Shill bidding so out of hand

[rogueriver]

The shill bidding is getting out of hand anymore. Here is a prime example eBay item number 374047647651
I’ve been on this 3 times and keep getting outbid and then the item gets resisted if you look at the closed items of this card you will see 3 times it has closed and each time the same bidder one and then it was resisted within 24hr and the winning bidder happens to be the same with 100% bids with this seller.Not to mention bidding on sever more of his items yet again... makes me wonder how over inflated this actual mark is considering EVERY SELLER GETS THIER COMP PRICING FROM 8NFLATED NUMBERS....

[OneSickDegen]

Welcome to the post stimmy check Ebay world, bruh...

[rogueriver]

It just seems like it is so out of hand people aren’t even hiding it anymore, the scary thing is that every seller uses eBay to determine the market price. So when you go buy a card and you look at comps that are inflated you are paying a higher price than what it is worth...

[OneSickDegen]

The market will correct itself. It may take some time, but will correct. Also it's something Ebay is absolutely aware of and it's definitely within their means to mitigate. They can force people to pay immediately or ban users for nonpayment and remove the listings from historical record. This isn't rocket surgery.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by OneSickDegen

They can force people to pay immediately or ban users for nonpayment and remove the listings from historical record.

Lol. Yeah...thats not going to happen. That would cut into their future profits.

[OneSickDegen]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

That would cut into their future profits.

So would people refusing to use their platform.

[rogueriver]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Lol. Yeah...thats not going to happen. That would cut into their future profits.

Yep exactly which is why eBay don’t crack down on them more, they also have a vested interest in higher prices....I truly wonder where prices would be without shilling.....I bet 10-20 percent lower across the board maybe even lower. Ironically they got rid of PWCC for this and it has gotten even worse since then

[rogueriver]

Originally Posted by OneSickDegen

So would people refusing to use their platform.

The problem is even worse outside eBay......not to mention if you buy at shows or shop they sell and price based on EBAY comps

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by rogueriver

Yep exactly which is why eBay don’t crack down on them more, they also have a vested interest in higher prices....I truly wonder where prices would be without shilling.....I bet 10-20 percent lower across the board maybe even lower. Ironically they got rid of PWCC for this and it has gotten even worse since then

That's not WHY they got rid of PWCC. Publicly, sure...but behind the scenes it was because PWCC wouldn't partner w/ them on a their vault. If eBay truly cared about shill bidding as they say...ole "Slick Rick" Probstein would've been booted years ago.

[tconte]

I’ve noticed a bunch of the same auctions getting relisted after supposedly selling for a big number.


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[OneSickDegen]

Most people are impatient. I have just kept searches going and waiting it out seems like the play as there are favorable deals to be had. Even if they're few and far between.

[JoeAdam]

This is why I consign all my auctions with DCSports87. They guarantee payment for all items under $500. If my $30 card gets shilled like crazy I still get paid.

[DynaEtch]

It’s a shame eBay doesn’t seem to want to crack down on this more. As mentioned it really isn’t a hard fix at the very least to not show canceled/unpaid sales under sold listings to prevent fake comps.

In another thread (about fake Griffey tiffany traded rcs), it was pointed out to eBay that some guy not only bid and won his own auction, but then left positive feedback, while the item was unpaid (verifiable by them). You’d think that would be a devastating infraction to an account, so blatantly messing with the integrity of an auction bidding on his own items and leaving himself feedback (not to mention selling a steady stream of fake Griffey Tiffany RCs), itd be immediate removal/suspension…but nah. They did remove the fake feedback, but looks like the account is still an active user, and I’m suspecting it’ll stay that way: eBay just doesn’t do much.

[StateEx]

It's been a bit hard, but I dropped my eBay account over this (plus the amount of trimmed cards). I'd rather buy less, but do it in person.

[overboosted]

the amount of posts about shill bidding so out of hand

also ebay will never do anything about it because it makes them more money in general

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by rogueriver

It just seems like it is so out of hand people aren’t even hiding it anymore, the scary thing is that every seller uses eBay to determine the market price. So when you go buy a card and you look at comps that are inflated you are paying a higher price than what it is worth...

EBay never intended to become a stock market, many of its policies were specifically created with this in mind.

For that matter, attempting to treat a hobby like a stock market will inevitably produce the kinds of problems like we’re seeing here…and many others.

[rwperu34]

The first step is to quit refunding the final value fee. I mean maybe give them a pass the first time, but if the same item keeps not getting paid for a 10% hit every time and the practice will end quickly.

[doowopbruce]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

The first step is to quit refunding the final value fee. I mean maybe give them a pass the first time, but if the same item keeps not getting paid for a 10% hit every time and the practice will end quickly.

Don't they already have to pay a % if their bid wins?

[Archangel1775]

Just dont bid anymore. I realized I was setting the majority of the prices on many if the 2020 Finest Flashback Refractors. I just stopped bidding and the market for most them corrected. For some that I knew were being shilled , those dropped 50% or more.

[CollectKep26]

Originally Posted by JoeAdam

This is why I consign all my auctions with DCSports87. They guarantee payment for all items under $500. If my $30 card gets shilled like crazy I still get paid.

And on the buyers end, you never really know if you're going to get your card from DCSports87 or if it will have a shipping label made then never ship. Makes for an exciting experience.

[allstarauction]

This may have been said already, but from conversations with friends and some of my recent experience over the last year, it isn't the seller shilling. There are clearly people who have money invested in cards/players that are bidding stuff up to give the appearance of a higher market than it is, then not paying.

If you stop giving seller FVF's back for non-payment then I would never auction due to the amount of NPB's I get when I do auction. It is at least 10-15% when I sell nicer PSA cards, less on the cheaper stuff.

The fix is easy for Ebay, just require a payment method when placing a bid. They have been reluctant to do so, so this isn't going to stop.

[rutgersjpm]

eBay doesn't want to fix the problem. Actually, they're facilitating the problem. Now that you can sort auctions by "highest bid", eBay is essentially telling you how much higher your item can go. It's insanity.

[MegaMan]

This is all anecdotal and just my thoughts on the matter, but as far as the "sports cards as investments / pandemic boom" era goes, I think we'll eventually look back and realize this time period now is right about the beginning of the end (or, if not the end, at least a major nosedive).

I have a few items with an eBay consigner right now. One in particular - hot card, hot player, 4 figures - is now heading for its third listing cycle because twice unpaid. These aren't fake accounts - the "winning" bidders both have over 500 positive feedback. Second listing went 20% + over the first. Third? Who knows - I'm kinda guessing a big haircut from the second. Don't even really care anymore, just someone pay something, someday.

I'm getting the vibe that the house of cards is about to come crashing down. The term shill bidding is thrown around so casually now (here, on twitter, etc) nobody even is really talking about the same thing anymore. It can mean someone bidding up their own item, or someone bidding up an item for a guy they "invest in" or collect, or someone bidding up an item that's similar to an unrelated (but for the similarity) listing they have an interest in, or any "unusual bidding pattern" whatsoever, whatever that means. PONZI VIBES.

And while some may counter that we're still well above pre-pandemic pricing/valuations, sure okay, but trading cards/collectibles is a much flimsier market overall than even our own stock market (or crypto, for that matter). PANIC COMING? Place your bets, bidding starts now...

[Randallk34]

This is why I dont buy anything from those shady card auction companies using ebay

[ucLAkers]

This is a real thread in the Baseball forum? Is this 2005…?… because if so my brain cant handle any more groundhog days…..