PSA charging collectors based on DECLARED VALUE is a beotch move - Fight me.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

It is. This is what die hard PSA cheerleaders and grading enthusiast don’t see or choose to ignore. I mean if you can afford it, then by all means. I can afford it but I am frugal in that way.

I just sent 70 cards to CSG for grading. Let’s see what happens.

I have another thread here where a bunch of ppl are talking about CSG getting their feet wet in the grading game.


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that was a good idea, i could see them being #2 in a few years

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Does it matter? They are both going to give me a 10 depending on who I am and how much I've slipped in to the envelope.

Lol. Pretty much.


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[jduds]

PSA is a business and can charge what they want. The fact that they have about a year's backlog suggests they are/were undercharging as crazy as that seems.
That said, I don't like the uncertainty in their pricing structure for a couple of reasons. First, part of what you are paying for with the higher prices is faster turnaround. You don't get this if they bump you up after grading. Instead, the turnaround is based on what you submit at. Second, I always feel that by declaring a value you are setting an expectation level for the grader. This is probably all in my head, but it bothers me. I wish they just had a fee for each card based on the market such as all 93 SP Jeters are 100 or so, but that would be way too much of a hassle for them and discourage sending in lower grade copies.
I don't like their pricing structure and wish it was less complicated and cheaper, but I also know it is not changing in my favor until they get serious competition.

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

that was a good idea, i could see them being #2 in a few years

CGS has the corporate infrastructure and intellectual prowess to deliver a quality product. They are the leader in comic and coin grading. The reason I decide to give them a shot is simple.

Their turnaround times are not susceptible to large fluctuation in market pricing. SO if you send 50 cards in BULK they charge $8 (no subs) and allow a max value of $199. I sent a lot of 2021 Topps and Bowman young stars and rookies. I conjecture at least least half will come back GEM. I can flip these for $15-20 a pop and recoup my grading cost outlays.

I also sent in 15 vintage cards from the 70’s and 80’s to see how they fare with CSG. If those come back decent, I have an respectable set of CSG slabs I can put up for auctions to discerning buyers.

* i have no financial interests in CSG. I’m in healthcare.

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[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by jduds

PSA is a business and can charge what they want. The fact that they have about a year's backlog suggests they are/were undercharging as crazy as that seems.
That said, I don't like the uncertainty in their pricing structure for a couple of reasons. First, part of what you are paying for with the higher prices is faster turnaround. You don't get this if they bump you up after grading. Instead, the turnaround is based on what you submit at. Second, I always feel that by declaring a value you are setting an expectation level for the grader. This is probably all in my head, but it bothers me. I wish they just had a fee for each card based on the market such as all 93 SP Jeters are 100 or so, but that would be way too much of a hassle for them and discourage sending in lower grade copies.
I don't like their pricing structure and wish it was less complicated and cheaper, but I also know it is not changing in my favor until they get serious competition.

Good points


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[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by Seitas

What if you went to a car wash and they charged you $100 to wash your Mercedes, but the guy next to you was getting his Honda washed for $20. Same exact service, but different price based on how THEY value it. Would that be fair? It’s a racket. The primary reason I never have, and never will use PSA. It also incentivizes PSA to dole out higher grades. That’s why we see all of these OC subs getting 10 labels. More money for PSA. How people don’t see that is beyond me.

Legalized corruption which is above and beyond the alteration fiasco.

And yet the flock of sheep is willing to wait almost a year for their prized bounty. Enjoy the bubble while it lasts, and Never Get Cheated!

[jduds]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

CGS has the corporate infrastructure and intellectual prowess to deliver a quality product. They are the leader in comic and coin grading. The reason I decide to give them a shot is simple.

Their turnaround times are not susceptible to large fluctuation in market pricing. SO if you send 50 cards in BULK they charge $8 (no subs) and allow a max value of $199. I sent a lot of 2021 Topps and Bowman young stars and rookies. I conjecture at least least half will come back GEM. I can flip these for $15-20 a pop and recoup my grading cost outlays.

I also sent in 15 vintage cards from the 70’s and 80’s to see how they fare with CSG. If those come back decent, I have an ice set of CSG slabs I can put up for auctions to discerning buyers.

* i have no financial interests in CSG. I’m in healthcare.

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Very good idea. I've been sitting on some newer cards that I had decided to wait to see what the players do a bit more to bother to send off, but think I will definitely send a test batch off to CSG after reading this. I'm very familiar with CGC(the parent company) through comics and trust them. Their resources mean they should have staying power. My biggest issue is I am a bit OCD about my PC and only have PSA cards in it with a couple of exceptions (cards that were issued in BGS holders). I'll buy BGS, but always end up selling them and buying PSA versions.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by twoten01

How much does it cost PSA for insurance?

Your first mistake is assuming they are purchasing insurance for each card.

But regardless I would say about fitty cent.

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by jduds

Very good idea. I've been sitting on some newer cards that I had decided to wait to see what the players do a bit more to bother to send off, but think I will definitely send a test batch off to CSG after reading this. I'm very familiar with CGC(the parent company) through comics and trust them. Their resources mean they should have staying power. My biggest issue is I am a bit OCD about my PC and only have PSA cards in it with a couple of exceptions (cards that were issued in BGS holders). I'll buy BGS, but always end up selling them and buying PSA versions.

It might be better to get in sooner than later. A LeBron CSG 9.5 recently sold for close to $100,000

I think once more people begin employ this strategy, CSG will be swamped and this will derange their turnaround times. Who wants to wait for a PSA economy or bulk order for close to 10 months, especially for cards prices below $499?! That’s a lot of tied up money. I presume a lot of brick n mortar and dealers will do this but they rotate their capital.

The market is so hot that prices fluctuate like a wayward missile.


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[Skeely]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

been that way for 30 years

Right. And everything that was the same way for thirty years needs to stay that way right?

OP, dont use a garbage company like PSA or any of the current tpgs and you dont have to deal with your imaginary problem.

[Skeely]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Interesting comparison.

I was under the impression PSA charged more for higher value cards because they guarantee the card in the slab is authentic, and will buy back any cards proven to be fake after they are slabbed. If they charge you $20 each to grade a bunch of $10,000 cards and have to buy one back down the road for whatever reason that's a pretty big chunk they have to eat. But if they charge you $500 each to grade them they can pocket that extra money in the event there's a buyback situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Beckett not offer such a buyback guarantee? Or SGC? I truly don't know. But PSA does and that can be costly these days especially

Using the car comparison, if the guy at the car wash dents your Mercedes it might cost a whole hell of a lot more to fix than if he dents the Civic instead. Hence the extra charge.

This is the funniest statment in this entire thread.

[jw8]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

It is. This is what die hard PSA cheerleaders and grading enthusiast don’t see or choose to ignore. I mean if you can afford it, then by all means. I can afford it but I am frugal in that way.

I just sent 70 cards to CSG for grading. Let’s see what happens.

I have another thread here where a bunch of ppl are talking about CSG getting their feet wet in the grading game.


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Pennywise pound foolish.
Your missing out on the opportunity to double or triple your money by not going PSA. Even if you're not selling, do you really want your PC card in some third rate slab just because it's cheap?

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[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by jw8

Pennywise pound foolish.
Your missing out on the opportunity to double or triple your money by not going PSA. Even if you're not selling, do you really want your PC card in some third rate slab just because it's cheap?

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Good point. I would throw high end material at PSA. I have 3 Lebrons, 3 SPX ichiros, and 4 82TT Ripkens in nice condition of high I would not think of throwing at CSG. But then what do I know...that last CSG 9.5 Lebron only Sold For $98,000.

The hobby is the wild Wild West right now. You cannot put a finger on it. It’s actually quite scary.


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[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by jw8

Pennywise pound foolish.
Your missing out on the opportunity to double or triple your money by not going PSA. Even if you're not selling, do you really want your PC card in some third rate slab just because it's cheap?

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I subbed with CSG as a litmus test. Wanted to see how it goes. A


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[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Hope you get banned already.

KD, It would be a blessing in disguise for everyone banned

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You want the guy with 20 years experience grading your Mantle or the new guy who has only banged out a bulk sub of '88 Donruss so far?

Arthur

20 years experience? LOL

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Does it matter? They are both going to give me a 10 depending on who I am and how much I've slipped in to the envelope.

My educated guess, its more about giving the "printing PSA 10 money" out as kickbacks for VIP customers with understanding to use the sale proceeds
to fund more submissions... Makes PSA $, Makes submitter $, while ultimately siphoning the money out of collectors pockets for both parties...

[jw8]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Good point. I would throw high end material at PSA. I have 3 Lebrons, 3 SPX ichiros, and 4 82TT Ripkens in nice condition of high I would not think of throwing at CSG. But then what do I know...that last CSG 9.5 Lebron only Sold For $98,000.

The hobby is the wild Wild West right now. You cannot put a finger on it. It’s actually quite scary.


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CSG LeBron what, TC Refractor?
I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe that was a legitimate sale.
A week earlier a BGS 9.5 sold for 87k and 4 days later a psa 9 sold for $50k...who in their right mind would pay $10k more for a CSG 9.5 over bgs and almost double the price of a psa 9...I rest my case.

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[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by jw8

CSG LeBron what, TC Refractor?
I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe that was a legitimate sale.
A week earlier a BGS 9.5 sold for 87k and 4 days later a psa 9 sold for $50k...who in their right mind would pay $10k more for a CSG 9.5 over bgs and almost double the price of a psa 9...I rest my case.

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Someone looking to make CSG slabs more expensive.

Just like there are expert trimmers, there are expert price manipulators. The hobby has a long history of price manipulation. Do you think the premium for graded cards today occurred naturally with only honest market forces?

[Oriole Way]

Originally Posted by RW3FAN

I have seen PSA does in person grading at big shows?
So what do they charge you for a 52' Mantle in person vs. by mail if it's about insurance?

I don't think anyone replied to RW3FAN, but I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts about PSA grading at shows in general. What have people's experiences been?

[jw8]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Someone looking to make CSG slabs more expensive.

Just like there are expert trimmers, there are expert price manipulators. The hobby has a long history of price manipulation. Do you think the premium for graded cards today occurred naturally with only honest market forces?

Exactly my point, the sale is not legitimate.

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[KSIGN]

Buy the card, not the grade.

[gmoney328]

CSG has a really good opportunity to gain some market share here. A year is way too long to wait with this market. Watch. They'll be #2 within 2 years.

[D-Lite]

The insurance argument is ridiculous.

Card value $500-999 requires Regular service level = $100
Insurance on $999 from USPS = $15.50. Priority shipping ~$8

Card value up to $4999 require Super Express = $300
Insurance on $4999 from USPS = $73.50. Priority shipping ~$8

Please don't anyone make the argument on insurance or shipping costs. They are banking on the value added at these levels. It's their right but let's be honest.

My other thought is on the declared value and how it may impact the grader. I'm hoping the grader is kept blinded to the declared value otherwise it may bias them. Let's say I sub a card that's borderline 10 but only paid for a declared value of a PSA 9. Does that get me over the hump to a 10 so they can upcharge me? Or does it have the opposite effect that the grader says "Well the customer thought it was a 9 so whatevs". You could also argue that a declared value in line with a PSA 10 may influence them to give the 10.

[tribefan26]

Originally Posted by mcgoo2

They claim that insurance is covered in the return shipping they charge. And obviously you are responsible for insuring the package en route to PSA. I have a hard time believing that it costs that much to insure the cards while it's in their possession. The real reason they charge that much is because they can.

I’m shocked - glad the bots didn’t think of that.

[vwnut13]

The better the grade they give you, the more money they make.


Seems that PSA is incentivized to overgrade.

[Grizzkid12]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

CGS has the corporate infrastructure and intellectual prowess to deliver a quality product. They are the leader in comic and coin grading. The reason I decide to give them a shot is simple.

Their turnaround times are not susceptible to large fluctuation in market pricing. SO if you send 50 cards in BULK they charge $8 (no subs) and allow a max value of $199. I sent a lot of 2021 Topps and Bowman young stars and rookies. I conjecture at least least half will come back GEM. I can flip these for $15-20 a pop and recoup my grading cost outlays.

* i have no financial interests in CSG. I’m in healthcare.

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So you're putting together orders, looking at each of these individual cards for flaws, getting them in card savers, doing the whole wrapping, printing, sending out process, waiting a couple months for them to come back (while the market fluctuates at least somewhat one way or the other) hoping to make $7-$12 profit on the 50% of cards you think will gem? And that is all assuming they would sell for 0 raw, and not including your shipping back from CSG/ the extra cost it will incur to ship out graded cards vs raw to the people who purchase them.

Am I missing something here?