PSA charging collectors based on DECLARED VALUE is a beotch move - Fight me.

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

James Beckett sold to PE back in 2005, and then Beckett Media changed hands again in 2008 when the financial crisis crushed hobby demand and grading industry... these guys own them: https://www.globalgrowth.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does he still sit on the advisory board?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ucLAkers]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Lol. You have a better topic? Let’s discuss it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

It’s just a convo. People are getting hot. If it’s hot where it’s cooking, the living room is around the corner, they can go sit down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have never had a sit fight before..sounds great...unless you count me sitting next to my wife arguing.

Yes btw I have a better topic...its called using multiple quotes when replying to someone...like mine above.

Please discuss...erp...I mean fight me. From the couch of course...six feet though please and wear one of those masks that you’re selling. I dont wanna smell your breath.

I can handle the heat in the kitchen...let me go grab my wrap. I’ll teach you how to butcher a thread.

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by Chrominator

Correct. A simple fusion of basic economics and psychological warfare.

Absolutely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mcwildcats]

Originally Posted by Chrominator

Correct. A simple fusion of basic economics and psychological warfare.

Thank you. And it's not like declaring based on PSA 9 value is going to subconsciously steer them in that direction to grade since they get more fees if they assign you a higher grade.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

I understand your point sir. But DECLARED VALUE is subjective. When PSA asks me to set declared value, they are asking me to GRADE MY OWN card...objectively. Furthermore, they want it to fall under a certain price range so that it reflects fair market value. There is an inherent problem with this as eBay and 3rd parties aren’t the only place cards change hands. Millions change hand in private sales outside of these markets as people’s will to raise capital or need to sell. Those might be outliers but they have to fit into the equation. Let’s not even talk about shill bidding. That is a. taboo subject in these positively skewed threads.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bingo - I think you’ve hit the nail on the head bout why PSA doesn’t want to assert card value. They aren’t experts in that. And the right answer is very hard to assert.

If you were in their shoes, how would you do it?

I am sympathetic to their solution as I can imagine most PSA customers would prefer their own assessment of value over what someone else asserts. Especially when they think that 3rd party is setting value inappropriately, and as a result charging them too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Does he still sit on the advisory board?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like he’s “retired” and runs a podcast as a hobby.

https://www.radicards.com/interviews...james-beckett/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Simple. I think charging to grade the card (whatever the price tier may be) is fair.

Declared value should be a mute point as it can be SUBJECTIVE and not reflective of a healthy market.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

How would you like PSA to set the insured value of your card?

How do you feel about PSA charging more money for faster grading times / priorities?

If they removed the maximum declared value levels associated with those grading levels, but kept pricing the same, how would you feel about their prices?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jw8]

Originally Posted by val47

I was under the impression that you have to be accurate on the price of the cards as if they were going to be slabbed as a 10, regardless of condition

Hell no. I certainly don't assume every card I send in is a 10, that's wishful thinking but far from the truth. I use raw value.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[RW3FAN]

I have seen PSA does in person grading at big shows?
So what do they charge you for a 52' Mantle in person vs. by mail if it's about insurance?

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

What do you think would be a more fair way for them to set their prices, and participate appropriately in the value that they create for you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fixed algorithmic tiered grading fees based on true scarcity and pop reports with full transparency. Let the market dictate the way it wants to.

I’ll give you an example:

93 SP Gem 10 Jeter: $150K
93 SP Mint 9 Jeter: $22K
Raw copy submission Prescreen fee ($100)Grading approval (raw copy review disclosed to customer) Grading fee for 9 ($1999) | Grading fee for a 10 ($2999)Flat insured shipping ($100)

They would have to stratify grading fees and is probably something they never ever do because it makes zero business sense. So they would rather not be transparent. If I send a Jeter card at a declared value of 9 but it grades a 10, PSA say ok, it’s a 10, you owe us so pay us more. Fine...But if I send you a card which I feel is a 10 and declare it at 10, but you say it’s a 9, will they adjust the fee? This is where the business model is lopsided. Yea, it’s a roll of the dice but at the expense of what? Thousands of dollars.


Beckett did raw copy review and it was a mixed bag but it was a good way to get a fair idea of what you could expect. There was some semblance of transparency. With PSA, pricing is rampant because of backlogs and demand. 100% price hikes were not only to assuage backlogs but also to bolster bottom lines.

It is what it is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by jw8

Hell no. I certainly don't assume every card I send in is a 10, that's wishful thinking but far from the truth. I use raw value.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Do you use raw value on every sub?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Does he still sit on the advisory board?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you for the link. Very informative.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jw8]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Do you use raw value on every sub?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, every sub.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

Sounds like he’s “retired” and runs a podcast as a hobby.

https://www.radicards.com/interviews...james-beckett/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for this!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jw8]

Originally Posted by jw8

Yes, every sub.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

To expand on why: I will let PSA tell me if I made a mistake in judgment, they certainly do not upcharge me on every single card that exceeded their declared value thresholds.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Fixed algorithmic tiered grading fees based on true scarcity and pop reports with full transparency. Let the market dictate the way it wants to.

I’ll give you an example:

93 SP Gem 10 Jeter: $150K
93 SP Mint 9 Jeter: $22K
Raw copy submission Prescreen fee ($100)Grading approval (raw copy review disclosed to customer) Grading fee for 9 ($1999) | Grading fee for a 10 ($2999)Flat insured shipping ($100)

They would have to stratify grading fees and is probably something they never ever do because that is not good business sense. So they would rather not be transparent. If I send a Jeter card at a declared value of 9 but it grades a 10, PSA say ok, it’s a 10, you owe us so pay us more. Fine...But if I send you a card which I feel is a 10 and declare it at 10, but you say it’s a 9, will they adjust the fee? This is where the business model is lopsided. Yea, it’s a roll of the dice but at the expense of what? Thousands of dollars.


Beckett did raw copy review and it was a mixed bag but it was a good way to get a fair idea of what you could expect. There was some semblance of transparency. With PSA, pricing is rampant because of backlogs and demand. 100% price hikes were not only to assuage backlogs but also to bolster bottom lines.

It is what it is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well, I think they try to solve the problem with their current approach.

You sub at raw value $1000 (or whatever)... if it grades 9 or 10, and the rough market prices are $10k or $100k, they then up charge you to those value levels.

You should just never submit with an assumption higher than your raw replacement cost. Let PSA decide to up charge you if you do noticeably better than raw price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mcwildcats]

Originally Posted by jw8

To expand on why: I will let PSA tell me if I made a mistake in judgment, they certainly do not upcharge me on every single card that exceeded their declared value thresholds.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

This is good to know. Maybe I'll just go with raw value then. And let them bill me an upcharge where needed.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by jw8

To expand on why: I will let PSA tell me if I made a mistake in judgment, they certainly do not upcharge me on every single card that exceeded their declared value thresholds.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Yes, this!

The only downside I’ve seen are a couple situations:
— the ‘18 Soto Update Acetate that they graded 10 then melted in encasement. So the owner was paid a pittance of insurance
— if your sub is returned 1 year later, and the raw prices have moved, and their insurance can’t cover the price of picking up a replacement

Maybe the only option for PSA would be to offer the chance to up charge yourself and change the declared value at point of shipping back, if the market has moved? Or you want to pay more now that it’s a PSA10?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seitas]

What if you went to a car wash and they charged you $100 to wash your Mercedes, but the guy next to you was getting his Honda washed for $20. Same exact service, but different price based on how THEY value it. Would that be fair? It’s a racket. The primary reason I never have, and never will use PSA. It also incentivizes PSA to dole out higher grades. That’s why we see all of these OC subs getting 10 labels. More money for PSA. How people don’t see that is beyond me.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Seitas

What if you went to a car wash and they charged you $100 to wash your Mercedes, but the guy next to you was getting his Honda washed for $20. Same exact service, but different price based on how THEY value it. Would that be fair? It’s a racket. The primary reason I never have, and never will use PSA. It also incentivizes PSA to dole out higher grades. That’s why we see all of these OC subs getting 10 labels. More money for PSA. How people don’t see that is beyond me.

Interesting comparison.

I was under the impression PSA charged more for higher value cards because they guarantee the card in the slab is authentic, and will buy back any cards proven to be fake after they are slabbed. If they charge you $20 each to grade a bunch of $10,000 cards and have to buy one back down the road for whatever reason that's a pretty big chunk they have to eat. But if they charge you $500 each to grade them they can pocket that extra money in the event there's a buyback situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Beckett not offer such a buyback guarantee? Or SGC? I truly don't know. But PSA does and that can be costly these days especially

Using the car comparison, if the guy at the car wash dents your Mercedes it might cost a whole hell of a lot more to fix than if he dents the Civic instead. Hence the extra charge.

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

Well, I think they try to solve the problem with their current approach.

You sub at raw value $1000 (or whatever)... if it grades 9 or 10, and the rough market prices are $10k or $100k, they then up charge you to those value levels.

You should just never submit with an assumption higher than your raw replacement cost. Let PSA decide to up charge you if you do noticeably better than raw price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar to what someone else was saying on this thread. Makes sense. I guess I’d you look at it like that, it’s a fair deal. Sub your really nice raw Jeter at $1000 DV for $300 or $600 level and if you get an invoice from PSA for $1K, smile and be happy.. If you get one for $5K, jump for joy.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

Well, I think they try to solve the problem with their current approach.

You sub at raw value $1000 (or whatever)... if it grades 9 or 10, and the rough market prices are $10k or $100k, they then up charge you to those value levels.

You should just never submit with an assumption higher than your raw replacement cost. Let PSA decide to up charge you if you do noticeably better than raw price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar to what someone else was saying on this thread. Makes sense. I guess I’d you look at it like that, it’s a fair deal. Sub your really nice raw Jeter at $1000 DV for $300 or $600 level and if you get an invoice from PSA for $1K, smile and be happy.. If you get one for $5K, jump for joy.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Seitas

What if you went to a car wash and they charged you $100 to wash your Mercedes, but the guy next to you was getting his Honda washed for $20. Same exact service, but different price based on how THEY value it. Would that be fair? It’s a racket. The primary reason I never have, and never will use PSA. It also incentivizes PSA to dole out higher grades. That’s why we see all of these OC subs getting 10 labels. More money for PSA. How people don’t see that is beyond me.

What if the car wash limited liability to $500, which is about the max the Honda owner could imagine damage costing.

But the car wash has no way to charge more to raise the liability to $5k for the Mercedes. Which is the risk the Mercedes owner feels there is.

As a Mercedes owner you have two options:
— eat the cost of risk yourself that you will have to cover damages
— take your car to another provider that is willing to cover you for more damage

The car wash would prefer the owners of the Mercedes will stick with them, so they offer upgraded levels of washing cost that includes higher level of coverage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bronxbomma]

Originally Posted by pewe

Yes, this!

The only downside I’ve seen are a couple situations:
— the ‘18 Soto Update Acetate that they graded 10 then melted in encasement. So the owner was paid a pittance of insurance
— if your sub is returned 1 year later, and the raw prices have moved, and their insurance can’t cover the price of picking up a replacement

Maybe the only option for PSA would be to offer the chance to up charge yourself and change the declared value at point of shipping back, if the market has moved? Or you want to pay more now that it’s a PSA10?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a good idea as well. A final invoice review pre grading and pre shipment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ucLAkers]

Originally Posted by Bronxbomma

Similar to what someone else was saying on this thread. Makes sense. I guess I’d you look at it like that, it’s a fair deal. Sub your really nice raw Jeter at $1000 DV for $300 or $600 level and if you get an invoice from PSA for $1K, smile and be happy.. If you get one for $5K, jump for joy.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Honest Q:
What was your top $$ sub...non bulk but just single card at raw declared value?