eBay user: Jennpa_7399 & The Fake 1989 Topps Traded Tiffany Ken Griffey Jr

[DragonWagon]

Ebay user jennpa_7399 is altering regular 1989 Topps Traded cards and fraudulently selling them as 1989 Topps Traded Tiffany cards. He has sold almost $10K worth of fake cards and continues to list more for sale.

What is a 1989 Tiffany Topps Traded card? Tiffany cards were complete sets released by Topps from 1984-1991. They were printed on better card stock, with high gloss fronts, and printed in limited quantities. This makes them much more valuable compared to regular Topps and traded cards released in the same year. For more information on Tiffany cards, checkout www.tiffanycards.com

This is a link to the card I purchased on 4/10: https://www.ebay.com/itm/31395076122...p2047675.l2557

I did not receive the card in the pictures, instead I received the card below:


Evidence
There are 4 things wrong with the card that will show it is fake.
1. The card smells of chemicals/paint. Unfortunately, I have no way to show or measure that.

2. The added gloss on the card makes the card too thick. Using a micrometer, I measured the thickness of a regular traded card, Tiffany traded card, and this fake card.



3. The card stock on the fake is identical to that of a regular traded card and not a Tiffany card. The fake is in the middle of 2 Tiffany cards and the outside cards are regular traded cards.


I then did some research, using his feedback profile, to see if I could find if he previously purchased the card unaltered as a regular traded card. His masked buyer ID e***p


After searching through all of his received feedback, I found it! Here is a link to the original unaltered card. It is the card on the right.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29484476894...p2047675.l2557

4. Once, I found the card unaltered. I was able to match unique characteristics with the unaltered card with the fake card he sold me. The best unique qualifier is the top right corner, if you zoom in you can see the exact same indentation on both cards. I then found several other matching unique markings on the front and back.


Finally, to ensure that this card was indeed purchased by jennpa_7399, I reached out to the original seller, who confirmed that jennpa_7399 did purchase the card.



Jennpa_7399 continues to list and sell these cards. So far I suspect he has sold 37 fake cards with a total value of $10,257.39 He has also made purchases of hundreds of Topps Traded cards, and I believe he plans on continuing to make them into fakes.

He has also sold cards graded by SGC and used Ebay Authenticity, which leads me to believe that these could be getting by the grading companies- which could easily turn these into $2K-10K cards.


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[NYRE2PECT]

Nothing is surpising in this hobby (commercial enterprise) anymore....great detective work, and hopefully he will get shut down.

[corndog]

Excellent work in locating the actual base card that he purchased!
The chipping matches confirm it 100%.

Very enlightening.

[DragonWagon]

Originally Posted by corndog

Excellent work in locating the actual base card that he purchased!
The chipping matches confirm it 100%.

Very enlightening.

Thanks, I learned from observing the over 1,800 cards that I have logged from your posts!

[Emergency Donut]

Wow, despicable. Great detective work, and thank you for sharing.

[3124508 on COMC]

I wouldn’t have even tried to match a unique 89 Traded Griffey, so kudos there. Extremely lucky on that.

[LCM1223]

Who fakes a 1989 base card

[MoreToppsPlease]

Send it to PSA so they can slab it.

[DragonWagon]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

I wouldn’t have even tried to match a unique 89 Traded Griffey, so kudos there. Extremely lucky on that.

Yup, the guy got greedy and sent me a low grade one because my purchase price was lower than his others. So, that made it easier to look for unique characteristics.

[pinnacle06]

*nevermind*

[cowboyzqna]

Hate to see scum moves like this...but love to see mics being used in my hobby. I use them everyday at work so that was kinda neat to see.

[DynaEtch]

This seller has come up before, in the Ebay Authentication thread.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...4#post18020844

We know that Ebay Authentication did catch this example, so hopefully they would catch it in general. For people wondering about why the AG program is useful, here is a case.

Back when that post came up, I messaged the seller questioning their clearly re-used photos in several listings of theirs (same photos, of the same 89 "Tiffany" Ken Griffey Jr card with identifiable marks, used for sold cards, active listings, etc).....they gave some bs response or other. I made sure to report the seller, which Im sure doesnt do much.

This post puts it beyond all doubt imo about what's really going on here...beyond just using duplicated photos. Good work.

The first red flag for me after seeing the post in the other thread was the seller seemed to coincidentally have lots of 1989 Topps Traded Tiffany's for sale....multiple sold listings and active auctions. Pretty strange itself. That and the fact the seller continued to sell the same card after it was known that it was rejected by AG as if nothing happened = super shady.

Edit: looking at the seller's sold listings and feedback (which is basically 89 Tiffany Griffey after 89 Tiffany Griffey), I do not see any evidence of one getting past AG...i.e. any of the several positives left (many people, when it didnt go through AG, seemed to have been duped and left postives) correspond to AG qualifying listings. I do see an example of the seller very coincidentally selling one at 349.99 obo on 4/11, at which time the threshold for AG was 350. *If* that SGC 10 was not legit, which admittedly we dont know for sure, this is giving me more confidence in CSG than SGC, considering apparently these dont seem to be passing through Ebay authentication. What a joke though for all those sales of 89 "Tiffany" griffeys, many not going through AG because only like $200-300ish. At least the threshold lowered to 250 will make it even harder for this scam to continue. As will that latest negative feedback left declaring the card a fake.

[DragonWagon]

I was skeptical as well, which is why I repeatedly asked about it. Ok so maybe he had 9, unlikely, but possible. Then he listed and sold 10, 11, 12…. I knew something was as wrong and I had to find out what it was, so I bought one.



Once I received the card, I messaged him my concerns. He didn’t hesitate to suggest to send it out to get authenticated. He also sold and used his sgc 9 & 10 examples in his listings to legitimize them. Which leads me to suspect that he may have gotten these passed by the graders.


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[Rooftop]

Nice work BODA Jr.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by LCM1223

Who fakes a 1989 base card

From the context clues in the OP, it looks like eBay userJennpa_7399 does. There could be more but this should answer your question.

[DynaEtch]

The SGC 9 and 10 are concerning. I could see either: the seller went out of his way to buy these then resell them just to add legitness to all this (doubtful), or maybe more likely, they are fake cards in those slabs (someone paid >$2k for the 10).

In the latter case, does this mean Topps Traded Tiffany Griffeys are now questionable? I give credit to CSG for catching this as a fake card when from the looks of it, it's possible fake ones go through other grading companies. But I just wonder if Tiffany's in general are getting into dangerous territory when apparently they just have the gloss and enough of these seem to have convinced the buyers in this guy's feedback- people who didnt study the card as much as OP did. Those buyer could then resell those griffeys to other buyers down the road, assuming it doesnt go through AG, and it becomes a mess.

Also thanks ebay, for not taking my earlier reporting of the seller seriously at all apparently in Feb, allowing what appears to be a clear scam to continue and several more buyers getting duped over multiple hundred dollar cards. It makes you wonder where things go from here. This should really be looked into with the amount of money being made.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by LCM1223

Who fakes a 1989 base card

Apparently someone looking to make $10k, based on the info from the OP. Look at completed sales from this seller, and the money made in sales from this.

[Archangel1775]

A can of spray gloss at Wal-Mart $12.98
A 10 card lot of regular Griffey Topps Traded Rookies $50
An hour of work $15
A month of ebay sales $10,000

[DragonWagon]

In the latter case, does this mean Topps Traded Tiffany Griffeys are now questionable?

They have always been questionable, especially in a slab. However, if you know what to look for, then it’s not a problem. The problem is educating collectors that are not aware of what a Tiffany card really is. That’s why I made a step-by-step interactive guide to help them. https://www.tiffanycards.com/how-to-...s-tiffany-card


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[callou2131]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

In the latter case, does this mean Topps Traded Tiffany Griffeys are now questionable?

They have always been questionable, especially in a slab. However, if you know what to look for, then it’s not a problem. The problem is educating collectors that are not aware of what a Tiffany card really is. That’s why I made a step-by-step interactive guide to help them. https://www.tiffanycards.com/how-to-...s-tiffany-card


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In a slab it would be next to impossible to tell. No smell, cant check the thickness, and really cant see the edge well nor compare it to another card. Surprisingly he has no cards listed now. Must have been tipped off.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

In the latter case, does this mean Topps Traded Tiffany Griffeys are now questionable?

They have always been questionable, especially in a slab. However, if you know what to look for, then it’s not a problem. The problem is educating collectors that are not aware of what a Tiffany card really is. That’s why I made a step-by-step interactive guide to help them. https://www.tiffanycards.com/how-to-...s-tiffany-card


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Originally Posted by callou2131

In a slab it would be next to impossible to tell. No smell, cant check the thickness, and really cant see the edge well nor compare it to another card. Surprisingly he has no cards listed now. Must have been tipped off.

Nice user friendly site. Im no expert on Tiffany since Im not as much a baseball collector, but it does look like the only difference for an 89 Traded Tiffany is the glossy feel, since both on white card stock and otherwise the same. If that glossy feel can be somewhat replicated, presumably in this case lots of these sold listings fooling buyers from the looks of the positive feedback, then yea that's an issue. What I'd be concerned about is it may even be fooling graders, at least at SCG *if* those are fake cards in those slabs, they should know what to look for you'd think. Reminds me of those Star Jordan RCs and how some wont grade them, perhaps they shouldnt here.

I also see the seller doesnt have any current listings, but we'll see. That latest negative feedback will make selling these, at least on that account, a whole lot harder.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

The question is now are all Tiffany cards under the microscope not just Griffey.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

The question is now are all Tiffany cards under the microscope not just Griffey.

The Traded Tiffanys probably should be at least, since those seem to be the troublesome ones. Probably not as much an issue with the regular set/tiffany regular set due to different card stock and other identifiable indicators.

[soey10]

I have a Griffey from a set I purchased years ago and since has been graded a 9 by PSA and this is troubling news for that may put doubt in peoples eyes about buying these in the future.

Awesome work on uncovering this lying scumbags operation and outing him.


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[salas1991]

I love how the guy says his grandfather left him all those sets. Nothing like trying to go the sentimentality route to try to legitimize something that's clearly not.