90s PMG Pumped To Ad Nauseam On Social Media

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Are you kidding? You are absolutely clueless. I said it can be done, there is no onus of proof here. There is no wild speculation and there is no lie.

Here's how it works, simplified:

X and Y are friends, X wants to increase perception of value in his item. He lists it with an auction house. X and Y can recruit Z, 1, 2 and 3 who also have accounts, or they can open accounts under names of friends or relatives willing to help out and manage the accounts directly and offer them a cut.

The auction goes live. The shilling flies under the radar. X's item sells for a new, record price, X has money, so he can pay for direct from one of the accounts he manages directly, or he sends the money to one of his fellow colluders.

The item is then held and is put up for auction again by the winning account, the same process repeats, except now it sells for even more. X has money, so it's no problem to get it paid for.

The trend kicks off and then the item is listed again by the winning account. Now that the hype train is chugging along, they don't need to worry about shilling, the perception of value has been changed. X is satisfied with the amount of money he will make now, no shilling happens once that number is achieved, X dumps the item.

The more popular the item is, the more heat it's generating, the easier it is to execute to successful completion. Especially because X can reference "legitimate" sales. I already touched on this.

There it is for you in plain English. Have you actually read my posts? What else do you need to be educated on?

This is one of many ways the prices can be manipulated and many here are aware of this. This applies to all high end cards and collectibles as well. So let us not portray that the prices of PMG's are the only ones that have been manipulated while other high end collectibles are not. As I said earlier, prices of many high end collectibles have gone up similar or more than PMG's percentage wise since 2019. So let us not pretend that the PMG prices went up because of manipulation while other high end cards went up because of organic demand.

Moreover, for such a scheme to work, the same card should have been on the market multiple times within a short period of time, which is not the case (except SN #56) based on the data below-

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Here I did it. Here is the sales history I can see for the Jordan PMG available on card ladder going back to 2011. Obviously there may be unaccounted for private sales - but that does very little for the “pump and dump scheme” you have noted. There are a few early sales on eBay I can’t see the SN for, but I’ve listed the grade auction site and SN of every card I can see. From what I see SN #18 was sold twice (in 2011 & 2015), and SN# 56 was sold twice (in 2020 and 2021).

*edited with more sales I missed

6/25/2022 - BGS 7 $450,000 (Goldin) SN# 79/100
10/25/2021 - BGS 8.5 $399,740 (Goldin) SN# 56/100
7/17/2021 - BGS 8 $312,000 (PWCC) SN# 73/100
5/23/2021 - BGS 6.5 $242,400 (Goldin) SN# 20/100
2/4/2021 - BGS 8 $480,000 (Heritage) SN# 52/100
2/1/2021 - PSA 6.5 $480,000 (Goldin) SN# 95/100
12/11/2020 - PSA 6 $222,745 (Mile High) SN# 97/100
11/20/2020 - BGS 8.5 $233,700 (Goldin) SN# 56/100
10/20/2020 - BGS Auth $151,926 (PWCC) SN# 43/100
7/28/2019 - BGS AUTh $25,223 (eBay) SN#
5/31/2017 - BGS 8 $15,000 (eBay) SN# NA
5/16/2017 - BGS 8.5 $19,600 (PWCC) SN# 75/100
2/20/2017 - BGS 8.5 $9,323 (eBay) SN# NA
11/20/2016 - PSA Auth $21,453 (eBay) SN# 23/100
5/18/2016 - BGS 8 $9600 (PWCC) SN# 16/100
9/20/15 - SGC A $8988 (PWCC) SN# 22/100
2/13/15 - BGS 8 $10,100 (PWCC) SN# 18/100
11/6/14 - BGS 8.5 $10,001 (eBay) SN# 99/100
2/5/14 - BGS 8.5 $8099 (eBay) SN# N/A
10/20/13 - $7099 (eBay) SN# N/A
5/25/12 - BGs 9.5 $41,825 (Heritage) SN# 87/100
11/17/11 - $6800 (eBay) SN# 18/100
9/25/11 - $8600 (eBay) SN# N/A

I think price manipulation (shill bidding via friends/family/fake accounts) is almost everywhere in the world of high end collectibles (paintings, comic books, sports cards, NFT's etc). It happens less at high end auction houses such as Christies, Bonhams, Sothebys because of the background check and capital requirement to bid on high end items. The OP took a general theme and applied to one particular thing. The scheme you mentioned can also be applied to the top 5 cards in OP's wish list and it will hold true.

EDIT: The total graded pop of PMG Red's is 59 (PSA and BGS). Assuming the pop report is inflated ~20% due to crossovers and resubmissions, true pop is probably close to 50. As far as I know, it is not only rare but also has been a sought after card for a while. When I entered sports cards in late 2018, it was my #1 Jordan card to acquire because I liked the aesthetics of it in addition to its rarity. It took me more than a year to acquire one because most owners that I contacted on IG were not willing to sell theirs. I was finally able to acquire one in April 2020 and I paid high six figures for it. I have no plans to sell mine for the next 5-10 years or maybe even longer and it will be one of the last five cards in my PC that I would part with. Any collectible that is rare and desirable has gone up 10-50X in the past 5 years and no one can deny that. And looking at the sales data above, 97 MJ PMG Red's do not show up for sale every month or two like Brady Champ Ticket, Lebron Exquisite RPA, Jordan 86F PSA 10. There has been only one public sale of 97 MJ Red PMG in the past 8 months compared to 8 Lebron Exquisite RPA's and 12 Brady Champ Tickets. That just shows most owners are not flipping them for profit.

[oldgoldy97]

PMGs be scammed!

What about Prizm base?

That be demand!

[Nomad]

Bonhams literarily requires you to pay them a hefty fee if your treasures don't sell. Scams only move upward in other collectable realms.

[sportsyard]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

rj, just to follow up on your post, it seems like a convoluted way to do things to me as well, but once the spark is lit, you don't need to do it any further, it will run itself. I agree, this happens across the board on things desirable. Again, Nat Turner served as the legitimizing factor for pumps back in the day, these days there are a lot of guys with tons of money and they don't mind throwing it around on cards. Anyone who has stock can repeat this over and over, it's even easier these days.

Even if the stock is depleted and the supply is dispersed into various big money buyers, it can still be done. LBJ RPA ran Bill Lee around 100k more/less, the /23 version no less (will have to double check) and all of a sudden, some no name 'buys' one for 250k? ...and then immediately after the price was fixed / bar was raised, the prices shot up dramatically. Even in the six figure range, it can be done.

If any one wants to check out what I'm talking about with regard to getting around auction houses, start at 24:50 to about 27 minutes and you will get a clear idea of how it's done. I already spoon fed it to mc1 who is silent now, but I'm sure there are others who think I'm full of crap and making things up. <--- (rj, just to be clear, this isn't directed toward you.)

And as we know, Card Ladder makes the sale a comp right away, without any proof or vetting of payment. This is so simple for a group to run together.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Here is my biggest challenge with the auction house pump argument - it is an incredibly expensive risk to take. A good pump usually needs a critical mass of sales and a decent amount of inventory to capitalize and you better be sure there is a REAL and willing buyer for the card ultimately. The PMG for a given player is a hard card to find and corner enough supply.

Ebay is a great place to shill because it's easy to walk away and never complete the sale, but that becomes harder with the bigger auction houses where pretty much all of the recent sales have occurred. If you are completing payment (which I would venture to guess does occur in most cases), even to a co-conspirator, you are giving money to the auction house and the government. For these large dollar transactions that can get up to $50K-$100K. Those types of haircuts may be acceptable in money laundering, but they are far less pallatable if you have one or two cards you are trying to move.

It seems like an incredibly inefficient route to take for profit. That said, I don't doubt there are some people out there with nefarious intent when it comes to PMGs (or any other card in the market). I just think it's unfair to paint it as the majority of the market. I follow a lot of differnet collectors on IG, and PMG posts is a small percentage of what I see, but there are a lot of people (including me) who geniunely enjoy these cards.

Let's say you have 5 copies of a super rare and iconic card -- ahem, green PMG Jordan. You want to sell 4 of them and keep 1. You want to get the absolute max dollar for them. So you start off by selling to yourself the one you're going to keep. You make sure the sale sets a new record. You pay the auction house their fee. The fee is justified because you're generating buzz for the card you're pumping and setting a new market price. Eventually you sell the other ones for real and reap the rewards.

You can swap out PMG's in this scenario for other cards that are iconic. For example, let's say you have 25 PSA 9 Jordan 86 Fleers. Maybe sell a couple to yourself at a record price. You've established the market and you're ready to sell them off.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Let's say you have 5 copies of a super rare and iconic card -- ahem, green PMG Jordan. You want to sell 4 of them and keep 1. You want to get the absolute max dollar for them. So you start off by selling to yourself the one you're going to keep. You make sure the sale sets a new record. You pay the auction house their fee. The fee is justified because you're generating buzz for the card you're pumping and setting a new market price. Eventually you sell the other ones for real and reap the rewards.

You can swap out PMG's in this scenario for other cards that are iconic. For example, let's say you have 25 PSA 9 Jordan 86 Fleers. Maybe sell a couple to yourself at a record price. You've established the market and you're ready to sell them off.

That is my point as well. Some were holding multiple copies of Jordan 86F PSA 10's, Brady Champ Tickets, Lebron Exquisite RPA's, bored ape NFT's etc. So let us not pretend that PMG Red's were the only ones that have been manipulated.

[98pmgs]

Man, can you imagine those who took the advice of others and sold their LBJ Exquisite /23 /99 for 10-15K or sold off all their MJ autos or inserts in 2015 because of wild theories.

In the end those who preach those theories-- were WRONG. It's 2022, and card prices are SIGNIFICANTLY higher then they were in 2015 and WAYYYYY higher then 2010. Time to go beat another dead horse.

But my condolences really goes out to those who sold early based on some really bad advice. Those who gave those advices. You cost people life changing money. Maybe that's why people should mind their own business.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Let's say you have 5 copies of a super rare and iconic card -- ahem, green PMG Jordan. You want to sell 4 of them and keep 1. You want to get the absolute max dollar for them. So you start off by selling to yourself the one you're going to keep. You make sure the sale sets a new record. You pay the auction house their fee. The fee is justified because you're generating buzz for the card you're pumping and setting a new market price. Eventually you sell the other ones for real and reap the rewards.

You can swap out PMG's in this scenario for other cards that are iconic. For example, let's say you have 25 PSA 9 Jordan 86 Fleers. Maybe sell a couple to yourself at a record price. You've established the market and you're ready to sell them off.

Yes I totally understand the concept and model. Again I'm not denying it can or does happen. But when you move money there are records. When you pay an auction, even if you are paying yourself, your giving money to the auction house and you are getting a 1099. You are probably giving 20% to the government not inclusive of any state considerations. You are risking all sorts of complications and tax fraud, while leaving a paper trail behind you. Now if you have someone on the inside where you don't complete those transactions, but the sale history remains that is a different story.

I just don't think that is really necessary here. Cards have been hyped to the moon over recent years. There are plenty of platforms to hype whatever you want without money exchanging hands. I don't doubt there have been fake "private sales" or shilled auctions. I just don't think fake auction house sales (I'm not talking about ebay) is the norm or preferred route to take here.

We've seen ~30 or so PMG sales (Jordan since that seems to be the example cited here) based on the data I shared +/- others that have moved privately. So lets say about a third of the copies have exchanged hands over the last 11 years, with about half of those occuring well before the explosion. A handful have sold more than once, but the volume of sales post explosion isn't notably different, so that doesn't suggest to me that people are dumping copies to unsuspecting buyers.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Yes I totally understand the concept and model. Again I'm not denying it can or does happen. But when you move money there are records. When you pay an auction, even if you are paying yourself, your giving money to the auction house and you are getting a 1099. You are probably giving 20% to the government not inclusive of any state considerations. You are risking all sorts of complications and tax fraud, while leaving a paper trail behind you. Now if you have someone on the inside where you don't complete those transactions, but the sale history remains that is a different story.

Probably going to fall on deaf ears. There are probably a few people stupid enough to play games like this, but it’s not driving the market.

Take a $120k sale after BP on PWCC. You have your buddy win it and pay. You give him $120k. You “net” $110k, and are out $10k in fees.. Your cost basis was $10k. You likely pay 20-40% tax total. So another $20-40k out of your pocket, to total $30-50k in fees and taxes that you paid to fake a $120k sale. You’re a moron.

Or you think you’re smart and you never pull the funds off PWCC, and put them into another card instead. You’ve dodged the taxes and only paid $10k to fake the sale. That’s great, because PWCC doesn’t give out 1099. You’re so awesome! Until it’s 2027, the government cracks down on people dodging taxes through auction houses, and starts requesting records from years past. Oops. Now you’re paying a penalty, interest, and the taxes you owe for your fake sale that didn’t net you anything.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Probably going to fall on deaf ears. There are probably a few people stupid enough to play games like this, but it’s not driving the market.

Take a $120k sale after BP on PWCC. You have your buddy win it and pay. You give him $120k. You “net” $110k, and are out $10k in fees.. Your cost basis was $10k. You likely pay 20-40% tax total. So another $20-40k out of your pocket, to total $30-50k in fees and taxes that you paid to fake a $120k sale. You’re a moron.

Or you think you’re smart and you never pull the funds off PWCC, and put them into another card instead. You’ve dodged the taxes and only paid $10k to fake the sale. That’s great, because PWCC doesn’t give out 1099. You’re so awesome! Until it’s 2027, the government cracks down on people dodging taxes through auction houses, and starts requesting records from years past. Oops. Now you’re paying a penalty, interest, and the taxes you owe for your fake sale that didn’t net you anything.

Or you can simply fake the sale. Win, never pay. Then get sources like CL to post the same, mark them with 5/5 confidence and show an arrow pointing to the moon.

You get the same affect but nothing changes hands. All you need is partners making the same play!! Then guys like you can sit here and say..... "Yea you should have known better and done your research blah blah blah... I knew to take the sale price with skepticism even though I talk out of both sides of my mouth and support the guys that advertise unvetted sales and claim them to be facts"

I really dont care either way. You are free to spend your money whatever you like just as you are free to be naive while doing it.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Let's say you have 5 copies of a super rare and iconic card -- ahem, green PMG Jordan. You want to sell 4 of them and keep 1. You want to get the absolute max dollar for them. So you start off by selling to yourself the one you're going to keep. You make sure the sale sets a new record. You pay the auction house their fee. The fee is justified because you're generating buzz for the card you're pumping and setting a new market price. Eventually you sell the other ones for real and reap the rewards.

You can swap out PMG's in this scenario for other cards that are iconic. For example, let's say you have 25 PSA 9 Jordan 86 Fleers. Maybe sell a couple to yourself at a record price. You've established the market and you're ready to sell them off.

Remember the paper 90s fad where people were spending hundreds and thousands on PSA graded Shaq rookies and 8th year Jordan’s? Doesn’t even have to be high end for people to run stuff up and sell off inventory they have multiples of

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Or you can simply fake the sale. Win, never pay. Then get sources like CL to post the same, mark them with 5/5 confidence and show an arrow pointing to the moon.

You get the same affect but nothing changes hands. All you need is partners making the same play!! Then guys like you can sit here and say..... "Yea you should have known better and done your research blah blah blah... I knew to take the sale price with skepticism even though I talk out of both sides of my mouth and support the guys that advertise unvetted sales and claim them to be facts"

I really dont care either way. You are free to spend your money whatever you like just as you are free to be naive while doing it.

Except that Goldin will take legal action for non-payment on a six figure card. The card usually gets re-listed by PWCC and Goldin in their next auction when it is not paid for, which is not the case with Red PMG's as seen from the sales data provided by rj.cataldo.

[AbraCalabro]

I don't think any one is making the claim that ONLY PMG cards have been pumped.

Originally Posted by mc1

You provided absolutely zero evidence of pumping for PMG reds. Zero. Youre Blowing Snow. I dont believe you. What else do you want me to say?

Did you even read the section of the post you quoted?

Originally Posted by 98pmgs

Man, can you imagine those who took the advice of others and sold their LBJ Exquisite /23 /99 for 10-15K or sold off all their MJ autos or inserts in 2015 because of wild theories.

In the end those who preach those theories-- were WRONG. It's 2022, and card prices are SIGNIFICANTLY higher then they were in 2015 and WAYYYYY higher then 2010. Time to go beat another dead horse.

But my condolences really goes out to those who sold early based on some really bad advice. Those who gave those advices. You cost people life changing money. Maybe that's why people should mind their own business.

Who are you talking to?

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Probably going to fall on deaf ears. There are probably a few people stupid enough to play games like this, but it’s not driving the market.

Take a $120k sale after BP on PWCC. You have your buddy win it and pay. You give him $120k. You “net” $110k, and are out $10k in fees.. Your cost basis was $10k. You likely pay 20-40% tax total. So another $20-40k out of your pocket, to total $30-50k in fees and taxes that you paid to fake a $120k sale. You’re a moron.

Or you think you’re smart and you never pull the funds off PWCC, and put them into another card instead. You’ve dodged the taxes and only paid $10k to fake the sale. That’s great, because PWCC doesn’t give out 1099. You’re so awesome! Until it’s 2027, the government cracks down on people dodging taxes through auction houses, and starts requesting records from years past. Oops. Now you’re paying a penalty, interest, and the taxes you owe for your fake sale that didn’t net you anything.

In that case, 'buy' it on ebay for a monster price, pay less than the actual listed price because you are colluding with the seller and friends, then hold and profit.

[98pmgs]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

I don't think any one is making the claim that ONLY PMG cards have been pumped.



Did you even read the section of the post you quoted?



Who are you talking to?

I'm talking to anybody who gave bad advice ESPECIALLY from 2010-2020 and preached to people that the market was a sham, saying all these stupid things that turned out to be super WRONG.

You don't think people sold their 90s MJ autos/inserts, LBJ exquisites RPAs based on FUD?

I'm a fact based person. MJ autos in 2010 were 300 bucks. Today they're near 10K. Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2010- WRONG.
Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2015 when they were 1000- WRONG.

It's even worst for LBJ Exquisite RPA. You had people selling at 10-20K. Now that card is 700K+. Those people cost those collectors and their families LIFE CHANGING MONEY.

THE FACTS ARE DURING THAT TIME- THEY WERE SUPER UNDERVALUED. The price today is proof.
Are they undervalued today? I have no idea man. I didn't know in 2010, I didn't know in 2015, and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I know in 2022.
I'm happy with my collection and thats that.

but seriously, 12 years later man... and people still preaching the same ol' crap.

Why can't people admit they were wrong?

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by 98pmgs

I'm talking to anybody who gave bad advice ESPECIALLY from 2010-2020 and preached to people that the market was a sham, saying all these stupid things that turned out to be super WRONG.

You don't think people sold their 90s MJ autos/inserts, LBJ exquisites RPAs based on FUD?

I'm a fact based person. MJ autos in 2010 were 300 bucks. Today they're near 10K. Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2010- WRONG.
Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2015 when they were 1000- WRONG.

It's even worst for LBJ Exquisite RPA. You had people selling at 10-20K. Now that card is 700K+. Those people cost those collectors and their families LIFE CHANGING MONEY.

12 years later man... and people still preaching the same ol' crap.

Why can't people admit they were wrong?

Were you registered here before?

The market was a sham and it got spoken into reality. I don't understand why that fact upsets people. The "people" you're referring to weren't advising people based on the intentions of price fixers and colluders who designed to alter perceptions of value.

And you mention the RPA, it's 700k now? You can thank price fixing.

Once there's movement you don't need to continue doing this stuff perpetually. It just takes one, maybe two sales, even easier today.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by 98pmgs

I'm talking to anybody who gave bad advice ESPECIALLY from 2010-2020 and preached to people that the market was a sham, saying all these stupid things that turned out to be super WRONG.

You don't think people sold their 90s MJ autos/inserts, LBJ exquisites RPAs based on FUD?

I'm a fact based person. MJ autos in 2010 were 300 bucks. Today they're near 10K. Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2010- WRONG.
Whoever said they were overvalued back in 2015 when they were 1000- WRONG.

It's even worst for LBJ Exquisite RPA. You had people selling at 10-20K. Now that card is 700K+. Those people cost those collectors and their families LIFE CHANGING MONEY.

THE FACTS ARE DURING THAT TIME- THEY WERE SUPER UNDERVALUED. The price today is proof.
Are they undervalued today? I have no idea man. I didn't know in 2010, I didn't know in 2015, and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I know in 2022.
I'm happy with my collection and thats that.

but seriously, 12 years later man... and people still preaching the same ol' crap.

Why can't people admit they were wrong?

Personally I don’t think you can ever go wrong if you are able to sell a card at a profit. Can’t worry about what happens after you sell. No one saw the ridiculous prices coming the past three years. If I had I would have bought a lot more for my
Collection 5-6 years ago had I known. People need to be accountable for their own decisions, buy, sell, or hold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[isles4life]

pump it up!!

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by isles4life

pump it up!!

holy crap, those are incredible.

are there any stupid space / comic book backgrounds on these? what year are those, I want to see the base.

edit: saw the base, not bad at all.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

In that case, 'buy' it on ebay for a monster price, pay less than the actual listed price because you are colluding with the seller and friends, then hold and profit.

Huh? Whatever the card “sells” for is what eBay is going to report on your 1099, unless payment is never made. In which case, the sale doesn’t make it to Terapeak. Although Terapeak isn’t perfect either. I see 15 BGS and PSA sales above $100k this year, and at least two of them aren’t real.

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by 98pmgs

I'm talking to anybody who gave bad advice ESPECIALLY from 2010-2020 and preached to people that the market was a sham, saying all these stupid things that turned out to be super WRONG.

No reason to admit they were wrong, the bad advice was intentional. You realize the people who were giving the bad advice were the ones buying, right? Remember when Panini first came out and there was a thread on here where people were pledging to never buy Panini? People who "pledged to never buy Panini" were buying the whole time. They just had to keep the prices down until they loaded up.

2012 Panini gold prizms are a perfect example. Notice how they exploded after a certain few people loaded up on them? It's easy to follow, just watch auctions and peoples "mail day posts". "Just got this for my PC! I've been searching for a decade!", ,then a week later "I have this for sale DM if interested". They don't even hide it anymore.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Huh? Whatever the card “sells” for is what eBay is going to report on your 1099, unless payment is never made. In which case, the sale doesn’t make it to Terapeak. Although Terapeak isn’t perfect either. I see 15 BGS and PSA sales above $100k this year, and at least two of them aren’t real.

Yes, that's the way it is NOW. Just don't forget that a couple sales, or just one is all it takes to start a trend. It doesn't have to be a constant pump for the desired result to be achieved.

The LeBron RPA fix was back in 2018, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think eBay was doing Terapeak and I don't remember exactly when they began their policy with taxes, but it's relatively recent. Couple years, so maybe 2018.

One or two verifiable transactions is all you need, even if you're buying your own item.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Yes, that's the way it is NOW. Just don't forget that a couple sales, or just one is all it takes to start a trend. It doesn't have to be a constant pump for the desired result to be achieved.

The LeBron RPA fix was back in 2018, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think eBay was doing Terapeak and I don't remember exactly when they began their policy with taxes, but it's relatively recent. Couple years, so maybe 2018.

One or two verifiable transactions is all you need, even if you're buying your own item.

Terapeak was around back in 2018. It wasn’t a public tool like it is now.

I agree you only need one sale on thinly traded cards. But my argument is that it’s difficult to accomplish and irrational in today’s high-end market.

[Blazed]

Terapeak showed eBay sales starting in 2015, it wasn't free until eBay purchased it.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Except that Goldin will take legal action for non-payment on a six figure card. The card usually gets re-listed by PWCC and Goldin in their next auction when it is not paid for, which is not the case with Red PMG's as seen from the sales data provided by rj.cataldo.

I am very confident that to date there have been non payments. Can you verify anyone that has been successfully sued in court for non payment?

I have also seen cards not paid for that didnt get relisted in the next auction. So there goes that idea that 100% of non payment auctions get auto relisted.