Yordan Alvarez - Page 213

Skippy · 07-06-2022, 10:59 AM

How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1 and his OPS is .083 higher than #2. I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his.

tyrith · 07-06-2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1 and his OPS is .083 higher than #2. I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his.

Shohei Ohtani is a big issue. Fangraphs WAR has essentially a four way tie on the pure hitters between Devers/Judge/Ramirez/Yordan with Trout just slightly behind. I think Yordan has a real chance but I woudn't call it more than 15-20% at this point.

BBases31 · 07-06-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1

He's in a 3 way tie for 3rd and barely above Trout who's #6. As a DH he's got to blow away the other position players to get it

Quote:

and his OPS is .083 higher than #2.

It's 2022 not 2002

Quote:

I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his.

Yikes

mrmojorisin71 · 07-06-2022, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBases31

He's in a 3 way tie for 3rd and barely above Trout who's #6. As a DH he's got to blow away the other position players to get it

It's 2022 not 2002

Yikes

He’s not a full time dh. Half of his games are in left field. Let’s be real clear on that.

Bambino22 · 07-06-2022, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1 and his OPS is .083 higher than #2. I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his.

I like your post!

tyrith · 07-06-2022, 11:30 AM

WAR accounts for him being a DH. If you want to look at traditional stats, yes, being mostly a DH would require him to be ahead. He leads the league in slugging percentage by over 40 points and is 2nd in OBP. He's got 50 points of OBP on Judge, 40 on Trout and Ramirez, 30 on Devers. That's enough it's a pretty real argument on a position adjusted basis.

Crazy thing is that Fangraphs still has him as underperforming the quality of his contact. His expected batting average leads the league by 30 points! Even if his contact regresses some in the second half he might be able to maintain his average.

JRX · 07-06-2022, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1 and his OPS is .083 higher than #2. I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his.

Looks like someone uses bbref and not fangraphs. Yordan is 4th in fwar in the AL.

fulltritty · 07-06-2022, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmojorisin71

He’s not a full time dh. Half of his games are in left field. Let’s be real clear on that.

And yet Judge and Devers have already played over twice as many games in the field than Alvarez.

mrmojorisin71 · 07-06-2022, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fulltritty

And yet Judge and Devers have already played over twice as many games in the field than Alvarez.

Devers has also contributed 11 errors. The point is, he’s not just a DH. You can’t not acknowledge that.

JRX · 07-06-2022, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fulltritty

And yet Judge and Devers have already played over twice as many games in the field than Alvarez.

Judge has over 40 games in center field. We will see what happens the rest of the year, but if its close I don't think Judge will lose the mvp to another astro.

BBases31 · 07-06-2022, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmojorisin71

He’s not a full time dh. Half of his games are in left field. Let’s be real clear on that.

He's played the majority of his games at DH and he has horrendous defense when he's actually in LF. He is at -3 OAA in 32 games in LF. If you extrapolated that to the 80 games the Astros have played, that -7.5 OAA would put him as the worst defensive outfielder in all of baseball

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrith

WAR accounts for him being a DH.

But voters penalize DH's extra beyond the WAR adjustment, that's the other problem Yordan has for the MVP race.

Quote:

Crazy thing is that Fangraphs still has him as underperforming the quality of his contact. His expected batting average leads the league by 30 points! Even if his contact regresses some in the second half he might be able to maintain his average.

His xBA(and xwOBA) is always going to lag more than other players because he's slow and the x stats are an average of the entire league. Players with below average speed will have lower real outcomes than the average. Additionally there is lag this year in the xstats because of the deadened ball this season. League wide the wOBA vs xwOBA this year is .310 to .329. So .019 of lag is the baseline, and you can expect slower runners to lag even more

jhssketchcards · 07-06-2022, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrith

WAR accounts for him being a DH. If you want to look at traditional stats, yes, being mostly a DH would require him to be ahead. He leads the league in slugging percentage by over 40 points and is 2nd in OBP. He's got 50 points of OBP on Judge, 40 on Trout and Ramirez, 30 on Devers. That's enough it's a pretty real argument on a position adjusted basis.

Crazy thing is that Fangraphs still has him as underperforming the quality of his contact. His expected batting average leads the league by 30 points! Even if his contact regresses some in the second half he might be able to maintain his average.

Add the fact Alvarez is 32 points higher than Judge and only 14 behind Devers and it will get interesting

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SupermanBrandon · 07-06-2022, 12:07 PM

Voters carry a lot of bias! Give it to a guy pitching and hitting at elite levels or give to the guy playing over half of his games at DH?

Onepocketj · 07-06-2022, 12:16 PM

So glad I have bbases blocked. He contributes nothing to this thread. Just wish people would stop quoting him.

oldgoldy97 · 07-06-2022, 12:23 PM

Just plan the MVP to go to an Angel. That’s the only thing they’ll ever win. I’m sure Yordan will be satisfied playing deep into the postseason again.

Redsmitty03 · 07-06-2022, 12:24 PM

Michael Brantley plays LF. Let’s not overlook the fact that this is the reason he plays half his games as a DH and half in LF. It’s part of the good problem the Astros have with Tucker and Meyers taking the other two OF spots.

fulltritty · 07-06-2022, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

Judge has over 40 games in center field. We will see what happens the rest of the year, but if its close I don't think Judge will lose the mvp to another astro.

41 CF, 35 RF, and 11 DH.

clocsta2323 · 07-06-2022, 12:47 PM

Vegas knows what they are doing. I think if votes had to be cast today Judge would be close to unanimous

jhssketchcards · 07-06-2022, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Voters carry a lot of bias! Give it to a guy pitching and hitting at elite levels or give to the guy playing over half of his games at DH?

Alvarez, Judge, Devers are hitting at elite levels. Ohtani is below .260, under .350 OBA, below .500 SLG and under .900 OPS. That’s not elite hitting. It’s very good, but not elite

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BBases31 · 07-06-2022, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

So glad I have bbases blocked. He contributes nothing to this thread.

And you're obviously still clicking on view post to read what I say despite having me on block

JRX · 07-06-2022, 12:58 PM

They all have around the same total war, again decimals are essentially useless for arguing who was better. The fact that there's 4 guys hitting at around the same level, 5 if you count Trout vs only 1 guy doing what Ohtani is doing. If you add in the NL there's several more guys having great hitting seasons vs again 1 guy doing what Ohtani is doing.

BGeezy · 07-06-2022, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Voters carry a lot of bias! Give it to a guy pitching and hitting at elite levels or give to the guy playing over half of his games at DH?

Funny how you try to frame things in the most positive light for Ohtani (not an elite hitter no matter how you try to frame it) and then say the most negative thing for Yordan.

Here's your BS right back at you:

Give it to the guy who is the best hitter in baseball or an above-average DH who pitches 5 innings once a week?

EDIT: Before the Ohtani fanbois try to jump down my throat, I'm just making a point about how the quoted poster clearly demonstrates his bias.

JRX · 07-06-2022, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGeezy

Funny how you try to frame things in the most positive light for Ohtani (not an elite hitter no matter how you try to frame it) and then say the most negative thing for Yordan.

Here's your BS right back at you:

Give it to the guy who is the best hitter in baseball or an above-average DH who pitches 5 innings once a week?

Show me another DH that can throw 1 inning a season? Also, that not elite hitter has a 137 OPS+ and a 147 ERA+. There are 12 hitters in baseball within 1 fWar of each other starting with Machado. There's only 1 guy in all of baseball who can hit and pitch. Nobody is going to stop you from continuing to make a fool of yourself. Maybe take out some of that anger on a trash can.

BGeezy · 07-06-2022, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

Show me another DH that can throw 1 inning a season? Also, that not elite hitter has a 137 OPS+ and a 147 ERA+. There are 12 hitters in baseball within 1 fWar of each other starting with Machado. There's only 1 guy in all of baseball who can hit and pitch. Nobody is going to stop you from continuing to make a fool of yourself. Maybe take out some of that anger on a trash can.

Only an idiot would read my post and not realize I was demonstrating the fallacy of SB's wording.

Oh -- and I'm not an Astros fan. Looks like you're the only one making a fool of themselves.

jhssketchcards · 07-06-2022, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRX

Show me another DH that can throw 1 inning a season? Also, that not elite hitter has a 137 OPS+ and a 147 ERA+. There are 12 hitters in baseball within 1 fWar of each other starting with Machado. There's only 1 guy in all of baseball who can hit and pitch. Nobody is going to stop you from continuing to make a fool of yourself. Maybe take out some of that anger on a trash can.

Serious question then, are you saying Ohtani should get MVP every year he does this? I just don’t see him getting unanimous votes this year, and that’s saying a lot. I get that what he does is special, but even if Ohtani were .500 WP would that mean he still is deserving since no one else does it? He won’t win CY Award this year (like last year) so why should his pitching be lumped in with his hitting? Last year I get it, he was amazing offensively. So far he’s been great this year but not elite batting. If Trout gets hot again and goes on a month or two month hot streak, Ohtani will not take MVP votes from Trout. If we’re going to punish Alvarez for being a part time DH in MVP voting, then Ohtani is out as a full time DH. I know he pitches but to me his pitching is eligible for CY consideration, but he won’t win that since he’s penalized (in my opinion) by voters for not being a full time pitcher. Just an opinion though.

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07-06-2022, 10:59 AM	#5301
Skippy Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: CA Posts: 336	How is Yordan not AL MVP? His WAR is #1 and his OPS is .083 higher than #2. I got in at 20 to 1 odds and revisited them again last week at 10-1 odds. Barring injury, it should be his. __________________ Looking for: Jack Hughes FWA PSA 10, Erling Haaland Bundesliga Refractor PSA 10, Tiger Woods 2001 UD BGS 10.

07-06-2022, 12:24 PM	#5316
Redsmitty03 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: TX Posts: 8,583 Redsmitty03 Redsmitty03	Michael Brantley plays LF. Let’s not overlook the fact that this is the reason he plays half his games as a DH and half in LF. It’s part of the good problem the Astros have with Tucker and Meyers taking the other two OF spots. __________________ Instagram: smittys_cards

07-06-2022, 11:30 AM	#5306
tyrith Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 1,886 tyrith	WAR accounts for him being a DH. If you want to look at traditional stats, yes, being mostly a DH would require him to be ahead. He leads the league in slugging percentage by over 40 points and is 2nd in OBP. He's got 50 points of OBP on Judge, 40 on Trout and Ramirez, 30 on Devers. That's enough it's a pretty real argument on a position adjusted basis. Crazy thing is that Fangraphs still has him as underperforming the quality of his contact. His expected batting average leads the league by 30 points! Even if his contact regresses some in the second half he might be able to maintain his average.

07-06-2022, 12:07 PM	#5313
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,843	Voters carry a lot of bias! Give it to a guy pitching and hitting at elite levels or give to the guy playing over half of his games at DH?

07-06-2022, 12:16 PM	#5314
Onepocketj Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 22,077 jeflave-0 onepocketj	So glad I have bbases blocked. He contributes nothing to this thread. Just wish people would stop quoting him.

07-06-2022, 12:23 PM	#5315
oldgoldy97 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 49,848	Just plan the MVP to go to an Angel. That’s the only thing they’ll ever win. I’m sure Yordan will be satisfied playing deep into the postseason again.

07-06-2022, 12:47 PM	#5318
clocsta2323 Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: D.C. Posts: 6,841	Vegas knows what they are doing. I think if votes had to be cast today Judge would be close to unanimous

07-06-2022, 12:58 PM	#5321
JRX Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 15,474	They all have around the same total war, again decimals are essentially useless for arguing who was better. The fact that there's 4 guys hitting at around the same level, 5 if you count Trout vs only 1 guy doing what Ohtani is doing. If you add in the NL there's several more guys having great hitting seasons vs again 1 guy doing what Ohtani is doing.