Trade Deadline thread

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by bloodwings19

If Hield wasn't included in the deal, Kings would never do the trade. Hield is like Eric Gordon, without key pieces he can't succeed. Look for Rockets to untie Gordon and maybe J.Wall.

Every team in the league would be happy to take Hield if it meant getting Haliburton

[rseve43]

Sabonis has always been criminally underrated (and his cards criminally undervalued). He is still only 25, plays his ass off every night, and is one of four guys in NBA history to average 20/12/6 in a season.

He deserves better than the kings…this feels like Kevin Love in Minnesota putting up monster stats in front of no one without much of a shot at contention.

Sabonis is the best player in this deal today, but no question given team control situation, Haliburton is the best asset looking big picture. Why would the kings do this when they’re nowhere near contending?

[hanstess]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

It feels like you’re trying to convince yourself that this is a good trade when it isn’t.

I'm looking at it as they needed to do something to shake up this roster. Alot of individual talent but haven't been competitive in years. Pretty sure Bagley will be dealt also by tomorrow and we'll see in a year or two if this helps or not.

[bloodwings19]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Every team in the league would be happy to take Hield if it meant getting Haliburton

Every team can find a PG, but not every team can find a poor man's Luka in Sabonis at 6'11 at age 25. I really don't know who the PG is for the Denver Nuggets, but I know Jokic is pretty good and I think they are still better than the Lakers. Big men with passing and shooting skills are hard to find.

[Pathora]

Sabonis is a really poor mans Jokic. He puts up somewhat similar type of stats but doesn't have the size or consistent shooting. He gets abused on defense easier and offensively is left hand dominant to a fault. Teams in the playoffs were easily able to make him much less effective.

I don't love the fit of Haliburton w/ Brogdon and Duarte for the Pacers but still feel the trade had to be made.

[TSonn]

Where will TRoss and Gary Harris end up? Orlando has to be dealing those guys right? Then they'll finally bring back Fultz and Isaac who are "injured".

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by bloodwings19

Every team can find a PG, but not every team can find a poor man's Luka in Sabonis at 6'11 at age 25. I really don't know who the PG is for the Denver Nuggets, but I know Jokic is pretty good and I think they are still better than the Lakers. Big men with passing and shooting skills are hard to find.

Sabonis isn't a needle mover.

[DiamondDonovan]

Originally Posted by Pathora

Sabonis is a really poor mans Jokic.

Perfect way to describe Sabonis...puts up monster numbers for fantasy bball teams but I think his stats make him out to be a better player then he is.

Leaves Myles Turner to now play with Richaun Holmes...another rim protector. But let's see if this move can help Sacramento make the play-in spot.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by DiamondDonovan

Perfect way to describe Sabonis...puts up monster numbers for fantasy bball teams but I think his stats make him out to be a better player then he is.

Leaves Myles Turner to now play with Richaun Holmes...another rim protector. But let's see if this move can help Sacramento make the play-in spot.

I don't think so. New Orleans appears to be ascending and I think ends up at 8. LAC/LAL battle it out for the basement.

[daeve]

https://twitter.com/jclarknbcs/statu...226402309?s=21

simmons apologists gonna be mad if Morey gets his man?

been a lot of shade thrown his way over the last several months, but I maintain he's got more brain cells than Rich Paul and Ben combined.

[rseve43]

Originally Posted by DiamondDonovan

Perfect way to describe Sabonis...puts up monster numbers for fantasy bball teams but I think his stats make him out to be a better player then he is.

If you watch him play I’d actually argue the opposite- Sabonis’s stats almost don’t do him justice because of the intangibles he brings.

His scoring is unconventional as he isn’t a creator unless he’s in the post, but he’s an animal of a finisher down low. He’s probably not who you draw up a play to take a game winning shot though.

Beyond the box score, he’s a guy that brings 110% effort, is one of the top 3 screen assist guys in the NBA, makes the team-first play rather than the me-first play, and brings an elite basketball IQ.

I believe he’d be even better on a good team where he could pass more and score less…instead of 20/12/5, he’d probably prefer to be 16/12/8 and have guys who can actually hit shots around him when he gets them an uncontested 3.

[daeve]

Sources have indicated that the Lakers no longer believe they can win at a high level with Westbrook alongside James and Davis, but prior to Tuesday the line of thinking was that the Lakers would be unwilling to wave the white flag and admit their summer blockbuster was a failure. Instead, they would prefer to wait until the offseason, when they could also include a 2029 pick in a potential deal for another max-contract player looking for a new home.

But the tone after Tuesday’s loss suggested the Lakers are in need of more immediate action. Could things be so dire that the Lakers would be better off including that ’27 pick in a swap now — say for Houston’s John Wall? — even if it means a lesser return? Desperation got the Lakers into this mess and it might take desperation to get them out.

Either way, whether it is by Thursday’s deadline or in the summer, the Lakers know they need to find their way out of the Russell Westbrook business.

One Lakers staffer who had reservations about the trade when it was made in July recently told The Athletic, “I didn’t think it would be this bad.”

Sources told The Athletic that inside the locker room, players see and feel the same problems as everyone else, perhaps never more clearly than after a non-competitive loss to the champs. They understand as well as anyone that the personnel on this joyless 26-29 team simply isn’t working.

https://theathletic.com/3119965/2022...hange-sources/

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by daeve

https://twitter.com/jclarknbcs/statu...226402309?s=21

simmons apologists gonna be mad if Morey gets his man?

been a lot of shade thrown his way over the last several months, but I maintain he's got more brain cells than Rich Paul and Ben combined.

Interested to see how this plays out
- Direct Brooklyn / 76er swap
- 3 team where Ben actually ends up at third team, assets other players to Brooklyn (thinking like Atlanta for instance where Collins, Bogi, Picks go to Brooklyn, Ben to Atlanta)
- 3 team Harden to Philly, Ben to Brooklyn, Haris to third team (OKC?)
- 3 team Harden to Phily, Ben to Brooklyn, less attractive players / salary (Green, Milsap types) to third team for assets to be routed to Brooklyn


I am interested to see if Sean Marks wants to build on Irving/Durant/Simmons or if he wants to move off of Kyrie and build off of (using above example) Durant/Collins/ Picks & Cap space for a 3rd player in the offseason. If he has learned anything in the last two seasons is that they are too top heavy and their depth sucks. Also, basket cases (Harden/Irving potentially Simmons now) can be a drain on team dynamics.

[daeve]

^I really dont think Collins is going anywhere, not unless there's some inner turmoil within the team that's going undocumented. He's an excellent defender and shooter, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. He's also a perfect lob target for Trae.

And re: basket cases, Schlenk is the type of GM who strongly likes 'character' guys, he was part of the drafting team that got Klay, Steph, Draymond after all. I don't think Simmons is his type of guy. But he is also the reasonable GM who will listen to potentially anything to find a deal/value. I just don't think that's going to be Simmons unless the asking price is too good to pass up [but Collins being included would make that not the case].

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by daeve

https://theathletic.com/3119965/2022...hange-sources/

He didn't play the last 15 minutes of the game and the Lakers made a damn good run with him on the bench. It's not the first time that has happened either. He didn't play a single second of OT the other night. It's clear they want nothing to do with him in close games.

And once again, LeBron has his scapegoat. If it goes wrong, it's someone else that is the reason. If this turned around, LeBron would get all the praise. Still baffling that players sign up to play with him.

[Above the Rim]

Portland really needs defense and rebounding. How much defense and rebounding did they get with Josh Hart? And without McCollum, do you think Lillard now wants to stick around even more ? Ugh.

[NeedChapmans]

NY waving it's vaccine mandate; Kyrie going to be OK'ed for home games.

Helps Brooklyn a lot.

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by daeve

^I really dont think Collins is going anywhere, not unless there's some inner turmoil within the team that's going undocumented. He's an excellent defender and shooter, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. He's also a perfect lob target for Trae.

And re: basket cases, Schlenk is the type of GM who strongly likes 'character' guys, he was part of the drafting team that got Klay, Steph, Draymond after all. I don't think Simmons is his type of guy. But he is also the reasonable GM who will listen to potentially anything to find a deal/value. I just don't think that's going to be Simmons unless the asking price is too good to pass up [but Collins being included would make that not the case].

Gonna try to respond to each bold:
- John on several occasions now has stressed his issues / concerns with his lack of usage. I think he wants to be the #1 on a team but has never shown the ability to be that type of creator or high volume shooter.
- I cannot stress this enough, no one - absolutely no one - on the Hawks is an excellent defender much less John Collins. There is a reason we are ranked 27-28th in defense and have been tied to Josh Hart, Marcus Smart, Ben Simmons
- Being a lob threat is redundant - John, Clint, and OO are all lob threats but neither one can go get a bucket. John shoots much better than the other 2 but strives in miss-match situations
-Yes, Travis was part of the Steph/Klay/Draymond drafts which is exactly why I think he is interested in Ben Simmons because he knows how valuable Draymond was/is to that teams success and the closet player, skill/comp wise, to Draymond in the NBA is Ben. Trae would be our Steph, Kevin our Klay and Ben our Draymond, obviously to lower quality/standards.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by daeve

https://twitter.com/jclarknbcs/statu...226402309?s=21

simmons apologists gonna be mad if Morey gets his man?

been a lot of shade thrown his way over the last several months, but I maintain he's got more brain cells than Rich Paul and Ben combined.

It's a huge bet...

If they end up with Harden then Morey's gambit paid off.

If no trade gets done then they wasted a year of Embiid's prime.

For Simmons:

If he winds up in Brooklyn or another major contenders, then it's a win for him too.

If he winds up in some hopeless situation (although Sacramento is off the board seemingly), then it's a loss.

Of course, the biggest L for him is if no trade is done, as well.

[yiguiri2002]

I think Brooklyn and Philly have too much to lose not to make a trade. But I really don't know with Morey nowadays.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by btmcrushers

Gonna try to respond to each bold:
- John on several occasions now has stressed his issues / concerns with his lack of usage. I think he wants to be the #1 on a team but has never shown the ability to be that type of creator or high volume shooter.
- I cannot stress this enough, no one - absolutely no one - on the Hawks is an excellent defender much less John Collins. There is a reason we are ranked 27-28th in defense and have been tied to Josh Hart, Marcus Smart, Ben Simmons
- Being a lob threat is redundant - John, Clint, and OO are all lob threats but neither one can go get a bucket. John shoots much better than the other 2 but strives in miss-match situations
-Yes, Travis was part of the Steph/Klay/Draymond drafts which is exactly why I think he is interested in Ben Simmons because he knows how valuable Draymond was/is to that teams success and the closet player, skill/comp wise, to Draymond in the NBA is Ben. Trae would be our Steph, Kevin our Klay and Ben our Draymond, obviously to lower quality/standards.

1 - I think those were overblown. They were losing and weren't all those in post-game pressers after losses? He doesn't hog the ball / stop the ball like he "wants to be the #1", so I don't think there's anything to that.
2 - He's above-average on both Raptor and EPM defensively, and that's with playing the 5 too often due to Capela/OO injuries. The fact that he's still avg-above despite being needed to play the 5 more than he should speaks to his defensive abilities. Plus the fact that all the wings have been hurt this year means Trae's turnstile type defense hurts the bigs too. (see also - Utah's problems vs small ball in last year's playoffs when people kept erroneously blaming Gobert for what was largely their gameplan and the wings/perimeter defenders' faults)
3 - Being a lob threat is better when you have an outside game too. Capela is extremely limited as an offensive player, and OO is still very raw. Having the the threat of hitting outside shots opens up lanes to the hoop for more lobs, especially when there are multiple on the floor and you're quicker than a 5 [that's ++ for transition buckets as well].

4 - this last one is a good point, and one I could see Schlenk considering - if he is looking for a Value Draymond, then there is a good chance he could see Simmons filling that role, that's true. Big difference is that Draymond likes basketball though, has a high BBIQ, and will do what it takes to win - - Ben hasn't shown ability to do that yet.

[oshmeehan]

Love being a Bucks fan and not having to deal with any of the egos, ***holes, ****wads, lazy turds, complainers, etc. (i.e. the Hardens, Westbrooks, LeBrons, Simmons, Kyries of the NBA world)

[daeve]

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's a huge bet...

If they end up with Harden then Morey's gambit paid off.

If no trade gets done then they wasted a year of Embiid's prime.

For Simmons:

If he winds up in Brooklyn or another major contenders, then it's a win for him too.

If he winds up in some hopeless situation (although Sacramento is off the board seemingly), then it's a loss.

Of course, the biggest L for him is if no trade is done, as well.

I think Morey will make a trade of some sort - if not for Ben then possibly moving Harris. Otherwise yes, could be seen as a lost year for Embiid.

Simmons I can't see any "win" for him this year - he's thrown a $19 million temper tantrum and unless he's actually sought+received real psychological help during his little sabbatical this year, then him going to another contender isn't going to help his playoff woes. It will just be KD "throwing him under the bus" rather than Embiid. Look at the Lakers, sometimes you guys act like Embiid is the only one who would do this.

Bottom line is if you get paid star/All-star type money and play for a contender, then you're going to be expected to perform like one. I still think he'd be best on a team with smaller expectations - somewhere like Sactown would be perfect as they'd celebrate him if they made the playoffs. Brooklyn would just be Philly 2.0 for him, unless Nash somehow unlocks something in him... but I don't think Kyrie/KD are the "leader types" who would do that for him, especially since both are nutjobs in their own ways.

[jswest18]

Originally Posted by btmcrushers

Gonna try to respond to each bold:
- John on several occasions now has stressed his issues / concerns with his lack of usage. I think he wants to be the #1 on a team but has never shown the ability to be that type of creator or high volume shooter.
- I cannot stress this enough, no one - absolutely no one - on the Hawks is an excellent defender much less John Collins. There is a reason we are ranked 27-28th in defense and have been tied to Josh Hart, Marcus Smart, Ben Simmons
- Being a lob threat is redundant - John, Clint, and OO are all lob threats but neither one can go get a bucket. John shoots much better than the other 2 but strives in miss-match situations
-Yes, Travis was part of the Steph/Klay/Draymond drafts which is exactly why I think he is interested in Ben Simmons because he knows how valuable Draymond was/is to that teams success and the closet player, skill/comp wise, to Draymond in the NBA is Ben. Trae would be our Steph, Kevin our Klay and Ben our Draymond, obviously to lower quality/standards.

I don't think John wants to be the #1. I think he's been clear about that honestly. It's well known that he doesn't get plays called for him by the coaching staff though. In his mind, he knows he's talented offensively and he feels the team has invested in him so he feels he should have a more involved role in the offense. Not necessarily in place of Trae but just a more defined role where it's obvious the team values him as a key part of the core.

I agree no one on the team THIS YEAR has been an excellent defender. Capela was last year but not this year. John is a good defender though and most of the breakdown defensively for he and Capela have been because the point of attack defense has been so bad.

John is a better lob threat/rim runner than OO and Capela. Capela is getting worse as a lob threat it seems. JC is also a better shooter as you mentioned. Unlike Capela and OO (so far in his career) JC is able to take advantage of mismatches and he's also able to hit a mid range shot with consistency. He does struggle to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim, even in the post, so I also don't think he's a true #2 option. He'd be a great #3/2b if the Hawks had another good shot creator alongside Trae. I personally think that's why lineups with Huerter on the floor with the starters has been so successful. He's proved to be the best shot creator on the team outside of Trae.

IF Simmons would actually lean into the role that Draymond plays then it would be an ideal fit. Personally, I don't think he'd ever do that. He wants the ball in his hands too much.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by daeve

I think Morey will make a trade of some sort - if not for Ben then possibly moving Harris. Otherwise yes, could be seen as a lost year for Embiid.

Simmons I can't see any "win" for him this year - he's thrown a $19 million temper tantrum and unless he's actually sought+received real psychological help during his little sabbatical this year, then him going to another contender isn't going to help his playoff woes. It will just be KD "throwing him under the bus" rather than Embiid. Look at the Lakers, sometimes you guys act like Embiid is the only one who would do this.

Bottom line is if you get paid star/All-star type money and play for a contender, then you're going to be expected to perform like one. I still think he'd be best on a team with smaller expectations - somewhere like Sactown would be perfect as they'd celebrate him if they made the playoffs. Brooklyn would just be Philly 2.0 for him, unless Nash somehow unlocks something in him... but I don't think Kyrie/KD are the "leader types" who would do that for him, especially since both are nutjobs in their own ways.

The $19MM he lost is water under the bridge at this point.

Getting traded to a contender is definitely a win vs not getting traded and losing another losing another $16MM, or crawling back to the 76ers and having sat out for nothing.