Help Avoiding Altered PSA/BGS 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle

buyer1717 · 11-24-2021, 07:35 AM

I am in the market for a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that has been graded from PSA/BGS 2 - 5 range. I am very worried to pull the trigger on one with all the threads I have seen on the altered, trimmed, recolored, etc versions that are in PSA and BGS holders.

Is there a database of the graded ones found to be altered to avoid buying ?

What advice would you have to avoid buying a graded one that has not been altered ?

Would you trust a 52 Mantle in SGC holder more than PSA or BGC ?

Do these grading companies use any technologies to help find things such as recoloring and surface alterations which should be able to be found under special lighting ?

Thank you in advance.

GMRide27 · 11-24-2021, 08:16 AM

This guy may have one, definitely looks reputable:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1495775

erock28 · 11-24-2021, 09:36 AM

I always wanted a Mantle but couldn't bring myself to trust what I saw on eBay - mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I was very lucky to have a PSA 2 fall into my lap earlier this year that I am 100% confident is clean based on the source. My biggest piece of advice is to seek out a hobby expert you completely trust, even if it means offering up a finders fee. Anyone can look up a pop report, but that doesn't mean a non-crack proof slab hasn't been cracked and swapped. I'm sure in your area there is a reputable hobby expert that knows someone (or knows someone that knows someone) with a Mantle for sale outside of eBay. If it means paying an extra $xxx to have peace of mind, it's worth it.

buyer1717 · 11-24-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock28

I always wanted a Mantle but couldn't bring myself to trust what I saw on eBay - mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I was very lucky to have a PSA 2 fall into my lap earlier this year that I am 100% confident is clean based on the source. My biggest piece of advice is to seek out a hobby expert you completely trust, even if it means offering up a finders fee. Anyone can look up a pop report, but that doesn't mean a non-crack proof slab hasn't been cracked and swapped. I'm sure in your area there is a reputable hobby expert that knows someone (or knows someone that knows someone) with a Mantle for sale outside of eBay. If it means paying an extra $xxx to have peace of mind, it's worth it.

thank you. good advice. i dont mind paying more from a source I can trust.

GMRide27 · 11-24-2021, 11:09 AM

Buy the seller, not the item.

Doctor Claw · 11-24-2021, 01:51 PM

The choice of "point of sale" is your key choice here, in terms of avoiding any headaches down the line. My advice would be not to shop for a steal via a sub-optimal seller on an item of this magnitude. The major AH's— REA, Heritage, etc.— or a longtime seller like a 707 Sportscards for example are sure to sell legit cards, and not be inclined to risk their rep, built over decades, for one sale of a bad card. Also, try and use an eyeball test to seek a card with beefy borders that fills the holder to the right extent.

daviswr7 · 11-24-2021, 02:01 PM

My PSA 2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

THammers · 11-24-2021, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Claw

The choice of "point of sale" is your key choice here, in terms of avoiding any headaches down the line. My advice would be not to shop for a steal via a sub-optimal seller on an item of this magnitude. The major AH's— REA, Heritage, etc.— or a longtime seller like a 707 Sportscards for example are sure to sell legit cards, and not be inclined to risk their rep, built over decades, for one sale of a bad card. Also, try and use an eyeball test to seek a card with beefy borders that fills the holder to the right extent.

Not sure what your definition of major AH's is but there have been many examples of trimmed cards sold via major AH. They sell slabs not cards.

T1EliteP · 11-24-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMRide27

This guy may have one, definitely looks reputable:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1495775

rats60 · 11-24-2021, 04:47 PM

Your best bet is to try to locate a older collector who has had one in his collection from the 70s or 80s. With the rise of grading and card values, card doctoring had become widespread. None of the grading companies are good at detecting fakes. Boda has become good at finding pictures of cards before they have been altered. Search the threads here to find pictures and serial numbers of cards to avoid. Provenance is the only way to avoid altered cards, but be prepared to pay a premium. You aren't the only one looking to buy unaltered cards in number slabs.

DragonWagon · 11-24-2021, 08:13 PM

Every card (over 4,000) that has been outed in every forum on blowout and more, that I have been made aware of, organized by sport, then alphabetical by last name and searchable can all be found at https://www.tiffanycards.com/buyer-beware

pip · 11-25-2021, 02:35 AM

Here's a list of dealers to avoid. Not all of them alter cards but if you avoid those who do as well as those who shill their auctions, you'll have to worry a whole lot less about what you buy:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...0&postcount=86

Specifically regarding the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle: look for a card that exhibits a natural worn appearance. Avoid artificially rounded corners and creases that appear to have been pressed out of the surface. Also look for signs of bleaching and chemical alteration that may have been performed to remove writing or staining. Be sure to blacklight the card before finalizing a purchase.

Edited to add: in almost all cases, I would avoid buying a Beckett graded card when shopping for vintage.

Quote:

Would you trust a 52 Mantle in SGC holder more than PSA or BGS

PSA and SGC would be about even when buying a 1952 Mantle. You're going to get about the same percentage of altered cards with each company. As has been stated above, buy from the right dealers and ignore discounted cards if the wrong dealer (see list above) is selling them.

pip · 11-25-2021, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Your best bet is to try to locate a older collector who has had one in his collection from the 70s or 80s. With the rise of grading and card values, card doctoring had become widespread. None of the grading companies are good at detecting fakes. Boda has become good at finding pictures of cards before they have been altered. Search the threads here to find pictures and serial numbers of cards to avoid. Provenance is the only way to avoid altered cards, but be prepared to pay a premium. You aren't the only one looking to buy unaltered cards in number slabs.

This is some good advice. Don't be afraid to buy raw cards if you are well versed in vintage.

NYRE2PECT · 11-25-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonWagon

Every card (over 4,000) that has been outed in every forum on blowout and more, that I have been made aware of, organized by sport, then alphabetical by last name and searchable can all be found at https://www.tiffanycards.com/buyer-beware

This is amazing - thank you!

Doctor Claw · 11-25-2021, 09:49 AM

It also is smart these days to query the seller/AH on any big card purchase as to the card's prior owner. Sometimes you can get lucky and the owner can help shed light on a card's history/provenance, even if you have to lob a few calls/emails. It could be fun and really adds character to the card in my opinion.

Way back when I got my 1952 Mantle, pictured below, I was lucky enough to make contact with the owner and his son— turns out the father was the only prior owner of the card, having pulled it from a pack when he was a boy in 1952! It was such a cool story— hearing how he saved his paper route money, what the town was like where he got it, the tobacco shop where the packs were sold— I was able to interview him and record it for posterity, so that long after I am gone my son can have that interview and prove it went from pack to that owner to us, replete with pictures of it raw before the owner drove it to PSA with his son and had it graded. In these days such research into a card, if it's possible, has added benefits beyond of course just learning of its journey through time.

PS: Davis, that 2 is fantastic.

Retired hobbist · 11-25-2021, 11:11 AM

By the way what grade is your card? Also how many years ago did you buy your card and what price did you pay for your card if you care to disclose it.

JWBlue · 11-25-2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Claw

That Mantle is in amazing condition. Unbelievable really.

JWBlue · 11-25-2021, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retired hobbist

By the way what grade is your card? Also how many years ago did you buy your card and what price did you pay for your card if you care to disclose it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retired hobbist

By the way what grade is your card? Also how many years ago did you buy your card and what price did you pay for your card if you care to disclose it.

I like playing the guessing game. I am going to say a 6.

11-24-2021, 07:35 AM	#1
buyer1717 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 157	Help Avoiding Altered PSA/BGS 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle I am in the market for a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that has been graded from PSA/BGS 2 - 5 range. I am very worried to pull the trigger on one with all the threads I have seen on the altered, trimmed, recolored, etc versions that are in PSA and BGS holders. Is there a database of the graded ones found to be altered to avoid buying ? What advice would you have to avoid buying a graded one that has not been altered ? Would you trust a 52 Mantle in SGC holder more than PSA or BGC ? Do these grading companies use any technologies to help find things such as recoloring and surface alterations which should be able to be found under special lighting ? Thank you in advance. Last edited by buyer1717; 11-24-2021 at 07:46 AM.

11-25-2021, 09:49 AM	#15
Doctor Claw Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,017	It also is smart these days to query the seller/AH on any big card purchase as to the card's prior owner. Sometimes you can get lucky and the owner can help shed light on a card's history/provenance, even if you have to lob a few calls/emails. It could be fun and really adds character to the card in my opinion. Way back when I got my 1952 Mantle, pictured below, I was lucky enough to make contact with the owner and his son— turns out the father was the only prior owner of the card, having pulled it from a pack when he was a boy in 1952! It was such a cool story— hearing how he saved his paper route money, what the town was like where he got it, the tobacco shop where the packs were sold— I was able to interview him and record it for posterity, so that long after I am gone my son can have that interview and prove it went from pack to that owner to us, replete with pictures of it raw before the owner drove it to PSA with his son and had it graded. In these days such research into a card, if it's possible, has added benefits beyond of course just learning of its journey through time. PS: Davis, that 2 is fantastic. Last edited by Doctor Claw; 11-25-2021 at 10:03 AM.

11-24-2021, 08:16 AM	#2
GMRide27 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 705	This guy may have one, definitely looks reputable: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1495775

11-24-2021, 09:36 AM	#3
erock28 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Oak Creek, WI Posts: 2,591 topnotchcards28	I always wanted a Mantle but couldn't bring myself to trust what I saw on eBay - mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I was very lucky to have a PSA 2 fall into my lap earlier this year that I am 100% confident is clean based on the source. My biggest piece of advice is to seek out a hobby expert you completely trust, even if it means offering up a finders fee. Anyone can look up a pop report, but that doesn't mean a non-crack proof slab hasn't been cracked and swapped. I'm sure in your area there is a reputable hobby expert that knows someone (or knows someone that knows someone) with a Mantle for sale outside of eBay. If it means paying an extra $xxx to have peace of mind, it's worth it.

11-24-2021, 11:09 AM	#5
GMRide27 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 705	Buy the seller, not the item.

11-24-2021, 01:51 PM	#6
Doctor Claw Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,017	The choice of "point of sale" is your key choice here, in terms of avoiding any headaches down the line. My advice would be not to shop for a steal via a sub-optimal seller on an item of this magnitude. The major AH's— REA, Heritage, etc.— or a longtime seller like a 707 Sportscards for example are sure to sell legit cards, and not be inclined to risk their rep, built over decades, for one sale of a bad card. Also, try and use an eyeball test to seek a card with beefy borders that fills the holder to the right extent.

11-24-2021, 02:01 PM	#7
daviswr7 Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dagobah Posts: 7,536	My PSA 2 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11-24-2021, 04:47 PM	#10
rats60 Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,128	Your best bet is to try to locate a older collector who has had one in his collection from the 70s or 80s. With the rise of grading and card values, card doctoring had become widespread. None of the grading companies are good at detecting fakes. Boda has become good at finding pictures of cards before they have been altered. Search the threads here to find pictures and serial numbers of cards to avoid. Provenance is the only way to avoid altered cards, but be prepared to pay a premium. You aren't the only one looking to buy unaltered cards in number slabs.

11-24-2021, 08:13 PM	#11
DragonWagon Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 911	Every card (over 4,000) that has been outed in every forum on blowout and more, that I have been made aware of, organized by sport, then alphabetical by last name and searchable can all be found at https://www.tiffanycards.com/buyer-beware

11-25-2021, 11:11 AM	#16
Retired hobbist Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1,512	By the way what grade is your card? Also how many years ago did you buy your card and what price did you pay for your card if you care to disclose it.