2021 MLB MVPs will come from sub .500 teams

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by hammertime

That's because RBI is largely a measure of how good your teammates are.

you'd think that be more of the argument for BA than RBI. if you're the only threat on the team because the rest of your team sucks, then there's no reason for you to see any pitches worth hitting right?

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Zauron

Not having 100 RBI's meaning the hitter is not a MVP is a horrible take.

did anybody actually say this?

[LCM1223]

And??

[Skipscards]

I think you can flip a coin between Harper and Soto. I like both and would be fine with either. I think Goldschmidt is the only one with a chance to spoil it as the voters often favor players on playoff teams. Plus, during the 17 game streak, Goldy hit .391/.474/.844.

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by oplum29

you'd think that be more of the argument for BA than RBI. if you're the only threat on the team because the rest of your team sucks, then there's no reason for you to see any pitches worth hitting right?

Yet Soto still finds ways to rake at a high average


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[whackadoo]

Originally Posted by Hail2TheVictors

Can this theory die already? Baseball is 100% a team game.

1 guys play does NOT equate to a team making the playoffs - why is this so difficult to understand? I see this mentioned all over the place, and it's just wild.

i agree with this 100%. makes sense in NBA and NFL possibly, not MLB. so if Soto hit .400 this year with 50 bombs and 1.200 OPS, 10 war, etc. they wouldn't vote for him because he played for a bad team? makes no sense to me. call me crazy.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by whackadoo

i agree with this 100%. makes sense in NBA and NFL possibly, not MLB. so if Soto hit .400 this year with 50 bombs and 1.200 OPS, 10 war, etc. they wouldn't vote for him because he played for a bad team? makes no sense to me. call me crazy.

Almost like Ted Williams in 1941, with his .405 BA, 10.4 WAR, 1,287 OPS, Home Run leader, etc while coming in 2nd place. same as Boston.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Zauron

Some of the takes in this thread are absurd. Also one year Bonds hit 45 homeruns and only had 90 RBI's.

Not having 100 RBI's meaning the hitter is not a MVP is a horrible take.

Just like not being on a playoff team means you are not a MVP. It's not like it's Ohtani's fault the pitching sucks for the Angels, Soto's fault their pitching stinks, etc. It's happened so many times the best, most valuable player just so happened to play for a losing team.

Stanton in 2017

Basically every single time Trout won it

ARod, Larry Walker, etc

There have been 150 players in MLB history who hit 45 or more home runs in a season. The only players in that list with under 100 RBI were Bonds, with 45 HR and 90 RBI in 2003, Soriano, with 46 HR and 96 RBI in 2006, and Killebrew, with 46 HR and 96 RBI in 1963. Bonds was a unique case because he walked 26.9% of the time.

So that means a player has a 98% chance of getting 100 RBI when they hit 45 home runs, based off past history.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

There have been 150 players in MLB history who hit 45 or more home runs in a season. The only players in that list with under 100 RBI were Bonds, with 45 HR and 90 RBI in 2003, Soriano, with 46 HR and 96 RBI in 2006, and Killebrew, with 46 HR and 96 RBI in 1963. Bonds was a unique case because he walked 26.9% of the time.

So that means a player has a 98% chance of getting 100 RBI when they hit 45 home runs, based off past history.

Ohtani came within 1 day of making that list

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Yet Soto still finds ways to rake at a high average


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yup! Soto is living up to the "modern day Ted Williams" tag, kid is awesome.

[Banks8181]

I find this argument insufferable for some reason. Just give it to the person that was most valuable that year. The players team making the playoffs shouldn’t matter.

[Wolves4Life]

Riley SHOULD be the NL MVP. Sadly, I could see him not even being a finalist.
Ohtani is the only lock (imo) in all the awards that will be handed out except Comeback Player of the Year.

[cardsin47]

This ‘but his team isn’t in the playoffs’ debate would stop, if everyone here was clear on the definition of MVP

is it most valuable to his team / helping them win
Or
is it most valuable to the League?

[Gatorsmld]

As I have gotten older I care less about the player’s team making the playoffs vs his actual “value”. The one thing I will never waiver from though is a pitcher winning the regular season MVP. That’s just wrong and stupid.

[PDCCollectibles]

I think Harper gets it for an incredible 2nd half....

[Saraste]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmld

As I have gotten older I care less about the player’s team making the playoffs vs his actual “value”. The one thing I will never waiver from though is a pitcher winning the regular season MVP. That’s just wrong and stupid.

So you are against Ohtani winning it this year?

[BaseballKing]

Ohtani and Harper/Tatis.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by cardcollector34

Who’s your MVP? Brandon Crawford and Randy Arozarena?

WAR doesn’t value Randy A. and his very good early career start., what he does do is he crushes it in the post season.

One of the reasons I neglect the value of WAR. It may not reflect to the regular season of selecting a MVP, but Arozarena doesn’t go MIA in the playoffs like many others have.

Harper and Soto are virtually identical, Freeman helped his team reach. Toss-up.

Ohtani had a great cherry picked season, while Vlad just missed the post season.

Ohtani had a tremendous High Leverage season but Vlad had a better overall season. Vlad by a slight margin.

[Biohazarddfl]

Regarding Brandon Crawford, does anyone have an explanation for how a 34/35 year old can double his power at that age while cutting his strike outs? I can understand if he sold out for power and was willing to strike out more, but literally doubling your ISO and striking out less is a heck of a trick at that age. Sorry to derail things, just wanted to hear some opinions.

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[Stifle]

[QUOTE=Biohazarddfl;17712910]Regarding Brandon Crawford, does anyone have an explanation for how a 34/35 year old can double his power at that age while cutting his strike outs? I can understand if he sold out for power and was willing to strike out more, but literally doubling your ISO and striking out less is a heck of a trick at that age. Sorry to derail things, just wanted to hear some opinions.


Unlike Salvy Perez who K’d 170’s times but was the leader in HR’s & RBI’s, Crawford’s numbers are unique. At 29 Wade Boggs had 24 HR’s and was 3rd in SLG% making it the only time he sniffed a top 10 finish and had one of his better years at not striking out.

[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Regarding Brandon Crawford, does anyone have an explanation for how a 34/35 year old can double his power at that age while cutting his strike outs? I can understand if he sold out for power and was willing to strike out more, but literally doubling your ISO and striking out less is a heck of a trick at that age. Sorry to derail things, just wanted to hear some opinions.

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He’s shown this power before. In 2015, he hit 21 HR, and had 58 extra-base hits overall. He actually had one less extra-base hit this year—though it was in less at-bats.

Also, the Giants closed the open-air archways that allowed fans to watch the game from outside the stadium in right field. There haven’t been any official studies, but it’s believed that when the archways were open, it allowed more field-level wind to enter the park, which would suppress fly-ball distances. When they closed the arches, the ball started flying better to right. Posey’s oppo homer the other night could be circumstantial evidence of this.


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[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

He’s shown this power before. In 2015, he hit 21 HR, and had 58 extra-base hits overall. He actually had one less extra-base hit this year—though it was in less at-bats.

Also, the Giants closed the open-air archways that allowed fans to watch the game from outside the stadium in right field. There haven’t been any official studies, but it’s believed that when the archways were open, it allowed more field-level wind to enter the park, which would suppress fly-ball distances. When they closed the arches, the ball started flying better to right. Posey’s oppo homer the other night could be circumstantial evidence of this.


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Could be. He was 28/29 in 2015 though. At his age, this is somewhat unprecedented. I hadn't heard the archways theory, I like that one. Just to play devils advocate, it doesn't seem to be helping the power of opponents at all this year.

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[eye4talent]

It’s time for the baseball world to elevate the importance of the Hank Aaron Award. It’s a hitter’s award named after an all-time great hitter, just as the Cy Young Award is a pitcher’s award named after an all-time great pitcher.

This would free the MVP from the arguments about whether a pitcher should be able to win, whether the winner should be on a competitive team, whether a hitter/pitcher should beat out the best hitter.

There would probably still be some debate about the value of a player on a playoff-bound team versus one on a cellar dweller, but at least greater appreciation for the HA would alleviate much of the MVP debate/tension.


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[eye4talent]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

Could be. He was 28/29 in 2015 though. At his age, this is somewhat unprecedented. I hadn't heard the archways theory, I like that one. Just to play devils advocate, it doesn't seem to be helping the power of opponents at all this year.

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Great pitching, of course!

I wouldn’t say Crawford’s season at this age is unprecedented. Excluding the PED crowd (and I don’t think Crawford is juicing), there are plenty examples of guys having peak-level seasons in their mid-30s. Also, Crawhis 8 HR and 12 doubles last year in 54 games. That would be 24 HR and 36 doubles in 162 games. (They closed the arches before last season.)

Brandon Belt’s season is probably closer to unprecedented. He had never hit 20 before, but he hit 29 in less than 100 games this year. However, it had long been speculated (at least amongst us NorCal folks) that he could probably hit 40 in a place like Yankee Stadium. Now that Oracle Park’s right field wall is no longer the wall of death for homers, maybe he’s swinging with a lot more confidence in his power.


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[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by eye4talent

Great pitching, of course!

I wouldn’t say Crawford’s season at this age is unprecedented. Excluding the PED crowd (and I don’t think Crawford is juicing), there are plenty examples of guys having peak-level seasons in their mid-30s. Also, Crawhis 8 HR and 12 doubles last year in 54 games. That would be 24 HR and 36 doubles in 162 games. (They closed the arches before last season.)

Brandon Belt’s season is probably closer to unprecedented. He had never hit 20 before, but he hit 29 in less than 100 games this year. However, it had long been speculated (at least amongst us NorCal folks) that he could probably hit 40 in a place like Yankee Stadium. Now that Oracle Park’s right field wall is no longer the wall of death for homers, maybe he’s swinging with a lot more confidence in his power.


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I'm concerned that the big 3 of Belt, Crawford, and Posey are all doing something suspicious given their age and history. I know the Giants crowd will lose their minds, but we've all seen this before. It's too much of a reach to say that their mediocre pitching is utterly dominant but the changes made to the ballpark have made 3 aging players the best versions of themselves.

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