BGS thoughts and advice - Do subgrades matter?

[steg22]

I'm looking for some honest opinions and here are my questions:

If you saw a BGS 9.5 card for sale that you are interested in, would it matter to you whether or not the slab included subgrades?

Would a card graded BGS 9.5 without subgrades have less value than one WITH subgrades?

[speedyjg13]

A BGS without subgrades has a lower value than a BGS slab with the identical overall grade but with subgrades

[akarlen]

Yes
Yes. The assumption I make is that it is min-graded (9.5x3, 9.0). True Gems that may cross as PSA 10's will carry a premium. Even better are the 9.5x2 10.0x2 near 10's.

[Mister2Bits]

The sub grades are the defining feature, if you remove them the service is less valuable.

The only time this doesn't matter is if you're buying the card, not the slab.

[ThoseBackPages]

i agree with the others.

a sub-less BGS slab is a card that was submitted with the hopes of sliding one past the goalie

[HOFAutoRookies]

Big difference in price between and quad 9.5+ versus the unknown. People look to crossover with subgrades

[comicbooksgo]

Always do sub grades. That $5 is easily made up if/when you sell. Like others have said, the common assumption is that a no sub grade 9.5 is a min, and will sell like one.

[eastbayak]

Personally, I wouldn't care about the subgrades of a BGS 9.5 because I'd know all subgrades are at least a 9. But I should mention that my standards are lower than others, for instance, I have a BGS 8 in my PC.

From a buying perspective, I'd assume a BGS 9.5 WITHOUT subgrades has less value than one WITH subgrades because you're dealing with uncertainty (former) vs. certainty (latter). Buyers generally assume the worst possible combination for one without subgrades (9 centering, 9.5s everything else).

[kaisersoze]

i have had 0 issues selling cards with no sub grades in BGS cases. and i would argue they could sell for more.

one example specifically, a 9 that has an 8.5 sub grade will definitely give pause to a buyer compared to a 9 without subs.

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by steg22

If you saw a BGS 9.5 card for sale that you are interested in, would it matter to you whether or not the slab included subgrades?

Yes.

If there are no subgrades on a BGS 9.5, I'm considering it a min-gem with '9' corners, ie; worst case scenario. I'm expecting no better than PSA-9 quality and I'm paying below BGS-9.5 true-gem. Probably hoping for below PSA-9 pricing, but I don't buy BGS 9.5 with no subgrades, so I don't know if that's realistic. It would depend on the card. I know the resale on them isn't good, so it's either just a card I want, it's selling WAY too cheap, or the scan/photo makes it look like it could be true-gem quality or better and maybe I'd crack it out. I can't recall ever owning a BGS slab with no subgrades, though, so this is just opinion / speculation.

Would a card graded BGS 9.5 without subgrades have less value than one WITH subgrades?

Maybe.

If the one with subgrades has '9' corners and I can see they're bad, then a no-subgrades 9.5 might actually look to be in better condition. I'm thinking something like a 2018 Topps Update US300 Juan Soto Gold parallel. The top two corners show white very easily, and a '9' corners 9.5 might have white tips on the top corners. A 9.5 no-subgrades could look better, and so it might have similar value or even higher value.

If it's a comparison of two Chrome cards; one has all 9.5 subgrades (true gem), and one has no subgrades, I have to consider the no-subgrades to have a '9' surface (worst case scenario) and would value it lower. But if the one with subs is min-gem with '9' surface, they're about even for me. If you could get a discount on the no-subs compared to the '9' surface card, there's no risk and you might get a true-gem quality card.

I think almost always a no-subgrades 9.5 is valued lower than a true-gem (so, with subs). But if it's 9.5 no-subs vs. 9.5 min-gem, and the '9' is on corners or surface, it's about even for me. I don't wish to own either because there's a chance I want to sell it at some point, and they are less desirable than true gem.

[oddstuff]

No sub BGS cards were pushed by BGS to try to get more cards out the door but to me, that's the one thing that made their cards stand out from others. No sub BGS cards are a big step down from with subs. It's tempting to use no subs with the lower price point and quicker turnaround, but you get what you pay for.

[GOATMJ]

Sub-Grades ABSOLUTELY matter.

[AwesomeBrian]

No subs = no sale

[GOATMJ]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

No subs = no sale

Not necessarily true.

I bought a Non-Sub BGS 9.5 Michael Jordan Rare 90's insert for a good price. Sent it in to BGS to add Sub-Grades and it came back as a True Gem. Flipped it for quite a lot more than what I bought it for.

At least you know BGS will honor that BGS 9.5 grade and the worse you can get is a minimum gem. Upside is a True Gem Plus+.

[cardsin47]

Even if it doesn’t matter to you as a potential buyer / present card owner, you will reduce the number of interested buyers when you go to sell, and will be looking at a lower sales price regardless. A BGS 9.5 without subgrades has a “what are you hiding?” implication, even if that’s not the case

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Even if it doesn’t matter to you as a potential buyer / present card owner, you will reduce the number of interested buyers when you go to sell, and will be looking at a lower sales price regardless. A BGS 9.5 without subgrades has a “what are you hiding?” implication, even if that’s not the case

YES 100%



I don't buy BGS cards without subs.

[Archangel1775]

Yes, particularly when people want to crossover

[trendy26]

I won’t buy a BGS card if it doesn’t have sub grades. I think it’s dumb to save a couple bucks by not getting subs. Just my opinion though.

[majestik101]

Sub Grades without a doubt matter to me. Personally, I love having them on the flip, takes all the guesswork out of the equation when it comes time to sell.

[rwperu34]

I don't even include no subgrade BGS cards in my price index. I think they go for less than even a "min" 9.5.

[DetroitTN]

I think all companies owe an explanation on grades, with the 4 subgrades being the logical way of doing so

[blaze]

I prefer the no subgrades slabs, I’ll even get them removed on PC cards. As for those saying any card without subs means it’s a min gem… you do realize the cost is half for getting no subs?

[blaze]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

I don't even include no subgrade BGS cards in my price index. I think they go for less than even a "min" 9.5.

Why would they sell for less than min gem? At WORST they are min gem.

[SpartanWarrior]

At this point, BGS is basically no longer relevant. Their slabs will sell at a substantial discount to PSA and SGC and perhaps even CSG.

Perhaps on some ultra modern cards folks will look at subgrades with the thought to resubmitting to PSA but for anything else why send to BGS?

Beckett is cooked.

[GMRide27]

Originally Posted by SpartanWarrior

At this point, BGS is basically no longer relevant.
Beckett is cooked.

I’d take BGS 9.5 over a PSA 9 any day.