so I think these probably have a lot of flaws you don't even know how to look for.

[nj1980]

Originally Posted by zworykin

That was clearly not what the person meant, because that would be flat-out stupid.

What they obviously meant was that your expressed enthusiasm about how great the condition of these are (9s and 10s!), when viewed in combination with the pictures that, to all the experienced collectors here, do not reflect the grades you think the cards would get, suggests that you probably don't have a great idea what you're looking at when it comes to predicting grades.

Think about it this way - someone posts a picture of a card with a few visible issues and says "Hey, what do you think this would grade?" People say hey, that looks like maybe an 8. Nice card.

Compare that to someone who posts the same picture with the same visible issues and says "Hey, this looks like a ten to me! What do you guys think?" People will say man, this guy thinks it's a 10 despite these visible issues that would make it no better than an 8? He doesn't seem to know what he's doing. I wonder if there are additional condition issues that he's missing that aren't visible in the pictures.

Gotcha, this makes much more sense. Thanks for clarifying.