Fanatics > All Other TPG?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Wonder where they are going to find graders from? Are they going to poach the other companies and pay more money?

I wonder what the qualifications are for their graders? Any certification or ethics training?

It takes a long time to build a good reputation and a second to kill it.

The only thing their graders need to know is if its a card fanatics themselves will be selling - those get 10s. If its from some guy mailing it in 9.5 tops.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Which current “TPG” can be considered an independent third party?



All have $kin in the game.

If the TPG is manufacturing the card that's being graded they don't just have skin in the game, they have have the entire body.

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[JRX]

Right you get all the current corruption with current graders plus more

[k13]

Don't want their cards let alone their grades.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Astros19

If the TPG is manufacturing the card that's being graded they don't just have skin in the game, they have have the entire body.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

That completely avoids my question.

[imbluestreak23]

Hate everything Fanatics. The more I read about it the more I despise their plan and everyone involved.

Want to see my google images jpeg collection of awesome sports pics? Said nobody ever. Shame on clectors and players unions for allowing this #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@.

Can't wait to crack out any actual physical cards from the Stanatics kids in 5 years and submit to PSA and sell on eBay.

[Archangel1775]

Like anything else, there will be options but any Fanatics grading company is basically:

[Archangel1775]

The more I think about it, it'll be a waste of plastic. Maybe entry level collectors keep them sealed but you'll probably see a lot of slab cracking and submissions to PSA/BGS/SCG

[AnthonyT]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Why would I trust a grading company that will be selling its own graded cards for profit?

You ever wonder why Beckett auctions never took off?

Too much room for corruption. And yes it was very corrupt.

This is exactly my thinking. Fantatics printing cards specifically for grading. Who is to say its a 10 besides the one who benefits most from it?

[creasecollector]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Hate everything Fanatics. The more I read about it the more I despise their plan and everyone involved.

Want to see my google images jpeg collection of awesome sports pics? Said nobody ever. Shame on clectors and players unions for allowing this #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@.

Can't wait to crack out any actual physical cards from the Stanatics kids in 5 years and submit to PSA and sell on eBay.

I read this in Don Draper's voice.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Which current “TPG” can be considered an independent third party?

All have $kin in the game.

This. TPGs employ a variety of tactics to get customers coming back…and accuracy isn’t always the most employed tactic.

At least when the manufacturer is also slabbing, accuracy is going to be paramount because then nobody is going to buy their slabs otherwise (except for flippers who will try to flip anything).

[hotcalsun]

It could be a flippers paradise...

Flipper signs up for a Fanatics break on the day of a release.

Flipper pulls a couple of cards that they would like to get graded, and it goes directly to Fanatics grading and gets graded that night.

Immediately after the grade is determined, the flipper consigns them and sells it through a Fanatics auction / sale process.

The Flipper get a direct deposit for the net of what they sold, no returns or other nonsense.

From break to liquidity in 24 hours.

There is a lot to hate about it, but it is true vertical integration. The other alternative is that you wait weeks, months, or years for the alphabet soup TPG of our choice to grade it.

[440ToCenter]

Originally Posted by JRX

To that point, what prevents fanatics from trimming their own cards? Topps et al don't care about grades, but if one company makes, grades, and runs its own marketplace they can and most likely will do whatever they want.

This is a very good point.

Adjustments can be made at several stages in processing of the cards. Printing and cutting thousands upon thousands of cards results in a distribution of traits (e.g. +/- error bands for dimensions, centering, color registration, surface, etc.).

The results may vary based on design so I could easily see Fanatics making different decisions than legacy card makers in terms of tailoring these results. They may decide that they want the end product which comes out the door to be a higher or lower percentage of "10s" to control value.

Still, the TPGs would be in a position to give their independent view of the results. I think it depends on how transparent Fanatics is about their grading, which could be in conflict with a possible intent of controlling value.

Fanatics - "In our opinion this is a 10."
TPG - "In our opinion, based on observing a statistically significant sample size of your product, this is not a 10."

[JRX]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It could be a flippers paradise...

Flipper signs up for a Fanatics break on the day of a release.

Flipper pulls a couple of cards that they would like to get graded, and it goes directly to Fanatics grading and gets graded that night.

Immediately after the grade is determined, the flipper consigns them and sells it through a Fanatics auction / sale process.

The Flipper get a direct deposit for the net of what they sold, no returns or other nonsense.

From break to liquidity in 24 hours.

There is a lot to hate about it, but it is true vertical integration. The other alternative is that you wait weeks, months, or years for the alphabet soup TPG of our choice to grade it.

I think this is exactly what they're going for. You never even need to physically possess the card. They'll make it for you, they'll open it for you via their breakers, they'll grade it for you, they'll sell it for you. There will be so much room for abuse.

[JRX]

What's even better is that the sale could be an internal fake sale to generate hype and get people to buy into the next break etc. Splash all over social media "Jasson Dominguez RC sells for $$$$$$, Invest, Diamond Hands, to the Moon"

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It could be a flippers paradise...

Flipper signs up for a Fanatics break on the day of a release.

Flipper pulls a couple of cards that they would like to get graded, and it goes directly to Fanatics grading and gets graded that night.

Immediately after the grade is determined, the flipper consigns them and sells it through a Fanatics auction / sale process.

The Flipper get a direct deposit for the net of what they sold, no returns or other nonsense.

From break to liquidity in 24 hours.

There is a lot to hate about it, but it is true vertical integration. The other alternative is that you wait weeks, months, or years for the alphabet soup TPG of our choice to grade it.

Cards could also be graded prior to the break.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by 440ToCenter

This is a very good point.

Adjustments can be made at several stages in processing of the cards. Printing and cutting thousands upon thousands of cards results in a distribution of traits (e.g. +/- error bands for dimensions, centering, color registration, surface, etc.).

The results may vary based on design so I could easily see Fanatics making different decisions than legacy card makers in terms of tailoring these results. They may decide that they want the end product which comes out the door to be a higher or lower percentage of "10s" to control value.

Still, the TPGs would be in a position to give their independent view of the results. I think it depends on how transparent Fanatics is about their grading, which could be in conflict with a possible intent of controlling value.

Fanatics - "In our opinion this is a 10."
TPG - "In our opinion, based on observing a statistically significant sample size of your product, this is not a 10."

This happens already with the “PSA Quick Opinion” service.

Much of the time if you point PSA Quick Opinion to a competitor-authenticated signature, PSA will come back with a negative result…even if you know the signature to be authentic.

Why? Because PSA wants to discredit the competition for their own advantage.

Trust remains low in TPGers and TPAs.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

This. TPGs employ a variety of tactics to get customers coming back…and accuracy isn’t always the most employed tactic.

At least when the manufacturer is also slabbing, accuracy is going to be paramount because then nobody is going to buy their slabs otherwise (except for flippers who will try to flip anything).

The primary concern of a for-profit enterprise is -- wait for it -- maximizing profit-generating activities. The TPG's have an inherent conflict of interest because accuracy and quality aren't their primary concern -- they have a disincentive to be too accurate, which would alienate valued clients.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It could be a flippers paradise...

Flipper signs up for a Fanatics break on the day of a release.

Flipper pulls a couple of cards that they would like to get graded, and it goes directly to Fanatics grading and gets graded that night.

Immediately after the grade is determined, the flipper consigns them and sells it through a Fanatics auction / sale process.

The Flipper get a direct deposit for the net of what they sold, no returns or other nonsense.

From break to liquidity in 24 hours.

There is a lot to hate about it, but it is true vertical integration. The other alternative is that you wait weeks, months, or years for the alphabet soup TPG of our choice to grade it.

That works if there's excess value remaining for flippers to exploit. With the current arrangement of a fractured industry, there is plenty of inefficiencies and excess value to exploit. But the assumption is Fanatics' vertical integration and de-facto monopolization will soak up excess value and maximize pricing.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

This. TPGs employ a variety of tactics to get customers coming back…and accuracy isn’t always the most employed tactic.

At least when the manufacturer is also slabbing, accuracy is going to be paramount because then nobody is going to buy their slabs otherwise (except for flippers who will try to flip anything).

You’ve said that multiple times now.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

That completely avoids my question.

That's because I wasn't trying to answer your question. I was pointing out the ignorance of your question. A TPG that grades cards that "they" produce, can't be considered a third party.

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[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It could be a flippers paradise...

Flipper signs up for a Fanatics break on the day of a release.

Flipper pulls a couple of cards that they would like to get graded, and it goes directly to Fanatics grading and gets graded that night.

Immediately after the grade is determined, the flipper consigns them and sells it through a Fanatics auction / sale process.

The Flipper get a direct deposit for the net of what they sold, no returns or other nonsense.

From break to liquidity in 24 hours.

There is a lot to hate about it, but it is true vertical integration. The other alternative is that you wait weeks, months, or years for the alphabet soup TPG of our choice to grade it.

This is a great idea if you work for Fanatics.

If this happens, the "bots" will for sure be scrambling doing tricks to be the ones who buy first and make us all miss the release

[hotcalsun]

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

This is a great idea if you work for Fanatics.

If this happens, the "bots" will for sure be scrambling doing tricks to be the ones who buy first and make us all miss the release

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

That works if there's excess value remaining for flippers to exploit. With the current arrangement of a fractured industry, there is plenty of inefficiencies and excess value to exploit. But the assumption is Fanatics' vertical integration and de-facto monopolization will soak up excess value and maximize pricing.

It would seem to be appealing for anyone who needs or wants immediate liquidity, not just Fanatics. It is not appealing to me, I do not want or need immediate liquidity. I also like to open my own cards and do not participate in breaks.

There will always be excess value remaining somewhere, even if it is just at the individual player level.

What really gets crazy is if enough inventory gets stored somewhere that people could short certain cards or players, as well as have put and call options on them -- betting for or against their performance. I try not to think about that because that would probably blow my mind and worries the collector part in me.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It would seem to be appealing for anyone who needs or wants immediate liquidity, not just Fanatics. It is not appealing to me, I do not want or need immediate liquidity. I also like to open my own cards and do not participate in breaks.

There will always be excess value remaining somewhere, even if it is just at the individual player level.

What really gets crazy is if enough inventory gets stored somewhere that people could short certain cards or players, as well as have put and call options on them -- betting for or against their performance. I try not to think about that because that would probably blow my mind and worries the collector part in me.

The more they can turn cards into financial investments, the more money they'll make on it. They'll just collect fees.

[k13]

Originally Posted by hotcalsun

It would seem to be appealing for anyone who needs or wants immediate liquidity, not just Fanatics. It is not appealing to me, I do not want or need immediate liquidity. I also like to open my own cards and do not participate in breaks.

There will always be excess value remaining somewhere, even if it is just at the individual player level.

What really gets crazy is if enough inventory gets stored somewhere that people could short certain cards or players, as well as have put and call options on them -- betting for or against their performance. I try not to think about that because that would probably blow my mind and worries the collector part in me.

Short every hot card that comes out and you'll be a billionaire...