Any estimate of how many 1952 Topps cards exist per player??

[K111]

Not just talking about the Mantles or Robinsons, just the average common/minor stars, any estimates how many cards per player might still exist? I know it was normal for mothers to throw out their kids card collection but I also know most cards of this set could be had ungraded in lower conditions for $10-$15 so they can't be to hard to find.

[irv]

Originally Posted by K111

Not just talking about the Mantles or Robinsons, just the average common/minor stars, any estimates how many cards per player might still exist? I know it was normal for mothers to throw out their kids card collection but I also know most cards of this set could be had ungraded in lower conditions for $10-$15

No idea but black back cards, (Series 1 only in cards from #1 to #80 because they were only produced for a limited time) before the switch to red/white backs, are harder to find, especially in top grade.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...s-black-backs/

[discodanman45]

I think I read somewhere that Topps paid each player $125 for their contract, which was higher than Bowman. Cards were $0.01 a piece. Topps would have had to produce 12,500 cards of each player to get back the contract cost. It wouldn't surprise me if the production was 10 times that or higher for well over 100,000 cards for each player.

Now how many actually survived? It wouldn't surprise me if over 50% were kept.

[Gridmiller]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I think I read somewhere that Topps paid each player $125 for their contract, which was higher than Bowman. Cards were $0.01 a piece. Topps would have had to produce 12,500 cards of each player to get back the contract cost. It wouldn't surprise me if the production was 10 times that or higher for well over 100,000 cards for each player.

Now how many actually survived? It wouldn't surprise me if over 50% were kept.

So there are 50,000 Mantle’s? Or was that a short run?

[glen87]

Originally Posted by Gridmiller

So there are 50,000 Mantle’s? Or was that a short run?

mantle was actually a double print, so twice as many as some other players. but with all those cases being dumped into the ocean, who knows how many actually survived.

[Gridmiller]

I never heard the dumped in the ocean story.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Gridmiller

I never heard the dumped in the ocean story.

Lots of stories about it, and some from those who don't believe the story.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ped-into-ocean
https://afflictor.com/2014/12/15/mr-...tlantic-ocean/

[Soxrule111]

Originally Posted by irv

Lots of stories about it, and some from those who don't believe the story.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ped-into-ocean
https://afflictor.com/2014/12/15/mr-...tlantic-ocean/

How Great would it be if a Story came out that Topps Instructed them do so, but someone Kept them all and they find 1,200 Cases of unopened after all these years.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Soxrule111

How Great would it be if a Story came out that Topps Instructed them do so, but someone Kept them all and they find 1,200 Cases of unopened after all these years.

Well, that would be great I suppose but it certainly wouldn't be great for all those, including me, who have collected them.

[K111]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I think I read somewhere that Topps paid each player $125 for their contract, which was higher than Bowman. Cards were $0.01 a piece. Topps would have had to produce 12,500 cards of each player to get back the contract cost. It wouldn't surprise me if the production was 10 times that or higher for well over 100,000 cards for each player.

Now how many actually survived? It wouldn't surprise me if over 50% were kept.

ok, after doing some research, apparently people estimate there are approximately 5,000 or so 52 Mantles in existence, based on the amount of graded ones (under 2,000) and the amount of ungraded ones that people estimate are lurking around yet to be graded or discovered (mainly older people who collected them in their youth who forgot about them)


so if the 52 Mantle was double printed, it would mean that the average common 52 card maybe has around 2,500 still existing? still seems low

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=233551

https://www.sports-king.com/mickey-m...kie-card-3407/

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by K111

ok, after doing some research, apparently people estimate there are approximately 5,000 or so 52 Mantles in existence, based on the amount of graded ones (under 2,000) and the amount of ungraded ones that people estimate are lurking around yet to be graded or discovered (mainly older people who collected them in their youth who forgot about them)

There are almost 2700 graded between Beckett, PSA, and SGC. 2500 Mantle's in slabs is a safe number. Some were cracked and resubmitted, for example CSG got a cracked PSA 7.5 that they graded a CSG 8.

I think there are a lot more ungraded examples than people think. I am sure there are many hoarders of vintage Mantles that think grading is absolutely ridiculous.

I think that most people can agree that they produced a lot and a lot of them are now gone.

[irv]

Originally Posted by K111

ok, after doing some research, apparently people estimate there are approximately 5,000 or so 52 Mantles in existence, based on the amount of graded ones (under 2,000) and the amount of ungraded ones that people estimate are lurking around yet to be graded or discovered (mainly older people who collected them in their youth who forgot about them)


so if the 52 Mantle was double printed, it would mean that the average common 52 card maybe has around 2,500 still existing? still seems low

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=233551

https://www.sports-king.com/mickey-m...kie-card-3407/

Originally Posted by discodanman45

There are almost 2700 graded between Beckett, PSA, and SGC. 2500 Mantle's in slabs is a safe number. Some were cracked and resubmitted, for example CSG got a cracked PSA 7.5 that they graded a CSG 8.

I think there are a lot more ungraded examples than people think. I am sure there are many hoarders of vintage Mantles that think grading is absolutely ridiculous.

I think that most people can agree that they produced a lot and a lot of them are now gone.

Not that I think grading is ridiculous, (although I am not a fan of PSA for a variety of reasons) but the price they'd charge me to grade mine makes zero sense to me.
It wouldn't take any TPG anymore than 20-30 seconds to either grade mine an "A" or a 1 yet I'd be charged a $1,000 for that?? (If it is not more now?)
It also scares the sh*t out of me sending them through the mail, especially since I am in Canada, and having to deal with customs twice.
I have thought about MNT up here even though I know I likely wouldn't get the same money I would if my Mantle and others were in PSA slabs, but even that scares/concerns me as they don't allow drop offs and pick ups.

[salas1991]

I've always wondered if anyone has actually spent any significant amount of time diving around in that area, or doing some sort of sonar surveying to see if they'd actually manage to come across anything? With all the wax wrapping, maybe something could've survived even after 70 years? Although all the microorganisms down there probably ate through long ago to get to that sweet, sweet gum.

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by salas1991

I've always wondered if anyone has actually spent any significant amount of time diving around in that area, or doing some sort of sonar surveying to see if they'd actually manage to come across anything? With all the wax wrapping, maybe something could've survived even after 70 years? Although all the microorganisms down there probably ate through long ago to get to that sweet, sweet gum.

Haha. I also have always wondered about that. Virtually zero chance that anything survived in recognizable condition even after a few months, let alone years. I don’t think anything in the way those 1952 cards were packed out would have prevented them from getting quickly waterlogged. The salt water would be especially rough on them. But still…

[Gridmiller]

It’s amazing there are so many graded to me considering what they are suctioning for.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by K111

ok, after doing some research, apparently people estimate there are approximately 5,000 or so 52 Mantles in existence, based on the amount of graded ones (under 2,000) and the amount of ungraded ones that people estimate are lurking around yet to be graded or discovered (mainly older people who collected them in their youth who forgot about them)


so if the 52 Mantle was double printed, it would mean that the average common 52 card maybe has around 2,500 still existing? still seems low

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=233551

https://www.sports-king.com/mickey-m...kie-card-3407/

We have to factor in the series distribution. The final series was distributed in much, much smaller quantity than the series preceding it. Series 5 was produced in significantly lower quantity than 1-4 as well. There are some other DP's in lower series but they don't matter a whole lot to people.
Series 1: 1-80
Series 2: 81-130
Series 3: 131-190
Series 4: 191-250
Sereis 5: 251-310
Series 6: 311-407. 311/312/313 are double printed.

There are 2 311 Mantle's printed for every copy of card 314. But that doesn't mean it's more common from cards in other series, only cards within its series.

I think 5,000 still surviving is a low estimate (and those surviving are much less than those printed), personally, but there's not an accurate method to count here and it's just guessing.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

There are almost 2700 graded between Beckett, PSA, and SGC. 2500 Mantle's in slabs is a safe number. Some were cracked and resubmitted, for example CSG got a cracked PSA 7.5 that they graded a CSG 8.

I think there are a lot more ungraded examples than people think. I am sure there are many hoarders of vintage Mantles that think grading is absolutely ridiculous.

I think that most people can agree that they produced a lot and a lot of them are now gone.

I don't think that it is because they think grading is ridiculous. I think it is because they collected before PSA existed and see no reason to spend money on grading cards that they aren't selling. With a 1952 T Mantle, they can give their cards to an Auction House and let them grade it and then sell it.

I almost exclusively buy graded cards today, but the majority of my collection is not graded. I would rather spend money on new cards than plastic slabs. I have graded some, but the last card I had graded was in 2019.

[Treadstone]

More than likely probably a million of each player produced in early series - 1 - 4. then lesser for 5 and 6 say 500,000 of each. Remember you could buy packs in any corner store or toy store around the country at the time. What is left, probably 10 to 20%. Back in the 30's official accounting documents were found for Goudey that had similar numbers and that was 20 years previous. Tobacco cards, way more. Cigs were sold everywhere.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Treadstone

More than likely probably a million of each player produced in early series - 1 - 4. then lesser for 5 and 6 say 500,000 of each. Remember you could buy packs in any corner store or toy store around the country at the time. What is left, probably 10 to 20%. Back in the 30's official accounting documents were found for Goudey that had similar numbers and that was 20 years previous. Tobacco cards, way more. Cigs were sold everywhere.

Not necessarily so from what I've read. Some stories about certain series being available then real tough to find the next series, especially the last series.

Tedz on Net54, when I asked him, stated this and he said in all his time collecting the 52 Topps cards he never once seen the Look N See cards.
Some areas were better than others to get cards from but they weren't readily available like some might think.

[bkspoilers]

Not that I am an expert on 52s, but would the Mantle theory be skewed based on that kids may have only saved Mantle compared to most other players in the day. My years of collecting I have know guys that only saved their favorite player(s) and tossed the rest as they got older. Hence, "common" players may be even be less.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Raleigh504]

Originally Posted by bkspoilers

Not that I am an expert on 52s, but would the Mantle theory be skewed based on that kids may have only saved Mantle compared to most other players in the day. My years of collecting I have know guys that only saved their favorite player(s) and tossed the rest as they got older. Hence, "common" players may be even be less.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Mom's threw out collections of kids when they left the house. I know my dad's baseball card collection was either thrown out or his younger siblings took them. Not sure what he had but it was a common theme for that to happen.

[K111]

Originally Posted by Treadstone

More than likely probably a million of each player produced in early series - 1 - 4. then lesser for 5 and 6 say 500,000 of each. Remember you could buy packs in any corner store or toy store around the country at the time. What is left, probably 10 to 20%. Back in the 30's official accounting documents were found for Goudey that had similar numbers and that was 20 years previous. Tobacco cards, way more. Cigs were sold everywhere.

so you are saying there are at least 100,000 or so ungraded Mantles lying around given 2,000 or so have been known to be graded? I find this hard to believe

[rats60]

Originally Posted by K111

so you are saying there are at least 100,000 or so ungraded Mantles lying around given 2,000 or so have been known to be graded? I find this hard to believe

There were a lot of 50s cards that were thrown out. A lot of prewar cards were recycled during the war. For the last series of Topps, we know that Topps had a lot unsold and the story they tell is that they were destroyed. Cards didn't start becoming valuable until the 60s and started really taking off in the mid-seventies. There was no incentive to take care of them or not throw them out. The numbers printed were a lot larger than what survive today.

[pstaz]

Reading this thread, I wonder what is fascinating kids today that they will yearn for (and pay $$$) in 20, 30, 40 years? Vintage iPhones? Unused Starbucks gift cards?

[Nypinstripes]

Originally Posted by pstaz

Reading this thread, I wonder what is fascinating kids today that they will yearn for (and pay $$$) in 20, 30, 40 years? Vintage iPhones? Unused Starbucks gift cards?

The iPhone 1 still sealed in box sold not long ago for 35k