“Wall Street is piling into sports cards as prices soar”

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

I respect the hustle--really. But you're in a historic rally right now. It's not hard to make money. The best stock market traders make money in every kind of market. That's hard to do in cards if you buy near the top and everything drops. Which will happen at some point. Then it will recover, but many will take a big financial hit if they are not careful.

Very good point.

Probably 70-80% of the people day-trading right now have never seen a true bear market like 2000-2002 and 2007-2009.

All they've ever experienced is a market that keep on going up...

As the saying goes, you don't find out who's naked until the tide goes out

[timfsu2k]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

That pic makes me sad. I live in a small town and got soooo much Prizm when it was released. I had a great time ripping all those packs but when I see what they go for now I have to dry my tears with my Carson Edwards silver Prizm rookie.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Have you ever read the book, The Millionaire Next Door?



Your current lifestyle and outlook greatly aligns with many of the factors (7) presented in it that are most commonly found among those who successfully build wealth. I'm not even surprised you drive a low 4-figure car, you've always struck me as a smart man whom I've had the fortune of learning from over the years.



Note: If you haven't read the aforementioned book or if others are interested in knowing about the 7 factors, they are listed below:



1. They live well below their means.

2. They allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently, in ways conducive to building wealth.

3. They believe that financial independence is more important than displaying high social status.

4. Their parents did not provide economic outpatient care.

5. Their adult children are economically self-sufficient.

6. They are proficient in targeting market opportunities.

7. They chose the right occupation.

This one is important, and it's one I see a lot of new collectors trying to get in the game making a mistake on.



Too many people try to be successful at this by being cheap. They fish for sellers who they think they can lowball, and pass up value. They focus on cheap and end up with cheap.



The majority of the best buys I've ever made were cards I bought at what was top of the market at the time:











I didn't get *deals* on any of these cards. In fact, I'm pretty sure I paid what was the highest price ever on these at the time. But I was chasing quality instead of cheap.

[DajuanWagner]

Originally Posted by alexlazarevich

Time to buy me some bass! With the millions I made in the Army. God Bless.

I should have gone in the Army since you made millions. I had to settle for the Marine Corps.......

[nomarkj]

Originally Posted by tjforce

This one is important, and it's one I see a lot of new collectors trying to get in the game making a mistake on.


Too many people try to be successful at this by being cheap. They fish for sellers who they think they can lowball, and pass up value. They focus on cheap and end up with cheap.


The majority of the best buys I've ever made were cards I bought at what was top of the market at the time.


I didn't get *deals* on any of these cards. In fact, I'm pretty sure I paid what was the highest price ever on these at the time. But I was chasing quality instead of cheap.

I find this point to be especially interesting in the card market and something I’ve noticed many times over the years (more so lately, though). I always chuckle inside when I’m at a card show and I see two dealers haggling over prices:

Dealer 1: has lot of 5 cards marked for $3500
Dealer 2: would you take $3000?

Dealer 1: meet me in the middle at $3250?
Dealer 2: would you take $3200?

Dealer 1: I’m firm on $3250
Dealer 2: how about $3225 and then I’ll have enough for dinner at chipotle tonight

I get GaryV has his rummage sale flipping videos and praises people on getting the best deal for themselves (coffee mug marked at $5, offers $4), and things of that nature, but the psychology of money is a funny and interesting thing. Buyers always want to feel like they “won” and sellers want to feel like they got the highest price possible, naturally. I also take the side of paying up for quality, but just felt the need to comment because I’ve seen both sides of the discussion and always found it to be interesting observing as a third party.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by nomarkj

I find this point to be especially interesting in the card market and something I’ve noticed many times over the years (more so lately, though). I always chuckle inside when I’m at a card show and I see two dealers haggling over prices:

Dealer 1: has lot of 5 cards marked for $3500
Dealer 2: would you take $3000?

Dealer 1: meet me in the middle at $3250?
Dealer 2: would you take $3200?

Dealer 1: I’m firm on $3250
Dealer 2: how about $3225 and then I’ll have enough for dinner at chipotle tonight

I get GaryV has his rummage sale flipping videos and praises people on getting the best deal for themselves (coffee mug marked at $5, offers $4), and things of that nature, but the psychology of money is a funny and interesting thing. Buyers always want to feel like they “won” and sellers want to feel like they got the highest price possible, naturally. I also take the side of paying up for quality, but just felt the need to comment because I’ve seen both sides of the discussion and always found it to be interesting observing as a third party.

This is basically Blowout in a nutshell. Anytime I list a card for sale I just get a bunch of messages asking if I'll take "x" amount or "what's the best you can do?" Almost never get anyone outright buying.

[IndianaCards]

Originally Posted by nomarkj

I find this point to be especially interesting in the card market and something I’ve noticed many times over the years (more so lately, though). I always chuckle inside when I’m at a card show and I see two dealers haggling over prices:



Dealer 1: has lot of 5 cards marked for $3500

Dealer 2: would you take $3000?



Dealer 1: meet me in the middle at $3250?

Dealer 2: would you take $3200?



Dealer 1: I’m firm on $3250

Dealer 2: how about $3225 and then I’ll have enough for dinner at chipotle tonight



I get GaryV has his rummage sale flipping videos and praises people on getting the best deal for themselves (coffee mug marked at $5, offers $4), and things of that nature, but the psychology of money is a funny and interesting thing. Buyers always want to feel like they “won” and sellers want to feel like they got the highest price possible, naturally. I also take the side of paying up for quality, but just felt the need to comment because I’ve seen both sides of the discussion and always found it to be interesting observing as a third party.

Lol that's the truth. It's such a fluid and fluctuating market, it's never really concrete, which I think leads to a ton of negotiating. Like, something at Walmart is what it is, you can't go up to the cashier and haggle on that sh*t. Cards? The value was different 10 minutes ago, and might be in 10 more. With that constant state of flux, you're gonna have some negotiations lol.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Chryghst]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

All this talk about ROI and maximizing any and all profits at all costs is exhausting. You know its okay to spend money and enjoy your life?? Nothing wrong with buy things that make you happy... like a nice car.

Not everything you in your life has to return some sort of profit. What the end goal? To amass wealth or happiness? Just enjoy the hobby. Make money and do whats fits you.

I’ve been following this thread and I genuinely believe this is the best piece of advice in it. The individual with the fancy car feels important because of his car. The individual with an old car feels important because of a large number in a checking or brokerage account. Amassing wealth and fortune is great and all, and I also believe there is moral or spiritual value in sacrifice (living below your means, curtailing indulgence), but your list of 7 speaks nothing of happiness, of doing things for others, or of luck. Every intelligent person who has amassed wealth will tell you those 7 things give you a chance at wealth, but luck plays a major role as well—health, opportunity, support and advancement from others etc. I have known many individuals who have lived according to your 7 pillars and been absolutely miserable as a result—everything is viewed as an investment, they are unwilling to expend anything (time or money) on their own happiness or others, and it potentially creates a very distanced and unhappy family dynamic (see 4-5). Orange jello is spot on; knowing these principles is good, but knowing when to abandon them (if momentarily) is equally as important.

Also, two points. 1. To elaborate on GeechQuest’s point, liquidity is one thing and scale is another. If you’re messing around with 10k or 100k even, cards could be interesting, but difficult to scale up on them once you get to higher figures as you can in the stock market. If you wanted to put 20 million into Trae Young, for example, would there even be enough cards of his to purchase this amount? This is why I find it extremely unlikely hedge funds are lining up to enter the space as everyone says they are. The market (even valued optimistically at $7-8 billion, is just too small. Wealth management firms getting involved I can absolutely believe and endorse. 2. Cards are worth so much now in part because they were worth so little before. Imagine if every Fleer Jordan was immediately sent for grading and stored/preserved perfectly right out of the box? How much would they be worth today? It is the same reason why a sealed 2012 prizm hobby box is worth so much today—because the overwhelming majority of them were opened (because they were dirt cheap), the cards were not preserved so there aren’t many of them today. Jordan Fleer are the perfect market dynamic of scarcity (few remaining in good condition) and accessibility (there used to be a ton so everyone is familiar with them). We won’t see this again. The fact that cards are worth so much today (so there is an incentive to take care of them, and a disincentive to open the product to begin with) could potentially cut into their future value and growth.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by tjforce

This one is important, and it's one I see a lot of new collectors trying to get in the game making a mistake on.



Too many people try to be successful at this by being cheap. They fish for sellers who they think they can lowball, and pass up value. They focus on cheap and end up with cheap.



The majority of the best buys I've ever made were cards I bought at what was top of the market at the time:











I didn't get *deals* on any of these cards. In fact, I'm pretty sure I paid what was the highest price ever on these at the time. But I was chasing quality instead of cheap.

I used to do similar with Exquisite stuff. Constantly "overpaying" at the time just to get the card. A lot of people won't sell unless you give them a reason.

You have to factor in when the card may come up again next or if it's an easy long term hold.

You've picked beautifully there. Well played.

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I got to live the life when I was 25. Had a sweet BMW (3 series, but hell, I was 25) with Black/Chrome rims, everything.

I was young, single, and I regret absolutely nothing about it.

Now I'm middle aged (young at heart still), married, a dad, and my office is now virtual so I work from home. Seems like the only reason I really leave the house is to go to the grocery store. I'd love to hop into a 2019 Acura NSX to impress the soccer moms at Ralphs, but I realize there are much better uses for my money, be it spending on cards, other investments, helping family members, etc.

I still like to dream about it a bit, tho

This is what I was getting at with buying a fancy car. That $100k, $50k car is little different than that $20k/$30k car.

I mean, if you have the income and flexibility already where you can sell some cards and buy that $100k car, sure go ahead. But to me, it's a waste and I would rather put that money into something more substantial.

[ninjacookies]

You can buy a car that you can enjoy and still appreciate in value. The 1 series m comes to mind. Could have bought a ton of various 90's iconic import cars (ITR, g1 NSX, s13/14) or analog porsches the last few years and came out ahead handsomely.

The market has become just like kards except with a gas guzzler tax.

[RogerGodahell]

I've already done the car thing i think you outgrow it eventually. Or at least i did. I've had a BMW, GT500, Raptor, Lexus, Benz. Now i have a 2012 Camry and it suits my needs just fine. The Raptor was definitely my favorite though.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

You can buy a car that you can enjoy and still appreciate in value. The 1 series m comes to mind. Could have bought a ton of various 90's iconic import cars (ITR, g1 NSX, s13/14) or analog porsches the last few years and came out ahead handsomely.

The market has become just like kards except with a gas guzzler tax.

Yeah they can definitely appreciate. My Raptor and GT500 i kept them both and drove them for about 2 years and sold them for what i paid for them. All depends on what you buy.

[dbpsooner]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

I’ve been following this thread and I genuinely believe this is the best piece of advice in it. The individual with the fancy car feels important because of his car. The individual with an old car feels important because of a large number in a checking or brokerage account. Amassing wealth and fortune is great and all, and I also believe there is moral or spiritual value in sacrifice (living below your means, curtailing indulgence), but your list of 7 speaks nothing of happiness, of doing things for others, or of luck. Every intelligent person who has amassed wealth will tell you those 7 things give you a chance at wealth, but luck plays a major role as well—health, opportunity, support and advancement from others etc. I have known many individuals who have lived according to your 7 pillars and been absolutely miserable as a result—everything is viewed as an investment, they are unwilling to expend anything (time or money) on their own happiness or others, and it potentially creates a very distanced and unhappy family dynamic (see 4-5). Orange jello is spot on; knowing these principles is good, but knowing when to abandon them (if momentarily) is equally as important.

Also, two points. 1. To elaborate on GeechQuest’s point, liquidity is one thing and scale is another. If you’re messing around with 10k or 100k even, cards could be interesting, but difficult to scale up on them once you get to higher figures as you can in the stock market. If you wanted to put 20 million into Trae Young, for example, would there even be enough cards of his to purchase this amount? This is why I find it extremely unlikely hedge funds are lining up to enter the space as everyone says they are. The market (even valued optimistically at $7-8 billion, is just too small. Wealth management firms getting involved I can absolutely believe and endorse. 2. Cards are worth so much now in part because they were worth so little before. Imagine if every Fleer Jordan was immediately sent for grading and stored/preserved perfectly right out of the box? How much would they be worth today? It is the same reason why a sealed 2012 prizm hobby box is worth so much today—because the overwhelming majority of them were opened (because they were dirt cheap), the cards were not preserved so there aren’t many of them today. Jordan Fleer are the perfect market dynamic of scarcity (few remaining in good condition) and accessibility (there used to be a ton so everyone is familiar with them). We won’t see this again. The fact that cards are worth so much today (so there is an incentive to take care of them, and a disincentive to open the product to begin with) could potentially cut into their future value and growth.

Plenty of stocks you can’t put $20 million in either. Using the Fleer Jordan example, at recent sales, the PSA 10 market alone is close to $200 million in that 1 card. There are plenty of ways to invest large amounts of money into the sports card market across the multiple sports.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

Yeah they can definitely appreciate. My Raptor and GT500 i kept them both and drove them for about 2 years and sold them for what i paid for them. All depends on what you buy.

Just like cards. If you know the vehicle landscape, you can easily play it to have fun and make money. GT500 was a great pick. GT350 is another one, although I can see why that'd be more of a speculative pick for the guy that has it all, since it's a straight up track car and would suck as a daily.

[grade]

A low mileage 1997 15th anniv. Turbo Supra. is most likely the best investment vehicle compared to many mentioned. Low maintenance, easy driving, parts available, insurable , liquid and the generation interested just hitting the expendable income age.

[ninjacookies]

MK4's have been increasing in value and long been regarded as a mid end grail for over a decade now. Not much sleeping on those. The problem is finding one that hasn't been superstreetonline'd, upgraded to 1,000bhp, or been driven to the ground by multiple generations of aspiring ricers.

Would rather have a g1 NSX all things considered. The real originator and genuinely blurred the lines between exotic and import touring.

[BosPats1980]

I learned my lesson 2 years ago and it cost me any chance of owning some monster cards now. I don't do that anymore. I just "overpaid" the highest price for a certain Juan Soto RC a month ago and now I could probably sell it for 3-4X what I paid, but most importantly is that I have the card and that makes me happy.

Those examples I "haggled" on that kill me now:

PSA 9 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan - Guy Asked $3500, I offered $3000. Never went back for it

BGS 9.5 1993 SP Derek Jeter - Guy Asked $3500, I offered $3000. Never went back for it

PSA 9 1996 Topps Chrome Kobe Bryant REFRACTOR - Guy on eBay Asked $4500, I offered $3500, He came down to $4100. I declined, because I KNEW I could get it for less than $4000 because that's what the last one went for. It never went back down again.

Those cards are now all out of my price range which actually makes me really sad because all 3 are cards I just truly wanted to have since I couldn't afford them as a kid. Lesson learned. Never again!! If you really want something for your PC, GET IT and have no regrets later (Again these were all for my PC and not being purchased for a quick flip) Maybe we'll meet again someday

Originally Posted by nomarkj

I find this point to be especially interesting in the card market and something I’ve noticed many times over the years (more so lately, though). I always chuckle inside when I’m at a card show and I see two dealers haggling over prices:

Dealer 1: has lot of 5 cards marked for $3500
Dealer 2: would you take $3000?

Dealer 1: meet me in the middle at $3250?
Dealer 2: would you take $3200?

Dealer 1: I’m firm on $3250
Dealer 2: how about $3225 and then I’ll have enough for dinner at chipotle tonight

I get GaryV has his rummage sale flipping videos and praises people on getting the best deal for themselves (coffee mug marked at $5, offers $4), and things of that nature, but the psychology of money is a funny and interesting thing. Buyers always want to feel like they “won” and sellers want to feel like they got the highest price possible, naturally. I also take the side of paying up for quality, but just felt the need to comment because I’ve seen both sides of the discussion and always found it to be interesting observing as a third party.

[grade]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

MK4's have been increasing in value and long been regarded as a mid end grail for over a decade now. Not much sleeping on those. The problem is finding one that hasn't been superstreetonline'd, upgraded to 1,000bhp, or been driven to the ground by multiple generations of aspiring ricers.

Would rather have a g1 NSX all things considered. The real originator and genuinely blurred the lines between exotic and import touring.

That is what makes the low mileage supra appreciate, like you said, they were abused a decade ago. With the NSX is they are many well maintained trailer queens and even dealerships that have ultra low miles showroom examples.

There is so much money rolling around nowadays, it really is a personal choice at this point. The exotics and german classics are nice ,but the maintenance is what kills any investment potential. I learned the hard way, i snapped a crank in a vintage Porsche . Not fun, tried to keep the car matching numbers but ended up just doing a total swap and keeping the block for the next collector.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by grade

That is what makes the low mileage supra appreciate, like you said, they were abused a decade ago. With the NSX is they are many well maintained trailer queens and even dealerships that have ultra low miles showroom examples.

There is so much money rolling around nowadays, it really is a personal choice at this point. The exotics and german classics are nice ,but the maintenance is what kills any investment potential. I learned the hard way, i snapped a crank in a vintage Porsche . Not fun, tried to keep the car matching numbers but ended up just doing a total swap and keeping the block for the next collector.

I feel you. I don't think there's any downside to paying up for a turbo mk4 atm, just different strokes for different folks.


I'm a huge fan of the 3000gt vr4's in that same segment as an underpriced future sleeper. Obviously not with the same heritage as a supra, but I think people will come to realize exactly how integral those were as a player in the 90's import muscle scene.

[grade]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I feel you. I don't think there's any downside to paying up for a turbo mk4 atm, just different strokes for different folks.


I'm a huge fan of the 3000gt vr4's in that same segment as an underpriced future sleeper. Obviously not with the same heritage as a supra, but I think people will come to realize exactly how integral those were as a player in the 90's import muscle scene.

That whole decade of JDM "muscle cars" will be the new "muscle cars" that takes over the american classic muscle car generation. Each JDM manufacture had a future classic. mazda FD twin turbo, Supra, Mits vr4, 300zx TT, All the Skylines, etc.

Too much good sense in this thread. See all you back in the war room (TopShot thread).

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by grade

That whole decade of JDM "muscle cars" will be the new "muscle cars" that takes over the american classic muscle car generation. Each JDM manufacture had a future classic. mazda FD twin turbo, Supra, Mits vr4, 300zx TT, All the Skylines, etc.

Too much good sense in this thread. See all you back in the war room (TopShot thread).

Don't even get me started on FD's....






But now we got TS...so all is gucci.

[gottagitdemjs]

My parents kept telling me when I was in college to stop spending all of my money on cards...8 years later, a $900 investment looks like it is going to pay off my house and make me debt free (if/when I decide to sell it).

[jzx1103]

Originally Posted by gottagitdemjs

My parents kept telling me when I was in college to stop spending all of my money on cards...8 years later, a $900 investment looks like it is going to pay off my house and make me debt free (if/when I decide to sell it).

$900??? That seems a bit cheap for this card even for back then.

[gottagitdemjs]

Originally Posted by jzx1103

$900??? That seems a bit cheap for this card even for back then.

It was $1000 and I used an ebay coupon to get another $100 off. I used to have the screenshot of the completed auction, but it was lost when my old computer hard drive crashed.