BGS to PSA Crossover with minimum grade: Are they just stealing your $?

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 03:17 PM

I know this his been addressed before, but I was hoping to get some real numbers on people’s success in crossing BGS slabs to a PSA slabs with a minimum grade.

If you don’t feel comfortable posting it, just DM me, I want to start a list to find out if PSA is just simply pocketing your money without actually reviewing the slab.

I watched this play out in real time today and I’m convinced that PSA didn’t even review my slab but simply took my $ and here’s why:

Purchased a 1985 Nike Promo Michael Jordan BGS 9 within the past two weeks with the following sub-grades:

Centering: 9.5
Edges: 9.0
Corners: 9.0
Surface: 9.0

The card was sent to and graded by BGS in 2012. Which, as far as I can tell, would’ve been the best grading company at the time according to “most” people in the hobby. Obviously perception has changed and the prices have reflected that, so I figured I’d send it to PSA for a cross-over with a minimum grade of 9. You’d imagine a straight 9 with a 9.5 would be an easy cross.

Now, I’ve seen people who will crack their case, but I spent a decent amount of $ and I’m not willing to take the chance of messing up the card because I’m no expert case cracker.

Here’s the card:

Now you may say, well it looks like there may be a surface issue by his leg. But the picture I took when I got it at home makes it clear that “defect” is not on the card:

So, I get the whole: they may not be able to tell if the defect is on the card or the case, but I call BS. For the most part, it’s pretty easy to figure that out and I don’t have the technology they do.

Send it on an over-night to psa Wednesday and they received it Thursday. Did the walk-through due to the prices of the psa 9’s right now and they started the process today. Check the time stamps in the top right of my computer screen and tell me they’re not lying:

Grading didn’t take as long as it seems, but those are the three pictures I had. The longest step of the process was the research and ID. From there it got ridiculous. QA Check is supposed to be a second grader ensuring grader one got it right. Mine went from assembly to QA Check two in less than three minutes. And they’ll charge me $500 plus shipping.

This is a scam right? They don’t even look at the card do they?

I’d love to get some numbers from people who have done this. Interested in probing or disproving my claim that they’re just stealing our money. For how busy they are, it doesn’t surprise me. But why not just be honest and get rid of the slab swap option?

Would love to hear other experiences and to know that I’m an idiot for thinking this.

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verona · 02-05-2021, 03:21 PM

With my experience, I will say yes!

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk

KhalDrogo · 02-05-2021, 03:24 PM

How is it a scam? You chose to not crack it out. You’re asking PSA to grade a card through a thick piece of plastic and sleeve. It is difficult to accurately assess the card that way, hence why so many are rejected for min grade.

Same goes for PSA to BGS. You simply need the card raw to best assess. If the company can’t fully assess it, it’s not getting crossed.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

How is it a scam? You chose to not crack it out. You’re asking PSA to grade a card through a thick piece of plastic and sleeve. It is difficult to accurately assess the card that way, hence why so many are rejected for min grade.

Same goes for PSA to BGS. You simply need the card raw to best assess. If the company can’t fully assess it, it’s not getting crossed.

That's the entire point. If they want to claim they cant assess the card through the case then why allow the service? I can see through the case and the clear plastic and tell what is/what is not on the card. So, despite not agreeing with that logic, if we were to agree with it: why would they allow the service if that is their argument. Just be honest with people and say for crossovers we dont allow minimum grade. Simple.

KhalDrogo · 02-05-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartanwilliam

That's the entire point. If they want to claim they cant assess the card through the case then why allow the service? I can see through the case and the clear plastic and tell what is/what is not on the card. So, despite not agreeing with that logic, if we were to agree with it: why would they allow the service if that is their argument. Just be honest with people and say for crossovers we dont allow minimum grade. Simple.

Why would they do that? They are a business. Their goal is to make money by proving a service. This particular service is enjoyed by people who don’t want to risk cracking cards out of their case. Some people enjoy good success with it. Some people don’t. Not much else to it.

dfwsoccer01 · 02-05-2021, 03:31 PM

Just like you, I have a 86 fleer MJ that I should do this for, and I just can’t bring myself to do it. Regardless of the higher yield I would get in selling. Paying a couple grand for simply to rebrand my card from BGS to PSA (same grade) is joke. PSA is printing money with their labels at this point.

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netmasters · 02-05-2021, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

How is it a scam? You chose to not crack it out. You’re asking PSA to grade a card through a thick piece of plastic and sleeve. It is difficult to accurately assess the card that way, hence why so many are rejected for min grade.

Same goes for PSA to BGS. You simply need the card raw to best assess. If the company can’t fully assess it, it’s not getting crossed.

I think you just proved his point. Thanks Khal.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Why would they do that? They are a business. Their goal is to make money by proving a service. This particular service is enjoyed by people who don’t want to risk cracking cards out of their case. Some people enjoy good success with it. Some people don’t. Not much else to it.

Is it though? Who enjoys this process? That is what I am trying to figure out. Who enjoys good success with this? Again, that is what I am looking for. The simple answer is great and all but I'd like to either prove or disprove myself. They could be in big trouble if the numbers show what I think they would show.

Essentially taking peoples $ without actually providing the service requested. How do I know someone even looked at the card? It took them over a day to log my item in as received but this little tracker finished up in two hours? I don't buy it.

And I would absolutely guarantee that a second "grader" didn't look at my card in less than 2 minutes. Their own tracker showed this for me, I am sure I'm not the only one.

SupermanBrandon · 02-05-2021, 03:35 PM

Hard to be a scam when the rules and history are laid out right in front of you. And then you chose to send them your slabbed card with your money. It's on you. I send BGS TG/+s to PSA monthly. I never crack a BGS 9.5 before sending. I understand the game. I happen to win a few more than I lose. That works for me. I choose to do it.

SupermanBrandon · 02-05-2021, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartanwilliam

Is it though? Who enjoys this process? That is what I am trying to figure out. Who enjoys good success with this? Again, that is what I am looking for. The simple answer is great and all but I'd like to either prove or disprove myself. They could be in big trouble if the numbers show what I think they would show.

Essentially taking peoples $ without actually providing the service requested. How do I know someone even looked at the card? It took them over a day to log my item in as received but this little tracker finished up in two hours? I don't buy it.

And I would absolutely guarantee that a second "grader" didn't look at my card in less than 2 minutes. Their own tracker showed this for me, I am sure I'm not the only one.

I have an approx. 60-65% crossover success. But Im only sending TG/TG+s. And always still slabbed. I find opportunities that I consider a free roll at the casino.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

I have an approx. 60-65% crossover success. But Im only sending TG/TG+s. And always still slabbed. I find opportunities that I consider a free roll at the casino.

I get it, but the timeline presented to me makes no sense. I have 0 confidence that they actually reviewed the card, let alone twice. Have any of those crossovers occurred recently? I could see them putting in the time needed when they weren't so backed up, but everything considered I am not buying any of this. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and trusted that they would look at it.

Feel free to check the recent PSA 9s of that card. Ive found a few that look better, but quite a few that look a lot worse due to corner issues that are more than clear through the case and plastic.

SupermanBrandon · 02-05-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartanwilliam

I get it, but the timeline presented to me makes no sense. I have 0 confidence that they actually reviewed the card, let alone twice. Have any of those crossovers occurred recently? I could see them putting in the time needed when they weren't so backed up, but everything considered I am not buying any of this. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and trusted that they would look at it.

Feel free to check the recent PSA 9s of that card. Ive found a few that look better, but quite a few that look a lot worse due to corner issues that are more than clear through the case and plastic.

Has anyone ever confirmed that their system updates every minute or in an instance? Could have been an issue with their system, then everything started updating at once? Not sure this instance should cause us all to put our tin foil hats on. Im sure we can find examples on the internet of high graded cards that dont "look" as good as the lower graded ones we own.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Has anyone ever confirmed that their system updates every minute or in an instance? Could have been an issue with their system, then everything started updating at once? Not sure this instance should cause us all to put our tin foil hats on. Im sure we can find examples on the internet of high graded cards that dont "look" as good as the lower graded ones we own.

I completely agree with that. Grading is inherently arbitrary until better strategies/systems are implemented. And I would feel a lot better if my card didn't fly through the process the way it did.

The whole this card being a guaranteed 9 is certainly arbitrary. I can't prove that it is or that it is not a 9. I can only look at their body of work, the current PSA 9's available, and make a determination. And if I can do that, you'd imagine they could.

But I would love to know if other people followed that tracker as closely as I did. I'm currently waiting on a call back from PSA to see their explanation on that, but when I called a few hours ago I think I was 192nd in line.

Yet, somehow, my card flew through the process lol. All outside factors just point to this being something they aren't doing right now. Why spend the time cracking cases and re-grading when so backed up? Which, again, I understand if that's the case. But just let people know and cancel that service until you're caught up.

I'm a criminal defense attorney, so I am inherently suspicious of things, but I do try to stick to the facts and even with those I'm not buying it right now.

Hopefully the phone call will explain to me that I am somehow wrong. I want to be wrong. I like PSA. But that two minute second grader just really got to me.

KhalDrogo · 02-05-2021, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netmasters

I think you just proved his point. Thanks Khal.

Not at all. They look at the card. As soon as they identify a) an issue dropping the grade below the min grade, or b) inability to fully assess the card, the card doesn’t pass. That could take five seconds, and is the same for crossing over any card from any company to any company.

Everyone knows crossover attempts are a waste of money. Just crack the card out and let them actually be able to assess it.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Not at all. They look at the card. As soon as they identify a) an issue dropping the grade below the min grade, or b) inability to fully assess the card, the card doesn’t pass. That could take five seconds, and is the same for crossing over any card from any company to any company.

Everyone knows crossover attempts are a waste of money. Just crack the card out and let them actually be able to assess it.

Again, proving my point. If your answer to the issue is: crack it open. Why allow the service in the first place? If they can't assess it through the case why allow a crossover?

Boomer105 · 02-05-2021, 04:33 PM

Person sends in high value BGS card for crossover and PSA charges $500, doesn't give the minimum grade. Person sells their high value BGS card to someone else, the next person sends the same card to PSA for crossover, PSA collects $500 and again sends the card back in the BGS holder. If PSA allows the crossover then the cycle stops and they stop making money. Hope this helps.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer105

Person sends in high value BGS card for crossover and PSA charges $500, doesn't give the minimum grade. Person sells their high value BGS card to someone else, the next person sends the same card to PSA for crossover, PSA collects $500 and again sends the card back in the BGS holder. If PSA allows the crossover then the cycle stops and they stop making money. Hope this helps.

Exactly. And if I say f*** it and crack it out I may end up with a PSA 10. Makes 0 sense.

burke23 · 02-05-2021, 04:36 PM

I have this same card at psa for a crossover (sgc 10 hoping to cross to psa 10). I don’t think it will fly but worth the chance. I have had good luck historically trying to cross worthy cards (eg sgc 10 and true gem bgs when shooting for a psa 10), but some cards they will be tougher on if they can’t see it out of the case for sure. I may end up cracking mine and trying raw if it doesn’t cross tbh.

Dame · 02-05-2021, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartanwilliam

Again, proving my point. If your answer to the issue is: crack it open. Why allow the service in the first place? If they can't assess it through the case why allow a crossover?

Because its private owned who wants to maximize profit.

I’m sure we can all agree that grading companies have deceptive and unfair business practices but it really doesn’t matter. There’s not much regulation there.

asujbl · 02-05-2021, 04:38 PM

Wait...

People are complaining about PSA not crossing a card you are afraid to crack? Of course they are going to be tight on something that’s slabbed

Then someone would complain they messed up their card if they did crack it for them

What a world

gopowergoh · 02-05-2021, 04:39 PM

So did it end up being a psa 9?

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame

Because its private owned who wants to maximize profit.

I’m sure we can all agree that grading companies have deceptive and unfair business practices but it really doesn’t matter. There’s not much regulation there.

Really wouldn't be THAT hard to hit them with a class-action simply based on the results of their crossovers and the evidence any one can find on YouTube of the results when you crack the case. I was hoping to get some numbers and see If I was way off.

I'm not the type of person to say "Oh well." I'll take the time to put the numbers together and see what happens. I'm sure there are a ton of people who have wasted a ton of money trying to do this.

Spartanwilliam · 02-05-2021, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asujbl

Wait...

People are complaining about PSA not crossing a card you are afraid to crack? Of course they are going to be tight on something that’s slabbed

Then someone would complain they messed up their card if they did crack it for them

What a world

Again, this is my entire point. Why offer the service? I send it to an "expert" so they can do it because they offer that service. If they either (1) cant determine the grade through the case, or (2) are afraid they will mess up the card, then I don't think they should be charging people for that service.

This isn't a hard argument. I know you may have been conditioned by the "reality" of the situation long ago, but that does not justify their failures. If what you say is true: they should not offer the service. And depending on the actual results of these crossovers, they may be committing a legitimate fraud.

asujbl · 02-05-2021, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartanwilliam

Again, this is my entire point. Why offer the service? I send it to an "expert" so they can do it because they offer that service. If they either (1) cant determine the grade through the case, or (2) are afraid they will mess up the card, then I don't think they should be charging people for that service.

This isn't a hard argument. I know you may have been conditioned by the "reality" of the situation long ago, but that does not justify their failures. If what you say is true: they should not offer the service. And depending on the actual results of these crossovers, they may be committing a legitimate fraud.

Because people are dumb? Why not offer it?

jr24ai3 · 02-05-2021, 04:48 PM

1. you are assuming BGS subgrades are accurate when you say it should cross.
2. How long do you expect the grading process to take? They aren't spending more than a minute or 2 on a card.

Your $500 is basically moving you to the front of the line and possibly covering any additional insurance for high dollar cards.

02-05-2021, 03:17 PM	#1
Spartanwilliam Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Posts: 173 spartanwilliam	BGS to PSA Crossover with minimum grade: Are they just stealing your $? I know this his been addressed before, but I was hoping to get some real numbers on people’s success in crossing BGS slabs to a PSA slabs with a minimum grade. If you don’t feel comfortable posting it, just DM me, I want to start a list to find out if PSA is just simply pocketing your money without actually reviewing the slab. I watched this play out in real time today and I’m convinced that PSA didn’t even review my slab but simply took my $ and here’s why: Purchased a 1985 Nike Promo Michael Jordan BGS 9 within the past two weeks with the following sub-grades: Centering: 9.5 Edges: 9.0 Corners: 9.0 Surface: 9.0 The card was sent to and graded by BGS in 2012. Which, as far as I can tell, would’ve been the best grading company at the time according to “most” people in the hobby. Obviously perception has changed and the prices have reflected that, so I figured I’d send it to PSA for a cross-over with a minimum grade of 9. You’d imagine a straight 9 with a 9.5 would be an easy cross. Now, I’ve seen people who will crack their case, but I spent a decent amount of $ and I’m not willing to take the chance of messing up the card because I’m no expert case cracker. Here’s the card: Now you may say, well it looks like there may be a surface issue by his leg. But the picture I took when I got it at home makes it clear that “defect” is not on the card: So, I get the whole: they may not be able to tell if the defect is on the card or the case, but I call BS. For the most part, it’s pretty easy to figure that out and I don’t have the technology they do. Send it on an over-night to psa Wednesday and they received it Thursday. Did the walk-through due to the prices of the psa 9’s right now and they started the process today. Check the time stamps in the top right of my computer screen and tell me they’re not lying: Grading didn’t take as long as it seems, but those are the three pictures I had. The longest step of the process was the research and ID. From there it got ridiculous. QA Check is supposed to be a second grader ensuring grader one got it right. Mine went from assembly to QA Check two in less than three minutes. And they’ll charge me $500 plus shipping. This is a scam right? They don’t even look at the card do they? I’d love to get some numbers from people who have done this. Interested in probing or disproving my claim that they’re just stealing our money. For how busy they are, it doesn’t surprise me. But why not just be honest and get rid of the slab swap option? Would love to hear other experiences and to know that I’m an idiot for thinking this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by Spartanwilliam; 02-05-2021 at 03:19 PM.

02-05-2021, 03:21 PM	#2
verona Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Italy Posts: 2,420	With my experience, I will say yes! Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk __________________ I'm looking for any 09-10 Exquisite!! let me know if you have some!! Thanks

02-05-2021, 03:31 PM	#6
dfwsoccer01 Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 313	BGS to PSA Crossover with minimum grade: Are they just stealing your $? Just like you, I have a 86 fleer MJ that I should do this for, and I just can’t bring myself to do it. Regardless of the higher yield I would get in selling. Paying a couple grand for simply to rebrand my card from BGS to PSA (same grade) is joke. PSA is printing money with their labels at this point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ :: Basketball \| Autos & Patches :: https://goo.gl/photos/D6Hsyj19cRHXD14N7 :: Basketball \| Refractors & Inserts :: https://goo.gl/photos/1UDJjgDaW1bLcrGC7 :: Baseball \| Football :: https://goo.gl/photos/XHJyEpJQXwaoWHKm6 :: All Sports \| Graded Cards :: https://goo.gl/photos/hkCKeQgWf1JrgywE6 Last edited by dfwsoccer01; 02-05-2021 at 05:46 PM.

02-05-2021, 04:36 PM	#18
burke23 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 5,249 burke23	I have this same card at psa for a crossover (sgc 10 hoping to cross to psa 10). I don’t think it will fly but worth the chance. I have had good luck historically trying to cross worthy cards (eg sgc 10 and true gem bgs when shooting for a psa 10), but some cards they will be tougher on if they can’t see it out of the case for sure. I may end up cracking mine and trying raw if it doesn’t cross tbh. __________________ * Looking for high end defensive Cracked Ice Auto and Topps Chrome Red Ref Non-Auto RC *Also LF 1997 PMG Red FB and star Non-Auto Topps Chrome Red Refractor rc

02-05-2021, 04:38 PM	#20
asujbl Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 63,119 ohiosundevils	Wait... People are complaining about PSA not crossing a card you are afraid to crack? Of course they are going to be tight on something that’s slabbed Then someone would complain they messed up their card if they did crack it for them What a world __________________ https://ohiosundevils.smugmug.com/ Browns/Cavs/Tribe/Buckeyes/Jackets/Devils TheFrenzy - “Blowout ain't a place for normies”

02-05-2021, 03:24 PM	#3
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,279	How is it a scam? You chose to not crack it out. You’re asking PSA to grade a card through a thick piece of plastic and sleeve. It is difficult to accurately assess the card that way, hence why so many are rejected for min grade. Same goes for PSA to BGS. You simply need the card raw to best assess. If the company can’t fully assess it, it’s not getting crossed.

02-05-2021, 03:35 PM	#9
SupermanBrandon Banned Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: TN Posts: 15,843	Hard to be a scam when the rules and history are laid out right in front of you. And then you chose to send them your slabbed card with your money. It's on you. I send BGS TG/+s to PSA monthly. I never crack a BGS 9.5 before sending. I understand the game. I happen to win a few more than I lose. That works for me. I choose to do it.

02-05-2021, 04:33 PM	#16
Boomer105 Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 591	Person sends in high value BGS card for crossover and PSA charges $500, doesn't give the minimum grade. Person sells their high value BGS card to someone else, the next person sends the same card to PSA for crossover, PSA collects $500 and again sends the card back in the BGS holder. If PSA allows the crossover then the cycle stops and they stop making money. Hope this helps.

02-05-2021, 04:39 PM	#21
gopowergoh Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,102	So did it end up being a psa 9?

02-05-2021, 04:48 PM	#25
jr24ai3 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,740	1. you are assuming BGS subgrades are accurate when you say it should cross. 2. How long do you expect the grading process to take? They aren't spending more than a minute or 2 on a card. Your $500 is basically moving you to the front of the line and possibly covering any additional insurance for high dollar cards.