Topps out---Fanatics in

[ThoseBackPages]

Soccer has passed NHL. it is what it is.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

He responded quick lol!

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

Look at what you are listing! You are listing brands, owned and used by Topps, that are not simply Topps 1, 2, 3! LOL. That is what I am saying. All those set names, are owned IP and needed to make those sets! Yes, you have chrome and no chrome versions for different sets, but you still need to have those different sets.

You cant just use Fanatics on everything. You need brands, like Topps using "Heritage", "Bowman", "Sterling", "Platinum", "Allen & Ginter", "Chrome", "Transcendent", "Stadium Club", "Finest", "Fire", "Diamond Icons", "Dynasty", "5 Star", "Gallery", "Gold Label", "Gypsy Queen", "Inception", "Museum Collection" and on and on and on.

Yes, Topps puts their name on those sets. But those sets all have their own brand names. And names the hobby knows. And that is not including the Football and NBA side that each have their own stable of known brands.

Do you really think its as easy as just calling everything Fanatics this that and another, and creating demand for brand new sets and brands that no one has ever bought or seen before?

No, it is easier to not have to create everything from scratch. And that includes building a company to make, market and sell sports cards.

Trust me, fanatics will absolutely buy out at least one existing card maker. They have to. And my money is on them pitching the same thing to the leagues when they cut this exclusive deal.

You mean all of those sets that they've created, outside of the Bowman name, which they bought the company. You are trying to say that Fanatics needs to come up with 20-30 separate, completely different brands. I know "Chrome" is it's own brand, but it's just shiny versions of other sets. How many of those high end sets look similar, there's a few. Outside of Heritage and A&G, a lot of those names mean very little. Stadium club isn't that much different than flagship, just a variation of the types of pictures they use.

You have a 3 set flagship product, throw a chrome/prizm version of each, make a cheap version for the kids. Boom, there's 7 sets. Have a portrait sitting style type card (there's your A&G style set), have a set that's just head shots (there's your Gallery), create a background and put it behind a picture taken during a game (there's your Gypsy Queen), create a smoke style or shape style background (There's your Fire/Inception/Prizm). Make chrome/prizm versions. There's 10 more sets. Oh, this is stuff they are going to have to do even if they buy the existing names. You're saving the brand building process and that's about it. Coming up with names for sets is not that difficult. Finest? Diamond Icons? Gold Label? They didn't create Allen & Ginter, that's a line they purchased 15 years ago, it's not a Topps legacy brand.

The card hobby landscape has changed over the last couple years. I'm not saying they won't buy one of the existing companies, but I don't agree that the HAVE to buy one. Not when they are going to be the only player in the field. Unless the hobby just dies on its own, there's going to be demand for cards. As far as building from scratch, you've got two large companies that are going to have quite a few people in the design departments that may be looking for work. Look at some of the custom work that's shown here. Finding people to create appealing sets is not going to be hard. And Fanatics is a marketing machine. And they've got roughly 5 years to build this company before they are thrown to the wolves.

I could see them setting up programs similar to their ambassador and affiliate programs they already have. They got a guy from StockX in charge of this arm of the company. There's a whole market that isn't brand loyal. I see them reaching out to the like of SashaT and SCI, the big names on YouTube and creating some type of partnership with those guys. I see them reaching out to the top breakers and setting up some type of partnership. The amount of money they've thrown at getting licenses, I guarantee they are going to build a massive hype train behind it. And don't act like the sports or player's association care that much about the history/legacy of sports cards, they care about making the most money for themselves. And these new agreements include some type of ownership/stake for the sports and the players, so they are going to back the new stuff 100%.

[Raleigh504]

I think it would be funny if Fanatics created a brand (either) called: Tops Flagship or Toppps Flagship

[BigRhino]

It does seem like a daunting task to start all new brands but tbh they can just do what Panini has been doing for years which is copy whatever topps does. Blueprints are pretty much laid out there for them.
Just need a base set, chrome/metal version of that, a couple random sets with distinct themes and some high end sets. (Of course easier said than done but being the only licensed cards makes it alot easier since you dont have to worry about competitors so much) They should do something similar to contenders for football and of course an on demand card system ("Fanatics Current Events"). Then in a few years they can copy project 2020/70 for every sport with artists (NBA would be awesome).

It's a lot of work but there are two major card companies that may have to fire a bunch of employees in the next few years and guess who will have a bunch of new job offerings

[BigRhino]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You mean all of those sets that they've created, outside of the Bowman name, which they bought the company. You are trying to say that Fanatics needs to come up with 20-30 separate, completely different brands. I know "Chrome" is it's own brand, but it's just shiny versions of other sets. How many of those high end sets look similar, there's a few. Outside of Heritage and A&G, a lot of those names mean very little. Stadium club isn't that much different than flagship, just a variation of the types of pictures they use.

You have a 3 set flagship product, throw a chrome/prizm version of each, make a cheap version for the kids. Boom, there's 7 sets. Have a portrait sitting style type card (there's your A&G style set), have a set that's just head shots (there's your Gallery), create a background and put it behind a picture taken during a game (there's your Gypsy Queen), create a smoke style or shape style background (There's your Fire/Inception/Prizm). Make chrome/prizm versions. There's 10 more sets. Oh, this is stuff they are going to have to do even if they buy the existing names. You're saving the brand building process and that's about it. Coming up with names for sets is not that difficult. Finest? Diamond Icons? Gold Label? They didn't create Allen & Ginter, that's a line they purchased 15 years ago, it's not a Topps legacy brand.

The card hobby landscape has changed over the last couple years. I'm not saying they won't buy one of the existing companies, but I don't agree that the HAVE to buy one. Not when they are going to be the only player in the field. Unless the hobby just dies on its own, there's going to be demand for cards. As far as building from scratch, you've got two large companies that are going to have quite a few people in the design departments that may be looking for work. Look at some of the custom work that's shown here. Finding people to create appealing sets is not going to be hard. And Fanatics is a marketing machine. And they've got roughly 5 years to build this company before they are thrown to the wolves.

Lol just read this after I posted. We are on the same page

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by BigRhino

Lol just read this after I posted. We are on the same page

Will there maybe be some skinny years starting out, very possible. Fanatics has the ability to withstand those years as they build up their own brand, if that's the route they choose to go. This isn't some new start up company, this is a company that's going to have the ability to weather the storm. And one of their licenses is 20 years, they are in it for the long haul. 3-5 years to come up with 4-5 different designs for some base sets isn't that daunting of a task. Buying the names takes one small step out of the process.

The history and legacy and Topps loyalty may be important to baseball card collectors, but it's not in the whole card hobby landscape. Look at the National thread about how much new blood with their Pelican cases filled with 5 figure cards there were. Look at what's being set up at your local card shows, I bet it's a combination of vintage, graded and high value stuff. I'm not seeing that changing with a new company taking over.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Why can't they? Topps has turned flagship into multiple sets. Series 1, Series 2, Update Series. Opening Day is just a variation. Clearly Authentic is an acetate auto set of flagship. Chrome is just shiny flagship. Chrome Black and Chrome Platinum are just variations of Chrome. Tribute, Teir One, Triple Threads, Dynasty, Museum could probably be consolidated into 1 or 2 products. Topps instead of coming up with new sets has just slapped Chrome on all of their existing products. A&G Chrome? Or recycled products. Heritage uses designs from the past. Archives does the same thing. Archives Signature, Active and Retired series. They made two sets of buying up cards from the quarter boxes and having the players sign them. Hate to say it, but there's not a whole lot of innovation there.

I agree that Topps has not been very innovative with their mainstream releases.

But they've been very innovative with their D-to-C stuff that they sell on their website (Topps Now, Topps Living, Throwback Thursdays, 5x7 sets, Project 2020, Project 70, 582 Montgomery Club, etc.).

And that's the stuff that has higher profit margins, since Topps cuts out the middleman (i.e. distributors) and sells directly to collectors.

[Rooftop]

Whatever they produce, If you don't like em, you sure as hell don't have to buy em

[Grid]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You mean all of those sets that they've created, outside of the Bowman name, which they bought the company. You are trying to say that Fanatics needs to come up with 20-30 separate, completely different brands. I know "Chrome" is it's own brand, but it's just shiny versions of other sets. How many of those high end sets look similar, there's a few. Outside of Heritage and A&G, a lot of those names mean very little. Stadium club isn't that much different than flagship, just a variation of the types of pictures they use.

You have a 3 set flagship product, throw a chrome/prizm version of each, make a cheap version for the kids. Boom, there's 7 sets. Have a portrait sitting style type card (there's your A&G style set), have a set that's just head shots (there's your Gallery), create a background and put it behind a picture taken during a game (there's your Gypsy Queen), create a smoke style or shape style background (There's your Fire/Inception/Prizm). Make chrome/prizm versions. There's 10 more sets. Oh, this is stuff they are going to have to do even if they buy the existing names. You're saving the brand building process and that's about it. Coming up with names for sets is not that difficult. Finest? Diamond Icons? Gold Label? They didn't create Allen & Ginter, that's a line they purchased 15 years ago, it's not a Topps legacy brand.

The card hobby landscape has changed over the last couple years. I'm not saying they won't buy one of the existing companies, but I don't agree that the HAVE to buy one. Not when they are going to be the only player in the field. Unless the hobby just dies on its own, there's going to be demand for cards. As far as building from scratch, you've got two large companies that are going to have quite a few people in the design departments that may be looking for work. Look at some of the custom work that's shown here. Finding people to create appealing sets is not going to be hard. And Fanatics is a marketing machine. And they've got roughly 5 years to build this company before they are thrown to the wolves.

I could see them setting up programs similar to their ambassador and affiliate programs they already have. They got a guy from StockX in charge of this arm of the company. There's a whole market that isn't brand loyal. I see them reaching out to the like of SashaT and SCI, the big names on YouTube and creating some type of partnership with those guys. I see them reaching out to the top breakers and setting up some type of partnership. The amount of money they've thrown at getting licenses, I guarantee they are going to build a massive hype train behind it. And don't act like the sports or player's association care that much about the history/legacy of sports cards, they care about making the most money for themselves. And these new agreements include some type of ownership/stake for the sports and the players, so they are going to back the new stuff 100%.

Read back through this thread. You are just regurgitating some of the stuff I first outlined, with their ambassador and affiliate programs.

You are missing the point on branding! Set names are brands as well! That is why Panini cant create a product called Panini Stadium Club. Or Topps cant do Bowman National Treasures. And all those brands usually have their own copyrighted logo as well.

You are being very narrow sited here, trying to force your argument. Do they have to buy one of the big 3? No, no they do not. Would it make sense, for the right price? Yes, absolutely without a doubt!

And for the record, Fanatics is not a marketing machine at all. The do very well selling their platform (the website) and bringing in business via their affiliates. But that is all done for them to sell other peoples brands, not their own. They are just like Amazon. Its just an online mall for you to buy stuff, that is made by other companies.

Go on and name ANY brands that Fanatics has created. I'll wait.

The closest they came, was gaining the rights to make MLB gear, even before they had a means to stitch a single jersey. That forced the old MLB partner out of business, Majestic. And once they were on their heals, Fanatics came in and bought Majestic for a song, since they were worth so little without the MLB rights.

They took over their name, staff, distribution points and factories, and fired right back up fully in control. The company is still called Majestic, but its now fully owned by Fanatics.

Any of that sound familiar to what I have been saying?

[Grid]

Originally Posted by BigRhino

It does seem like a daunting task to start all new brands but tbh they can just do what Panini has been doing for years which is copy whatever topps does. Blueprints are pretty much laid out there for them.
Just need a base set, chrome/metal version of that, a couple random sets with distinct themes and some high end sets. (Of course easier said than done but being the only licensed cards makes it alot easier since you dont have to worry about competitors so much) They should do something similar to contenders for football and of course an on demand card system ("Fanatics Current Events"). Then in a few years they can copy project 2020/70 for every sport with artists (NBA would be awesome).

It's a lot of work but there are two major card companies that may have to fire a bunch of employees in the next few years and guess who will have a bunch of new job offerings

You have to remember, they aren't just making baseball cards. If they have the same demands on them, that the NFL put on Panini, they would have to produce 50 different sets per season. And thats just for that one sport. You really cant stretch your blueprint that far.

Even Panini, which owns so many product brands and set names, thanks to them buying Playoff, which bought out Donruss, which bought out Score, which bought Pinnacle ETC, still gets complained about for watering down so many sets (Contenders, Contenders Optic, Contenders Draft ETC)

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by notoriousrmb

Going to be funny to watch the reactions here when its found out that Topps isn't selling and Fanatics will be going on their own without the Topps name.

No one even knows if Fanatics will have a "flagship" series. What if their base set is packs you get only when buying a jersey? What if they have a bunch of multi-sport offerings?

I agree, there IS a lot of logic in the acquisition of existing brands, but let's prepare for the fact they go a completely different direction which is nothing like the current setup.

Fanatics doesn't have to buy Topps outright to acquire its brands. They can partner (a very unequal partnership of course) and Topps isn't in any kind of position to refuse a reasonable deal from anyone. Showing everyone who's boss was at least some of the point of blindsiding its leadership.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

Read back through this thread. You are just regurgitating some of the stuff I first outlined, with their ambassador and affiliate programs.

You are missing the point on branding! Set names are brands as well! That is why Panini cant create a product called Panini Stadium Club. Or Topps cant do Bowman National Treasures. And all those brands usually have their own copyrighted logo as well.

You are being very narrow sited here, trying to force your argument. Do they have to buy one of the big 3? No, no they do not. Would it make sense, for the right price? Yes, absolutely without a doubt!

And for the record, Fanatics is not a marketing machine at all. The do very well selling their platform (the website) and bringing in business via their affiliates. But that is all done for them to sell other peoples brands, not their own. They are just like Amazon. Its just an online mall for you to buy stuff, that is made by other companies.

Go on and name ANY brands that Fanatics has created. I'll wait.

The closest they came, was gaining the rights to make MLB gear, even before they had a means to stitch a single jersey. That forced the old MLB partner out of business, Majestic. And once they were on their heals, Fanatics came in and bought Majestic for a song, since they were worth so little without the MLB rights.

They took over their name, staff, distribution points and factories, and fired right back up fully in control. The company is still called Majestic, but its now fully owned by Fanatics.

Any of that sound familiar to what I have been saying?

You said they HAVE to buy one of the big companies, go back and read what you wrote. They absolutely do not have to.

Yes, I understand that Panini can't make a set called Stadium Club, but they certainly could have made a set in that exact same style and just called it something different.

Fanatics has made it's name as a clothing and memorabilia company. They don't need to create 20 different brands of T-shirts. However, here's a list of styles I pulled just from the first page of Braves shirts made by the Fanatics Brand: True Classics, Weathered, Total Dedication, Cooperstown Collection, Midnight Mascot, Win Stripe, Iconic League, Front Line, Mascot In Bounds, Wordmark, Logo Lockup, Shadow Stripe, End Game, Heart & Soul. Those are all essential brands for Fanatics. Stadium Club isn't a brand that makes cards. Topps makes cards and calls them Stadium Club. You don't think Fanatics could do the same thing?

Amazon does just fine with its own brands as well. They aren't just an online mall. Fire, Kindle, Basics, Essential, and the 100+ other private label brands they own. And selling their platform isn't marketing? Convincing other companies to work with you and through you is all marketing.

[k13]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

how many in America will have any idea who that is, or even care?

That tells you something. No one knows who he is yet he'll sell higher than soto/acuna/tatis.

Americans bought Kaprizov Young Guns from me so they obviously care....

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Fanatics doesn't have to buy Topps outright to acquire its brands. They can partner (a very unequal partnership of course) and Topps isn't in any kind of position to refuse a reasonable deal from anyone. Showing everyone who's boss was at least some of the point of blindsiding its leadership.

Very true! A license and lease thing could very well happen. Although I could see Fanatics wanting to set themselves up for the future, and an indefinite renewal to Topps to keep using their IP, might be troublesome.

Just like when Panini bought Playoff, they ended up ditching the Leaf brand, since they didn't own it. DLP just licensed the use of it for sports cards. Growing someones elses IP didn't make as much sense, as investing and growing your own.

But, in that instance, Panini still had a boatload of other brands they could use instead of Leaf. So, who knows. Anything can happen.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

You have to remember, they aren't just making baseball cards. If they have the same demands on them, that the NFL put on Panini, they would have to produce 50 different sets per season. And thats just for that one sport. You really cant stretch your blueprint that far.

Even Panini, which owns so many product brands and set names, thanks to them buying Playoff, which bought out Donruss, which bought out Score, which bought Pinnacle ETC, still gets complained about for watering down so many sets (Contenders, Contenders Optic, Contenders Draft ETC)

Same style across every sport. All you're doing is changing the picture on the card. Panini and Topps did the same thing.

Blaming Panini or Topps for being watered down because a sport wants 50 sets is ridiculous. If you think things are becoming watered down, you should be blaming the sport that is requiring so many sets each year.

The name is just a name, Panini buying the Score name didn't buy them any new designs, it bought them a name to slap on a design they came up with. Panini still had to grow those names back up themselves. Most of that history faded after not being around for 15-20 years.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by Grid

Very true! A license and lease thing could very well happen. Although I could see Fanatics wanting to set themselves up for the future, and an indefinite renewal to Topps to keep using their IP, might be troublesome.

Just like when Panini bought Playoff, they ended up ditching the Leaf brand, since they didn't own it. DLP just licensed the use of it for sports cards. Growing someones elses IP didn't make as much sense, as investing and growing your own.

But, in that instance, Panini still had a boatload of other brands they could use instead of Leaf. So, who knows. Anything can happen.

It’s still a shame the leaf name is now associated with garbage

[Grid]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You said they HAVE to buy one of the big companies, go back and read what you wrote. They absolutely do not have to.

Yes, I understand that Panini can't make a set called Stadium Club, but they certainly could have made a set in that exact same style and just called it something different.

Fanatics has made it's name as a clothing and memorabilia company. They don't need to create 20 different brands of T-shirts. However, here's a list of styles I pulled just from the first page of Braves shirts made by the Fanatics Brand: True Classics, Weathered, Total Dedication, Cooperstown Collection, Midnight Mascot, Win Stripe, Iconic League, Front Line, Mascot In Bounds, Wordmark, Logo Lockup, Shadow Stripe, End Game, Heart & Soul. Those are all essential brands for Fanatics. Stadium Club isn't a brand that makes cards. Topps makes cards and calls them Stadium Club. You don't think Fanatics could do the same thing?

Amazon does just fine with its own brands as well. They aren't just an online mall. Fire, Kindle, Basics, Essential, and the 100+ other private label brands they own. And selling their platform isn't marketing? Convincing other companies to work with you and through you is all marketing.

It is like I am talking to my 5 year old here. Convincing other companies to let you sell their stuff, is not the same as creating and marketing new brands to a hobby.

From my post, that you just quoted "Do they have to buy one of the big 3? No, no they do not. Would it make sense, for the right price? Yes, absolutely without a doubt!"

It would absolutely make much more sense for them to buy out one of the other 3. And in a buyout of this type, the first one of them to sell would probably get the most money out of Fanatics.

Once they buy Panini America, Topps wouldn't be needed as much, since Fanatics will now have a corporate office for cards, direct lines to existing printers, a staff fully capable of producing cards and, most importantly, a stockpile of bands and IP's to use.

Again, do they have to? No! Has their history shown they would (majestic) Yes! Can anyone realistically argue that it would make more sense for them to start 100% from scratch? I do not believe so, and almost 80 pages into this thread alone, I haven't seen anyone make that argument.

And your list of Fanatics "brands" are just inventory and style markers, used to sell different shirts and such. The IP, in your example, is the Braves. You are not going there to buy a blank T-Shirt Just because you like the style of their "Win Stripe" collection or because you heard great things about their "Front Line" series of tops. They sell a "Weathered" collection of shirts, that are made to look worn and beaten in. "weathered" is the style, and lets the consumer know what collection they are buying from. That way, if they like that weathered Brave shirt, they can view other weathered shirts in that series. It is not an intellectual property onto itself.

You are confusing the names of apparel collections with actual IP brands.

Look, I am not going to argue the point. Everything is speculation here, and I am just contributing thoughts as everyone else in this thread is doing. Yes, I run a company that has gone through mergers and accusations before. Yes, I am and have been a partner, and supplier, to fanatics for years now. I am not typing hyperbole for fun.

You do not have to agree with me, for me to be right with my assessment of likely paths they would take.

But I have yet to read anything by you, to the contrary, on why you think it would make more sense for them to NOT buy a bruised and deflated Topps/Panini America, and why it would make more sense for them to start up everything, and I mean everything from designs, brands and marketplaces, to staff and office chairs in their new sports card division.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Same style across every sport. All you're doing is changing the picture on the card. Panini and Topps did the same thing.

Blaming Panini or Topps for being watered down because a sport wants 50 sets is ridiculous. If you think things are becoming watered down, you should be blaming the sport that is requiring so many sets each year.

The name is just a name, Panini buying the Score name didn't buy them any new designs, it bought them a name to slap on a design they came up with. Panini still had to grow those names back up themselves. Most of that history faded after not being around for 15-20 years.

I am truly dazzled by your posts! I am not blaming anyone for anything. Do you even read what you quote of mine? Are you just trying to find a way to be combative, just for fun?

I said Panini "still gets complained about for watering down so many sets" How is that me blaming them for anything? The 50 set a year number is not mine, its fact. Good, bad or indifferent, it is what it is. I am not complaining about it, I am simply stating its existence.

Panini buying the Score name, immediately gave them a brand that was in the Hobby for 30 years before Panini entered sports cards. It gave them a name, a Logo and the history of the brand design to use as they saw fit. They even started making throwback cards, using those old Score designs that they now owned.

And Score was just one lone brand, and something Panini just used for retail offerings anyway. As you pointed out correctly, it was not the strongest brand in their stable at all. But, it was something they got for free when they bought out DLP.

I highly doubt they could have grown the company just on the back of the Score name. That alone probably wasn't strong enough, even though it did have more recognition in the hobby than Panini itself had at the time.

I assume you are using that to prove your point, that brands are not needed. And that is why you failed to mention that they also got the Donruss, Playoff, Pinnacle, Select ETC brands as well. They didnt build their company around Score. They did so with all the other IP that DLP had assembled. And why did they buyout so many other IPs? Because the hobby loves brands.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

And your list of Fanatics "brands" are just inventory and style markers, used to sell different shirts and such. The IP, in your example, is the Braves. You are not going there to buy a blank T-Shirt Just because you like the style of their "Win Stripe" collection or because you heard great things about their "Front Line" series of tops. They sell a "Weathered" collection of shirts, that are made to look worn and beaten in. "weathered" is the style, and lets the consumer know what collection they are buying from. That way, if they like that weathered Brave shirt, they can view other weathered shirts in that series. It is not an intellectual property onto itself.

You are confusing the names of apparel collections with actual IP brands.

Tell me how it's different. The card market and the clothing market are different. But stop acting like Heritage and A&G and Stadium Club are separate brands/companies/whatever. When you get down to the basics, they are different styles of the exact same thing. The material might be different, the design on it might be different, but it's still a baseball card. And as you said, you aren't buying a blank t-shirt just because it's that style. Guess what, you aren't buying a blank baseball card because of that style. You're buying because of the logo on it or the player picture.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Grid

I am truly dazzled by your posts! I am not blaming anyone for anything. Do you even read what you quote of mine? Are you just trying to find a way to be combative, just for fun?

I said Panini "still gets complained about for watering down so many sets" How is that me blaming them for anything? The 50 set a year number is not mine, its fact. Good, bad or indifferent, it is what it is. I am not complaining about it, I am simply stating its existence.

Panini buying the Score name, immediately gave them a brand that was in the Hobby for 30 years before Panini entered sports cards. It gave them a name, a Logo and the history of the brand design to use as they saw fit. They even started making throwback cards, using those old Score designs that they now owned.

And Score was just one lone brand, and something Panini just used for retail offerings anyway. As you pointed out correctly, it was not the strongest brand in their stable at all. But, it was something they got for free when they bought out DLP.

I highly doubt they could have grown the company just on the back of the Score name. I assume you are using that to prove your point, that brands are not needed. And that is why you failed to mention that they also got the Donruss, Playoff, Pinnacle, Select ETC brands as well.

If you're complaining about Panini being watered down, you're blaming Panini for it. If you're complaining about Topps being watered down, you're blaming Topps. If you're complaining that baseball cards in general have too many sets across all companies, you're blaming MLB.

[BigRhino]

Originally Posted by Grid

It is like I am talking to my 5 year old here. Convincing other companies to let you sell their stuff, is not the same as creating and marketing new brands to a hobby.

From my post, that you just quoted "Do they have to buy one of the big 3? No, no they do not. Would it make sense, for the right price? Yes, absolutely without a doubt!"

It would absolutely make much more sense for them to buy out one of the other 3. And in a buyout of this type, the first one of them to sell would probably get the most money out of Fanatics.

Once they buy Panini America, Topps wouldn't be needed as much, since Fanatics will now have a corporate office for cards, direct lines to existing printers, a staff fully capable of producing cards and, most importantly, a stockpile of bands and IP's to use.

Again, do they have to? No! Has their history shown they would (majestic) Yes! Can anyone realistically argue that it would make more sense for them to start 100% from scratch? I do not believe so, and almost 80 pages into this thread alone, I haven't seen anyone make that argument.

And your list of Fanatics "brands" are just inventory and style markers, used to sell different shirts and such. The IP, in your example, is the Braves. You are not going there to buy a blank T-Shirt Just because you like the style of their "Win Stripe" collection or because you heard great things about their "Front Line" series of tops. They sell a "Weathered" collection of shirts, that are made to look worn and beaten in. "weathered" is the style, and lets the consumer know what collection they are buying from. That way, if they like that weathered Brave shirt, they can view other weathered shirts in that series. It is not an intellectual property onto itself.

You are confusing the names of apparel collections with actual IP brands.

Look, I am not going to argue the point. Everything is speculation here, and I am just contributing thoughts as everyone else in this thread is doing. Yes, I run a company that has gone through mergers and accusations before. Yes, I am and have been a partner, and supplier, to fanatics for years now. I am not typing hyperbole for fun.

You do not have to agree with me, for me to be right with my assessment of likely paths they would take.

But I have yet to read anything by you, to the contrary, on why you think it would make more sense for them to NOT buy a bruised and deflated Topps/Panini America, and why it would make more sense for them to start up everything, and I mean everything from designs, brands and marketplaces, to staff and office chairs in their new sports card division.

Ok this does seem plausible that they try to get either of topps or panini. But it begs the question, why not try to buy one of them first and then go after these exclusive licenses? Now that they have stabbed everyone in the back, will they be able to make a deal with either of them? Possibly, who knows. Seems like a bad strategy to me tho, especially since money appears to be no object to fanatics

[nera20]

i think the Fanatics deal could end up being a good thingfor the hobby they can go to topps, upper deck, and panini and say you work for us and produce the products since we have all the rights and for each sport they are required to produce 15 products a year for each sport and and all products contain team logos and names.

This way as a hobby the collectors get more choices and no non licensed products.

Football and basketball get Topps Chrome, Topps Flagship, Definitive

Basketball, Baseball and Football get Exquisite, Sp Authentic again

Baseball gets Flawless, National Treasures

All with Logos again

Could be great for the Hobby and Collectors

Only flippers may have a issue with somethings

Overall if handled the right way this could be fantastic but only time will tell.

[JRX]

A few things:

1. Fanatics buying topps and making topps is no different than Eisner's group buying topps and making topps, the original owners are long gone.

2. Fanatics is basically Upper Deck, I think all the other card companies were originally gum manufacturers.

3. We have no idea what Fanatics will do, but they're obv going to do a lot of high margin products that probably will involve selling direct and things like NFTs. For as much as many people on this board mock P2020/P70, those releases have made topps a boatload.

4. Whatever Fanatics does end up doing, a lot of it will probably be similar to what topps was planning to do after going public. Once they turn public, they would focus more and more on cutting expenses, increasing margins, selling direct, nfts, etc. If they got big enough post going public they may have ended up going after nfl and nba licenses. I think in the end the hobby will be in a similar place, its just a matter if there are topps logos.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by JRX

A few things:

1. Fanatics buying topps and making topps is no different than Eisner's group buying topps and making topps, the original owners are long gone.

2. Fanatics is basically Upper Deck, I think all the other card companies were originally gum manufacturers.

3. We have no idea what Fanatics will do, but they're obv going to do a lot of high margin products that probably will involve selling direct and things like NFTs. For as much as many people on this board mock P2020/P70, those releases have made topps a boatload.

4. Whatever Fanatics does end up doing, a lot of it will probably be similar to what topps was planning to do after going public. Once they turn public, they would focus more and more on cutting expenses, increasing margins, selling direct, nfts, etc. If they got big enough post going public they may have ended up going after nfl and nba licenses. I think in the end the hobby will be in a similar place, its just a matter if there are topps logos.

and my fear is there will not be