MLB Heading To A Lockout

[base set]

Originally Posted by BdotHobbs

NBA jerseys basically look like Nascars

MLB jerseys have a small Nike logo. Personally I prefer it to the janky Majestic logo that used to be there

I keep wondering which logo will be added next. The Golden Arches? The return of “Baseball, Apple Pie, and….” ?

[JRX]

MLB is already looking at launching a streaming service.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/17/mlb-in...or-home-games/

[hermanotarjeta]

MLB isn’t going to extend for one more season just so you have time to unload your investments- the time to move them was yesterday.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by BdotHobbs

Boomers are still mad about the Nike logo on jerseys???

Complains about boomers being mad about the Nike logo, and complains about the Majestic logo 2 posts later.
Can't make this shat up.

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[BdotHobbs]

Nike logo > Majestic logo

There's always gonna be some sort of logo and its not worth being upset about

[JRX]

I don't recall the majestic logo being on the front of the jersey. Regardless, its tacky. It doesn't make me want to buy Nike products and it makes me not want to buy an mlb jersey with that stupid swoosh on it.

[BdotHobbs]

Majestic logo was on the sleeve before and there's no Nike logo on the sleeve now. They just swapped the location of the logo. Just seems like such a minor thing for baseball fans to be upset about. Seems like its the same crowd that thinks its cool for a pitcher to throw a 95 mph fastball at someone's head because they smiled after a home run.

I did forget that certain people dont like Nike for political reasons though.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by BdotHobbs

Majestic logo was on the sleeve before and there's no Nike logo on the sleeve now. They just swapped the location of the logo. Just seems like such a minor thing for baseball fans to be upset about. Seems like its the same crowd that thinks its cool for a pitcher to throw a 95 mph fastball at someone's head because they smiled after a home run.

I did forget that certain people dont like Nike for political reasons though.

As a boomer, I personally couldn't care less about the logo.
I do find it crazy that the same people applauding Nike for their political reasons tend to ignore the slave labor Nike uses.

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[Silent George]

Boy, to be 100% sure there's going to be a season that starts on time is sure to ignore a ton of history, as well as the environment between the sides for the last few years.

Remember, 2020 didn't happen because anything was agreed upon. 2020 happened because the players had the right to the 60 game season which they pulled the trigger on when nothing was agreed upon.

I'm not saying a work stoppage is going to happen, but I've seen zero breaks or concessions from owners whatsoever. They are lock step together. And on the other side the vast majority of players are pissed. And the owners initial proposal was 3 steps backwards.

pitchers and catchers are supposed to report in less than 4 months. Maybe if you're counting on no disruption being only the regular season there's a better chance, but I see this as 50/50 at best. The owners have strong-armed for years, and have the resources to hold out for a long long time. The players traditionally take the brunt of the public scrutiny and are a much weaker unit.

If there is a deal on time, I imagine we will at least be sweating it. It may go up to the midnight hour. My optimism is far less than others here. the 2020 fight was absurdly ridiculous, and still fresh.

[Saraste]

I wonder if the players would agree to a cap on the number of years for a free agent contract. Cap them at, say 4-5 years. It would prevent the owners from giving out stupid contracts (read Pujols, Miggy) that are a major loss for them in the long-term. This would affect such a small number of players that the MLBPA may bite. This part will likely be a very small part of the agreement. If there ends up being some sort of a salary cap/revenue sharing, then this might be a bigger part of the deal.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Saraste

I wonder if the players would agree to a cap on the number of years for a free agent contract. Cap them at, say 4-5 years. It would prevent the owners from giving out stupid contracts (read Pujols, Miggy) that are a major loss for them in the long-term. This would affect such a small number of players that the MLBPA may bite. This part will likely be a very small part of the agreement. If there ends up being some sort of a salary cap/revenue sharing, then this might be a bigger part of the deal.

Um no, why would players agree to shorter contracts? What are they getting in return?

[Stech36]

One of my best friends plays in the majors currently, but was injured all of last year. He is extremely worried. He’s on the cusp of being out of the league, so he really needs this season to Re-establish himself.

He said more I don’t want to repeat, but the players are extremely anti owner at the moment

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by JRX

Um no, why would players agree to shorter contracts? What are they getting in return?

apparently a salary cap so they can get even less?

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by Stech36

One of my best friends plays in the majors currently, but was injured all of last year. He is extremely worried. He’s on the cusp of being out of the league, so he really needs this season to Re-establish himself.

He said more I don’t want to repeat, but the players are extremely anti owner at the moment

Most people look at these sorts of negotiations as "the two sides have to meet in the middle"

The players are looking at it as they have to make up lost ground, and this is their only shot.

And that's why this is going to be superbly nasty.

[Saraste]

I am one, unfortunately, that thinks there will be a significant delay to the season, if there is a season at all.

Do I think both sides should hammer something out? Of course. There are billions in revenue at stake. However common sense will not prevail because the animosity on both sides has been building for years. That will be extremely difficult to overcome. If the owners said it is raining out, the players would verify it instead of trusting them. I believe the players have been preparing for a lockout for years by putting money aside for the younger players. I hope I am very wrong, but history whispers to me otherwise.

[Saraste]

Originally Posted by JRX

Um no, why would players agree to shorter contracts? What are they getting in return?

They would use it as a bargaining chip.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Saraste

if there is a season at all.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by premium1981

As two of the more senior member of BO, I can vouch that premium's predictions are usually spot on.....

But I dont know about this time. In a logical world yes, you would be stupid to put aside a 10 billion dollar a year industry just because you cant get along with the other side, but we aren't exactly living in a logical world these days. And if it turns into a dick measuring contest between the owners and players and neither wants to budge, then everyone gets screwed.

[peanuts]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

So for those saying there's no way this happens, why is this different from 1994? I'm honestly not up on the issues that make this a different situation.

The way that baseball teams integrate into owners' business interests have changed over time. What used to be a status symbol has become a way to generate a reliable, high cash flow, and then leverage that with your stadium as a central organizing point for real estate development.

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by peanuts

The way that baseball teams integrate into owners' business interests have changed over time. What used to be a status symbol has become a way to generate a reliable, high cash flow, and then leverage that with your stadium as a central organizing point for real estate development.

This is not different than 1994. This is different than 1954. Over 1/3 of the league still has the same owners since the 1995 lockout.

1976-1994 was the nastiest time in baseball history for player owner relations, and ALL having to do with the owners not wanting to pay more for free agents - which was something that couldn't have been had the owners not had the money to do it.

There's a pendulum between owner control and player free market. And ever since that first nudge with original not-free-at-all free agency agreement, owners have been pushing back, often illegally.

Every move owners have made since 1976 has been about not paying player's their free market share. And when they've lost - they've reshaped their organization around being tougher and more united the next time. This brought Selig. This brought Manfred. Labor peace has existed partially because players have had their butt handed to them in terrible deals. That this has been realized has not made the owners stop pushing for more. Instead they held there ground on not exceeding a 60 game season in 2020 (something they couldn't stop - and had some owners wanting to cancel the season). And their first proposal featured a dramatic lowering of the luxury tax threshold, baseball's soft salary cap. this is war.

[JRX]

The owners are still mad about free agency. Go back through all the previous labor stoppages, its always been tied to free agency, paying players less, etc.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Boy, to be 100% sure there's going to be a season that starts on time is sure to ignore a ton of history, as well as the environment between the sides for the last few years.

Remember, 2020 didn't happen because anything was agreed upon. 2020 happened because the players had the right to the 60 game season which they pulled the trigger on when nothing was agreed upon.

I'm not saying a work stoppage is going to happen, but I've seen zero breaks or concessions from owners whatsoever. They are lock step together. And on the other side the vast majority of players are pissed. And the owners initial proposal was 3 steps backwards.

pitchers and catchers are supposed to report in less than 4 months. Maybe if you're counting on no disruption being only the regular season there's a better chance, but I see this as 50/50 at best. The owners have strong-armed for years, and have the resources to hold out for a long long time. The players traditionally take the brunt of the public scrutiny and are a much weaker unit.

If there is a deal on time, I imagine we will at least be sweating it. It may go up to the midnight hour. My optimism is far less than others here. the 2020 fight was absurdly ridiculous, and still fresh.

From fact to sentiment, this is pretty spot on.

[erock28]

Originally Posted by Silent George

This is not different than 1994. This is different than 1954. Over 1/3 of the league still has the same owners since the 1995 lockout.

1976-1994 was the nastiest time in baseball history for player owner relations, and ALL having to do with the owners not wanting to pay more for free agents - which was something that couldn't have been had the owners not had the money to do it.

There's a pendulum between owner control and player free market. And ever since that first nudge with original not-free-at-all free agency agreement, owners have been pushing back, often illegally.

Every move owners have made since 1976 has been about not paying player's their free market share. And when they've lost - they've reshaped their organization around being tougher and more united the next time. This brought Selig. This brought Manfred. Labor peace has existed partially because players have had their butt handed to them in terrible deals. That this has been realized has not made the owners stop pushing for more. Instead they held there ground on not exceeding a 60 game season in 2020 (something they couldn't stop - and had some owners wanting to cancel the season). And their first proposal featured a dramatic lowering of the luxury tax threshold, baseball's soft salary cap. this is war.

Agreed. Unless they decide to extend the current CBA one more year, I don't think for one hot second we will have a 2022 season. This is indeed war. The sides are sooooo far apart on critical issues, and now service time has been added to the fray. Look at team values from 1994 to today. What are we at, a nearly TEN fold increase? The owners can stand pat, knowing a one year loss of income won't cripple them. They hold the cards. Unless they're willing to bend, a stoppage is happening.

[SearchPatrol]

What's the players end game? As of right now, total salaries for all MLB players in 2021 is $3,825,147,026

3.8 Billion. That doesn't include things like cards.

The top 50 players make 33.4% of that money.

The owners won't give the players a Billion more. If that's what they want, there will be a work stoppage.

So what do the players think they will get?

So much of this seems to be problems between the wealth players and minimum pay players.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Every move owners have made since 1976 has been about not paying player's their free market share.

What does “free market share” mean?

If the players got their “free market share” what would look different than today?


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