Where does Ben Simmons go next?

[brothertona]

Ben Simmons makes no sense on the Raptors, the Sixers need a new PG, and the Raptors need a big. The Hawks get to buy low on a defensive anchor that would likely fit much much better with them surrounded by shooters than in Philly. The Raptors get a big - then can grab Suggs and are pretty set and the Sixers get a PG and a wild-card in Huerter.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by brothertona

Ben Simmons makes no sense on the Raptors, the Sixers need a new PG, and the Raptors need a big. The Hawks get to buy low on a defensive anchor that would likely fit much much better with them surrounded by shooters than in Philly. The Raptors get a big - then can grab Suggs and are pretty set and the Sixers get a PG and a wild-card in Huerter.

yeah he does.

new core of FVV/suggs/OG/simmons ain't bad.... plus there's plenty of bigs that should be gettable this offseason, including Holmes, who's a ufa

[daeve]

Originally Posted by brothertona

Ben Simmons makes no sense on the Raptors, the Sixers need a new PG, and the Raptors need a big. The Hawks get to buy low on a defensive anchor that would likely fit much much better with them surrounded by shooters than in Philly. The Raptors get a big - then can grab Suggs and are pretty set and the Sixers get a PG and a wild-card in Huerter.

well but in this scenario you've given, Hawks give up 2 shooters and now have simmons and Capela... Capela is already a better defensive "anchor" than simmons, and also can't space the floor.

Unless schlenk would already have a deal in place to move Capela for a shooter, I don't really like the deal. We also have a young stud in-waiting in Okongwu, who also won't work with simmons.

From the perspective that schlenk has built a tremendously versatile team based on 4-shooters with a defensive-5, and this team already made the ECF, I don't think we want to deviate from this plan to try and unlock what is likely unlockable in simmons. I'd rather some other team gamble on turning him into Draymond 2.0 because I don't see it as a given.

[gomiamigo]

On that list it looks like Dame, Beal, PG, and LaVine that are good enough and make enough sense on the 76ers & fit salaries. Morey ain't trading Ben for Conley, that's for sure.

76ers can keep Ben and sign Lowry, fwiw, depending on what salary he thinks he's gonna get [hint - not $30m anymore lol]. Don't know why you would trade Ben for him doesn't make sense.

Guys like Luka, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis, AD obviously unavailable.

[yiguiri2002]

I love Zach and how much he's improved but I'll be inclined to trade him for Simmons. At this point though, I think he's more valuable. Would Philly send their pick and Thybulle on top?

[daeve]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I love Zach and how much he's improved but I'll be inclined to trade him for Simmons. At this point though, I think he's more valuable. Would Philly send their pick and Thybulle on top?

I think Lavine would be about the ceiling for the type of 'star' they can get for Simmons. I could see Morey pulling the trigger for-sure. I don't know about the fit for Chicago though, unless they have seemingly changed their minds and do want to keep Markkannen.

I think developing Patrick Williams and his game with Coby should be their #1 priority though, and I don't know that Simmons necessarily helps that, though P Dub has shown a bit of a 3-and-D ability, so maybe it does work if he can continue to improve on his outside shot. For the record he did shoot 39%, but on just under 2 attempts per game and with Lavine being there to stretch the D, so not sure how sustainable that is, but it's not nothing.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by daeve

I think Lavine would be about the ceiling for the type of 'star' they can get for Simmons. I could see Morey pulling the trigger for-sure. I don't know about the fit for Chicago though, unless they have seemingly changed their minds and do want to keep Markkannen.

I think developing Patrick Williams and his game with Coby should be their #1 priority though, and I don't know that Simmons necessarily helps that, though P Dub has shown a bit of a 3-and-D ability, so maybe it does work if he can continue to improve on his outside shot. For the record he did shoot 39%, but on just under 2 attempts per game and with Lavine being there to stretch the D, so not sure how sustainable that is, but it's not nothing.

I'm on the other side, I think it works great.

The team never had a real PG last year. For all his flaws, Ben is a ball handler. He can run the offense from the perimeter or from the post. Coby, bless his soul, is a shooter. Best case scenario Ben Gordon IMO. Someone like Ben is perfect next to him.

You can run the offense through Vuc while P Dub develops. Ben's usage is lower than Zach so there will be more than enough touches for everyone. Bringing Thad and even Lauri on a bench role back can put the team in the playoffs again.

[MavsRChamps]

I'm shocked that Simmons still has as much value as reported online in some of these trade scenarios. To me he's a solid player, but more of a high end role player type of guy. Seems like the Sixers asking price is pretty high.

[tennelson55]

Originally Posted by brothertona

I put together a trade that might make sense for that second case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You'd have to give up Collins somehow. No way they want Huerter.

I'd envision something like Simmons for Lowry/Collins and the 76ers giving up another asset with Simmons like 1st or prospect.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I'm on the other side, I think it works great.

The team never had a real PG last year. For all his flaws, Ben is a ball handler. He can run the offense from the perimeter or from the post. Coby, bless his soul, is a shooter. Best case scenario Ben Gordon IMO. Someone like Ben is perfect next to him.

You can run the offense through Vuc while P Dub develops. Ben's usage is lower than Zach so there will be more than enough touches for everyone. Bringing Thad and even Lauri on a bench role back can put the team in the playoffs again.

whoosh I had a massive brain fart and forgot Vuc is not expiring but is there on a relatively cheap deal for 2 more years. Yeah, I do like this fit better now.

They have some cheap contracts coming off the books, and some attractive mid-level expirings too, so yes they are ripe for a deal right now with Coby and P Dub on their rookie deals and developing.

and if they get outbid for Lauri they'll really have some money to play with to add some complementary pieces around a simmons/Coby/PW/Vucci core.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

I'm shocked that Simmons still has as much value as reported online in some of these trade scenarios. To me he's a solid player, but more of a high end role player type of guy. Seems like the Sixers asking price is pretty high.

Morey is a master at creating smokescreens - until a deal is done, we won't really know what his true value level is. I'm also guessing there's gonna be some big fluctuations in how GMs value him

[brothertona]

My view is Simmons plus Hunter/Bogi/Trae is surrounding Simmons with playmakers that can shoot. Also the thought around Onyeka is he's the type of big that can stretch out to the perimeter. A defensive front with Hunter/Reddish/Onyeka/Simmons is pretty freaking scary. Am I taking a huge risk on getting Simmons and thinking our system is much better than Philly's absolutely but I also believe I'm buying low on an asset- if you asked anyone last year what it would take for the Hawks to get Ben Simmons they'd say Trae Young to start with. I also feel that Capela would likely get moved regardless - I think his value will never be higher than right now. You mentioned it and I'd take a Dort plus 16 for Capela right now. Moving Huerter in the deal keeps me from having to pay him 90 million next year to keep him. He's very likely going to leap over the Kennard deal. Do I think any of this is likely probably not but if I had the chance to move JC this off-season it's likely for Ben Simmons or KAT or Jerami Grant. If any of the three were available for JC I'd pull the trigger quickly.

Originally Posted by daeve

well but in this scenario you've given, Hawks give up 2 shooters and now have simmons and Capela... Capela is already a better defensive "anchor" than simmons, and also can't space the floor.

Unless schlenk would already have a deal in place to move Capela for a shooter, I don't really like the deal. We also have a young stud in-waiting in Okongwu, who also won't work with simmons.

From the perspective that schlenk has built a tremendously versatile team based on 4-shooters with a defensive-5, and this team already made the ECF, I don't think we want to deviate from this plan to try and unlock what is likely unlockable in simmons. I'd rather some other team gamble on turning him into Draymond 2.0 because I don't see it as a given.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by daeve

well but in this scenario you've given, Hawks give up 2 shooters and now have simmons and Capela... Capela is already a better defensive "anchor" than simmons, and also can't space the floor.

Unless schlenk would already have a deal in place to move Capela for a shooter, I don't really like the deal. We also have a young stud in-waiting in Okongwu, who also won't work with simmons.

From the perspective that schlenk has built a tremendously versatile team based on 4-shooters with a defensive-5, and this team already made the ECF, I don't think we want to deviate from this plan to try and unlock what is likely unlockable in simmons. I'd rather some other team gamble on turning him into Draymond 2.0 because I don't see it as a given.

I agree. Take Collins off that team & suddenly they seem to be missing a player who has Collins' skillet. Go figure! Hawks can't try to get too cute this offseason. It is so incredibly difficult to find a frontcourt that works with spacing. The group of Collins/Gallanri + Capela/Okongwu is a major strength. If they need to cut costs, they've gotta' do it at their wing positions in my opinion.

[Above the Rim]

July 11 article by B.Siegel (Credentialed NBA Insider) for NBA Analysis Network - suggests McCollum for Ben Simmons. Always assume perhaps other token players/picks may be involved.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

I agree. Take Collins off that team & suddenly they seem to be missing a player who has Collins' skillet. Go figure! Hawks can't try to get too cute this offseason. It is so incredibly difficult to find a frontcourt that works with spacing. The group of Collins/Gallanri + Capela/Okongwu is a major strength. If they need to cut costs, they've gotta' do it at their wing positions in my opinion.

They could just extend Collins, wait for Gallo/Capela to expire then extend Okongwu. Fits in the timeline and can contend on the meantime.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by brothertona

My view is Simmons plus Hunter/Bogi/Trae is surrounding Simmons with playmakers that can shoot. Also the thought around Onyeka is he's the type of big that can stretch out to the perimeter. A defensive front with Hunter/Reddish/Onyeka/Simmons is pretty freaking scary. Am I taking a huge risk on getting Simmons and thinking our system is much better than Philly's absolutely but I also believe I'm buying low on an asset- if you asked anyone last year what it would take for the Hawks to get Ben Simmons they'd say Trae Young to start with. I also feel that Capela would likely get moved regardless - I think his value will never be higher than right now. You mentioned it and I'd take a Dort plus 16 for Capela right now. Moving Huerter in the deal keeps me from having to pay him 90 million next year to keep him. He's very likely going to leap over the Kennard deal. Do I think any of this is likely probably not but if I had the chance to move JC this off-season it's likely for Ben Simmons or KAT or Jerami Grant. If any of the three were available for JC I'd pull the trigger quickly.

I do agree that this is probably/maybe buying low on simmons, but I don't think that's absolute... We do agree on Capela being at likely peak value now. Plus Okongwu was a high lottery pick and he showed us the flashes in the playoffs, so he's the future 5 regardless.

If OO can show us a bit of a 'stretch' ability - then a deal for simmons may end up being a good move. I think the main holdup for me is moving Collins/Huerter right now. Both showed a bit above their usual ability in the 'yoffs and I'm curious to see if both/either has another gear. I think I mentioned it before, but Hunter's potential chronic knee issues and/or Bogi/Gallo overlapping skillsets make them the more expendable to me.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

I agree. Take Collins off that team & suddenly they seem to be missing a player who has Collins' skillet. Go figure! Hawks can't try to get too cute this offseason. It is so incredibly difficult to find a frontcourt that works with spacing. The group of Collins/Gallanri + Capela/Okongwu is a major strength. If they need to cut costs, they've gotta' do it at their wing positions in my opinion.

I agree. I think we had such good frontcourt rotations in the playoffs that it probably surprised our opponents.

[thejazzcollector]

Simmons on the Raptors or Bulls makes more sense to me than Simmons on the Hawks. The Hawks don't need to add a playmaker to facilitate for their shooters because they already have Trae Young, who is a playmaker AND can shoot. And like it has been mentioned, Capela already does a great job for them as their defensive anchor but it would be difficult to play him and Ben together.
And IMO if you add Ben to the team but have to take away Capela, that doesn't make you better either.
The scoring guards for Toronto and Chicago - FVV and Coby White - are not as ball dominant or as good of playmakers as Trae, which is where I could see Simmons fitting in better next to them.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I love Zach and how much he's improved but I'll be inclined to trade him for Simmons. At this point though, I think he's more valuable. Would Philly send their pick and Thybulle on top?

LMAO and Embiid also.


to make salaries match it'd be Zach and Aminu for Ben, maybe CHI has to throw in a late pick.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by MavsRChamps

To me he's a solid player, but more of a high end role player type of guy. Seems like the Sixers asking price is pretty high.

3x AllStar
All-nba last year
2x first Team all-Defense
Most 3s created
Most steals + blocks

=

role-player

Yeah maybe they can get TJ McConnell and Jeremy Lamb for him?

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by thejazzcollector

The scoring guards for Toronto and Chicago - FVV and Coby White - are not as ball dominant or as good of playmakers as Trae, which is where I could see Simmons fitting in better next to them.

The issue with TOR is that PHL can just sign Lowry and keep Ben. I don't see Masai overpaying Lowry in the hopes of a trade and if he does, why would PHL want an overpaid, aging Lowry on a bad deal?

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

3x AllStar
All-nba last year
2x first Team all-Defense
Most 3s created
Most steals + blocks

=

role-player

Yeah maybe they can get TJ McConnell and Jeremy Lamb for him?

He was the 4th best player on the Sixers in the Playoffs last year in my opinion, from an impact perspective & I watched all the games. Not saying he's a bad player but he's a defense-first guy - On offense he's a liability. I'm still perplexed at how he made the all-star game last year. I mean you're right in that accolades wise he presents as a "star" - But I don't know how anyone can watch the Sixers in the playoffs and think he was or is a "star" sort of guy. He's a solid guy to have in your lineup but he's secondary ideally to a legit primary ball handler that can score, a big that can run, & another wing scorer. He's best suited to be the 4th or 5th best player on a championship team. All my opinion. I actually like Simmons too for what he is - I think winning teams need a guy like him to do the intangibles, but he's not a main guy.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

LMAO and Embiid also.


to make salaries match it'd be Zach and Aminu for Ben, maybe CHI has to throw in a late pick.

Then they can keep him.

Zach is a better player than Ben right now and probably will be next season. He's gotten better the last 3 seasons while Simmons is the same player. Even with a shorter contract, I'll rather have Zach than Ben.

[drobfan8]

Man I love coming in here and laughing at the takes.

[indyguy]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

3x AllStar
All-nba last year
2x first Team all-Defense
Most 3s created
Most steals + blocks

=

role-player

Yeah maybe they can get TJ McConnell and Jeremy Lamb for him?

TJ McConnell lead the league in total steals, so you'd be lucky to get him.