NBA Top Shot - High Risk, High Reward?

[Wildcat55]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Why do people open wax if they aren’t going to keep every single card? Why have a marketplace at all if selling what you hit is so frowned upon? How am I not a target customer because I only am interested in one player?

I agree that TS has a number of things that need fixing, especially with new users getting access to a pack on sign up, and more engagement with maybe more frequent drops with less packs. Not sure what the right answer is but I’m sick and tired (like you) of constantly being #176,000 in line for 25,000 packs. Without these requirements, the barrier to sign up, put $14 in and be eligible for the $9 and $14 packs is quite low and the result are the queues we started to see with 300,000 in line...and that was only going to get worse.

It’s totally ok to admit that you joined this for the quick flip and not to collect Malcom Brogdon moments. I joined for the flip and freely admit it but also own 20+ moments of a few players I like and that I think have price appreciation ability or at the least have stable value in their commons.

“I'm signing up. Looks too easy.”....that was your first post on March 7th and I’m guessing you were not talking about how easy it was to buy Malcom Brogdon moments.

[Wildcat55]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

Yup I think we are on the same page. Requirements aren't necessarily a bad thing but they need to make sure they cover all types of collectors. No one should be punished for saving up and cashing in their moments for a higher value moment. They should have kept the condition that if you spent $99 in the marketplace you were good as long as you have at least 1 moment.

Yep..that last sentence 100%. A tier like 2 moments and $75 in transactions, 3 moments and $50, etc or some type of tier to not punish the guy that wants to collect high end players like LeBron or Luka but can’t afford the rare or ME ones.

[bravesballer]

Just made the moment requirement whew. I had bought up a bunch of Hawks moments a while back to build my PC and kept the good prospects I've opened so far. Still got a few hundo in dapper and few hundo worth of moments not bad for $20 investment and I started pretty late in the game but had some nice luck.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Nah, I just made my money back(withdrew) that I put into it and have enough in Dapper for a Holo Pack if I ever get lucky. Otherwise 1/3 of my account valuation is LaMelo,Luka and LeBron. The rest is mainly Series 1. I was in the Top 2% but have since been leapfrogged by over 600 people. I haven't really sold much since the big explosion.

Is there a reason why you didn't sell and take what I'm assuming would have been over $500,000 profit?

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Is there a reason why you didn't sell and take what I'm assuming would have been over $500,000 profit?

ROFL, $500K? Sh*t, I wish. I may have missed a decimal point. I collect sh*t. I'm in the black though.

[mossoholic]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

ROFL, $500K? Sh*t, I wish. I may have missed a decimal point. I collect sh*t. I'm in the black though.

Lol ok gotcha. I just figured when you said you were in the top 2% at one point, Series 1 moments, Luka, Lebron, Lamelo moments during the boom that you were rolling in the cash. It's still nice to be well ahead at least.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Lol ok gotcha. I just figured when you said you were in the top 2% at one point, Series 1 moments, Luka, Lebron, Lamelo moments during the boom that you were rolling in the cash. It's still nice to be well ahead at least.

I got in just at the tail end of the Series 1 pack releases but most of my value is tied to Series 2 LaMelo, I am a believer in him and he will be back for the last 10-15 regular season games. Everything else I pretty much got in packs but havent been really able to land any premium packs since the queue system started. With the Hornets on the cusp and likely playing in the pre-playoff tournament thing, he has a chance to shine. I think he locks up ROY. Haliburton tailed off and Edwards is probably leading now.

[drobfan8]

Of course I was on 14 moments also. Had to sell one moment so I didn't have to tip in more so I had enough to buy the Final moment I needed for the WB challenge which ends before the next drop. Fml.

Bummer but oh well.

Will make sure I have 20 moments asap.

Although I would like to grab a Luka or Zion 10k or 15k but maybe grabbing the cheapest rares are a better option.

I don't know.

Good luck all. At least I got some 2021 Prizm Retail on preorder to keep me tied over.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Of course I was on 14 moments also. Had to sell one moment so I didn't have to tip in more so I had enough to buy the Final moment I needed for the WB challenge which ends before the next drop. Fml.

Bummer but oh well.

Will make sure I have 20 moments asap.

Although I would like to grab a Luka or Zion 10k or 15k but maybe grabbing the cheapest rares are a better option.

I don't know.

Good luck all. At least I got some 2021 Prizm Retail on preorder to keep me tied over.

You need a Moment to get in the queue? It's only 15 for this drop.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

You need a Moment to get in the queue? It's only 15 for this drop.

The cut off has been and gone. You can't add moments now. It was a day or 2 ago

[Brobocop]

They don't want collectors, that's nonsense. They want money. You're a new user and want some packs for some delicious gains? Well, come on in, deposit like $100, and buy some moments!! Meanwhile, we make money off of every transaction. You got enough moments for a pack, good job!! Now, wait in a queue with a few hundred thousand people and hope your ticket gets pulled. It didn't? That sucks. Better luck next time. Oh, and uh, buy more moments because the threshold is going up for the next big pack. You need five more moments, get to spending (your own money now). Nice, you got 20 moments and have put in about $150 of your own money. Here's a cool cats pack. Oh, you got a Bogdan CC, well, that's like a cool $20 moment you could sell, OR, you can hold it because the next big pack drop is going to have a 25 moment threshold. Oh, you don't wanna play anymore and want to sell your collection, take your losses, and go home? Well, to be able to get withdrawal privilege, you're going to have to wait a bit. Why not, buy some more moments to pass the time. Now, here comes a super deluxe pack, only $499, and you have the required amount of moments!! Congrats...............oh, wait, you haven't spent $1,000 yet in the marketplace, sorry, you don't qualify.

Yeah, this is totally new user friendly. Gud jerb!!!

[omega145]

Is the "snapshot" of your moments actually verified as something that Top Shot does?

I had 12 moments and bought 3 last night in an attempt to get one of these premium packs. Sounds like I won't be able to get the premium pack but wondering if the idea of the "snapshot" is more to scare people away from doing this or an actual system in place to not allow a pack purchase by just buying moments prior to a pack drop. I'm fine with not getting a pack and just adding to my moments either way. Made sure to pickup players and moments I had been eyeing for a bit.

[Vinny1984]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

Yup I think we are on the same page. Requirements aren't necessarily a bad thing but they need to make sure they cover all types of collectors. No one should be punished for saving up and cashing in their moments for a higher value moment. They should have kept the condition that if you spent $99 in the marketplace you were good as long as you have at least 1 moment.

I would agree. I’d be fine with a simple marketplace $ spend requirement OR # of moments held. Doing both is pretty aggressive. Between packs and moments, I’ve probably spent ~$30k in the marketplace from my profits. Now that I stopped the bleeding and sold off, I’m now considered a flipper not deserving of packs. I know it’s impossible to please the whole community and I just happen to be one that got the shaft on this one but they are driving existing customers away while simultaneously closing the gates on new customers. I truly want Topshot to succeed but my hopes are diminishing by the day.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Wildcat55

I agree that TS has a number of things that need fixing, especially with new users getting access to a pack on sign up, and more engagement with maybe more frequent drops with less packs. Not sure what the right answer is but I’m sick and tired (like you) of constantly being #176,000 in line for 25,000 packs. Without these requirements, the barrier to sign up, put $14 in and be eligible for the $9 and $14 packs is quite low and the result are the queues we started to see with 300,000 in line...and that was only going to get worse.

It’s totally ok to admit that you joined this for the quick flip and not to collect Malcom Brogdon moments. I joined for the flip and freely admit it but also own 20+ moments of a few players I like and that I think have price appreciation ability or at the least have stable value in their commons.

“I'm signing up. Looks too easy.”....that was your first post on March 7th and I’m guessing you were not talking about how easy it was to buy Malcom Brogdon moments.

You just don’t get it. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with finding a hobby through the hobby itself. It’s what I do with cards, which has allowed me to build a bigger collection than I could have ever imagined when I came back four years ago. Does that make me a bad person and not a collector?

Every action Top Shot takes is to manipulate the market in order to prop up secondary market value. Can only sell one at a time. Can only sell during this window. Can only buy packs if you’ve done X, Y, and Z. Can’t withdrawal your funds until you wait three months for approval. Their efforts eventually won’t matter, and those $25 superstar moments out of 35k+ that were once worth $150 will soon be $3-5, as they should. How many “collectors” will there be left when the money you spend should be considered lost for good?

The better approach to grow the product is to dilute the packs and open up the offerings to everyone. Increase user engagement with the platform, and sell them on the fun of it without forcing them to spend money they don’t really want to spend. Top Shot is a bar that doesn’t have enough alcohol to serve a building that is under capacity. And instead of getting more alcohol, they are charging a cover to get in the door.

[Vinny1984]

Originally Posted by mossoholic

Lol ok gotcha. I just figured when you said you were in the top 2% at one point, Series 1 moments, Luka, Lebron, Lamelo moments during the boom that you were rolling in the cash. It's still nice to be well ahead at least.

If you deposited $5k and bought moments you would automatically be in the top 1%-2%. At least this was the case a month ago. Your moment ranks don’t mean a whole lot except for flexing on your bros.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

They don't want collectors, that's nonsense. They want money. You're a new user and want some packs for some delicious gains? Well, come on in, deposit like $100, and buy some moments!! Meanwhile, we make money off of every transaction. You got enough moments for a pack, good job!! Now, wait in a queue with a few hundred thousand people and hope your ticket gets pulled. It didn't? That sucks. Better luck next time. Oh, and uh, buy more moments because the threshold is going up for the next big pack. You need five more moments, get to spending (your own money now). Nice, you got 20 moments and have put in about $150 of your own money. Here's a cool cats pack. Oh, you got a Bogdan CC, well, that's like a cool $20 moment you could sell, OR, you can hold it because the next big pack drop is going to have a 25 moment threshold. Oh, you don't wanna play anymore and want to sell your collection, take your losses, and go home? Well, to be able to get withdrawal privilege, you're going to have to wait a bit. Why not, buy some more moments to pass the time. Now, here comes a super deluxe pack, only $499, and you have the required amount of moments!! Congrats...............oh, wait, you haven't spent $1,000 yet in the marketplace, sorry, you don't qualify.

Yeah, this is totally new user friendly. Gud jerb!!!

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You just don’t get it. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with finding a hobby through the hobby itself. It’s what I do with cards, which has allowed me to build a bigger collection than I could have ever imagined when I came back four years ago. Does that make me a bad person and not a collector?

Every action Top Shot takes is to manipulate the market in order to prop up secondary market value. Can only sell one at a time. Can only sell during this window. Can only buy packs if you’ve done X, Y, and Z. Can’t withdrawal your funds until you wait three months for approval. Their efforts eventually won’t matter, and those $25 superstar moments out of 35k+ that were once worth $150 will soon be $3-5, as they should. How many “collectors” will there be left when the money you spend should be considered lost for good?

The better approach to grow the product is to dilute the packs and open up the offerings to everyone. Increase user engagement with the platform, and sell them on the fun of it without forcing them to spend money they don’t really want to spend. Top Shot is a bar that doesn’t have enough alcohol to serve a building that is under capacity. And instead of getting more alcohol, they are charging a cover to get in the door.

Both of these posts convey my exact feeling about TS after following this thread since March. I'd like to get in but I'll wait until the nuclear war happens and pick up the remnants for cheap.

[Wildcat55]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You just don’t get it. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with finding a hobby through the hobby itself. It’s what I do with cards, which has allowed me to build a bigger collection than I could have ever imagined when I came back four years ago. Does that make me a bad person and not a collector?

Every action Top Shot takes is to manipulate the market in order to prop up secondary market value. Can only sell one at a time. Can only sell during this window. Can only buy packs if you’ve done X, Y, and Z. Can’t withdrawal your funds until you wait three months for approval. Their efforts eventually won’t matter, and those $25 superstar moments out of 35k+ that were once worth $150 will soon be $3-5, as they should. How many “collectors” will there be left when the money you spend should be considered lost for good?

The better approach to grow the product is to dilute the packs and open up the offerings to everyone. Increase user engagement with the platform, and sell them on the fun of it without forcing them to spend money they don’t really want to spend. Top Shot is a bar that doesn’t have enough alcohol to serve a building that is under capacity. And instead of getting more alcohol, they are charging a cover to get in the door.

I don’t disagree but platforms also evolve as does the overall hobby. I know you lost like half your purchase price on your Brogdon moments, have had issues buying packs like most, and have trouble withdrawing, so maybe this is not part of the hobby that’s for you. You joined Dibbs as well and nothing wrong with another hobby within a hobby if you are interested in fractional collecting. If you are in it just to make money, flip, and for the gambling aspect of it, then roll with it and when the easy money dries up you (and I) are going to be left with little option but to move on. I think many of us long time physical card collectors are at that crossroads now. I’m priced out, by choice, from most wax and hobby boxes. I buy mostly vintage singles now but even those are starting to look unappealing.

Not trying to argue with you at all but I was simply pointing out that while they are targeting collectors, you currently don’t meet their definition. I do today, but likely won’t soon if they keep raising the moment count limits or require something like a challenge to be completed. Cheers and hopefully we end up with a TS platform that gets better for all.

[beavers]

Started yesterday with 15, ended with 16, but had 12 when they checked. FML

[BosCardGuy]

Do we know how many people qualified for the last big drop?

Wondering what my chances are now that I'm qualified for this one.

[rysportguy]

Originally Posted by BosCardGuy

Do we know how many people qualified for the last big drop?

Wondering what my chances are now that I'm qualified for this one.

The blog had this nugget in there

"A total of 50,000 Rebound Packs from the Series 2 Base Set will be available, enough for every collector that qualifies for the queue"

So that indicates about 70k qualified and that we all get at least a base pack.

[rysportguy]

As a genuine collector that has put a lot of money into this and I have no intention to withdraw anytime soon it is refreshing to have a 30% chance at a premium pack.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by omega145

Is the "snapshot" of your moments actually verified as something that Top Shot does?

I had 12 moments and bought 3 last night in an attempt to get one of these premium packs. Sounds like I won't be able to get the premium pack but wondering if the idea of the "snapshot" is more to scare people away from doing this or an actual system in place to not allow a pack purchase by just buying moments prior to a pack drop. I'm fine with not getting a pack and just adding to my moments either way. Made sure to pickup players and moments I had been eyeing for a bit.

You had to have the moments before they made the announcement. They're not letting people react after the announcement to make the cutoff.. They want people being more proactive so that when the next one is announced, they'll feel like they're covered.

I was, this time.

[GeechQuest]

Putting requirements and eligibility stipulations on who can even attempt to purchase packs is a horrendous business decision when you’re trying to grow a company.

It seems like almost everything Dapper does is short sighted and leads to negative sentiment.

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Vinny1984

I would agree. I’d be fine with a simple marketplace $ spend requirement OR # of moments held. Doing both is pretty aggressive. Between packs and moments, I’ve probably spent ~$30k in the marketplace from my profits. Now that I stopped the bleeding and sold off, I’m now considered a flipper not deserving of packs. I know it’s impossible to please the whole community and I just happen to be one that got the shaft on this one but they are driving existing customers away while simultaneously closing the gates on new customers. I truly want Topshot to succeed but my hopes are diminishing by the day.

Not many people mean it when they say "LOL" but I legit laughed out loud when I read that post.

You've looked down your nose at people here who have been singing that same song for weeks/months. Calling everyone a negative nancy if they have gripes about the way TS is doing things.

Now TopShot bit YOU in the ass, it's your turn to be negative, since you're doing it for the right reasons?

[BosCardGuy]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You just don’t get it. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with finding a hobby through the hobby itself. It’s what I do with cards, which has allowed me to build a bigger collection than I could have ever imagined when I came back four years ago. Does that make me a bad person and not a collector?

Every action Top Shot takes is to manipulate the market in order to prop up secondary market value. Can only sell one at a time. Can only sell during this window. Can only buy packs if you’ve done X, Y, and Z. Can’t withdrawal your funds until you wait three months for approval. Their efforts eventually won’t matter, and those $25 superstar moments out of 35k+ that were once worth $150 will soon be $3-5, as they should. How many “collectors” will there be left when the money you spend should be considered lost for good?

The better approach to grow the product is to dilute the packs and open up the offerings to everyone. Increase user engagement with the platform, and sell them on the fun of it without forcing them to spend money they don’t really want to spend. Top Shot is a bar that doesn’t have enough alcohol to serve a building that is under capacity. And instead of getting more alcohol, they are charging a cover to get in the door.

That is incredibly well said.