Travis Kelce better than Rob Gronkowski?

[MeteoriteGuy]

No one kept saying how Munoz was a great blocker, which is not what he was known for.

Your not great at doing something if that something doesn't happen. It sure don't make sense to non stop give someone credit for something that didn't happen.

[foleylion08]

My apologies in not clarifying better, I made a poor point in saying RUN*. Gronk is a better blocker, top to bottom, than Kelce. If you don’t believe he’s a better run blocker, he’s undoubtedly a better pass blocker. He’s more willing than Kelce. You’d be hard pressed to find a single pundit who believes Gronk is outside of the top 10 all time in blocking ability in the modern pass-catching TE league.


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[MeteoriteGuy]

Gronk should be getting credit for stepping up his game in the playoffs. He is like the Mickey Mantle of football. Mantle missed a lot of games....but hit more homeruns in the WS then anyone.

But no he does not deserve endless credit for blocking for running backs...when NE could not run the ball.

[codered]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

How can you guys keep crediting Gronks running blocking. When was NE ever a good running team? When does having a terrible running game ever mean you have the best running blocking tight end? If you cant run the ball....which NE never could....you dont have a good running blocker.

Terrible run game? They were almost always a top 10 rushing team from 2010 to 2018. Granted it was at the bottom of the top 10 but still. You ever watch Gronkowski pancake a DB or block a LB ten yards downfield on a run? There was a reason he stayed in on jumbo and goal line packages as a run blocker. Pro football focus consistently had his run blocking grade the highest for all TE’s. His career grade as a run blocker is like 89/100. I think his highest grade for a season was a 92 or 93. I believe the only TE to ever score a higher season grade as a run blocker is Kittle at a 94/100

[MeteoriteGuy]

Who has the highest tight end blocking grade, according to Pro Football Focus, this year? Hint...it is one of the two tight ends we are talking about....and it is not Gronk.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

Who has the highest tight end blocking grade, according to Pro Football Focus, this year? Hint...it is one of the two tight ends we are talking about....and it is not Gronk.

you keep fighting a losing argument. The thread has spoken and it's not close.

GRONK

[MeteoriteGuy]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

you keep fighting a losing argument. The thread has spoken and it's not close.

GRONK

Your allowed to have your own opinion. Your not allowed to have your own facts.

I entered this thread countering this Kelce can't block that those not in Chiefs tv land keep repeating. Kelce is the top ranked blocking tight end this year.

[Zacy87]

You can't exactly try and tell me NE had talent in the backfield either. Who is the best running back Gronk has blocked for? Yet they still had an efficient run game. Not to mention the Pats used a lot of short passes to act as their run plays.

[foleylion08]

Tom Brady’s greatness is based on time to throw. When he has time to get to his second, third, fourth read he finds the open man. Having Gronk in their to block has been a boon to him.

It’s not that Kelce CAN’T block, just that Gronk is better over the course of a complete career. Great to see that Kelce is doing better this year, kudos.

Now that you’ve “won” your blocking argument, tell me why he doesn’t score touchdowns?


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[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

Your allowed to have your own opinion. Your not allowed to have your own facts.

I entered this thread countering this Kelce can't block that those not in Chiefs tv land keep repeating. Kelce is the top ranked blocking tight end this year.

So you are arguing that Kelce is the better blocker THIS year?

Sure. He is.


I thought the whole purpose of this thread was who is the better tight end.

GRONK.

[Earlsnake07]

Just found this thread........

Right now the answer is GRONK, but people saying its not close I don't necessarily agree with.

Gronk was absolutely a monster in his hay day...NOBODY wanted to tackle him (Derrick Henry ish), had the GOAT throwing to him and defenses knew he was getting the ball.

That being said Kelce could legit play 5 more seasons, Gronk already retired once and whenever Brady is gone - he will retire again. If TK can continue to put up #'s like he has the last few years, can throw in another SB or Championship games it only is going to make the argument that much stronger.

Kittle should not even be mentioned in this thread - if you need a 3rd active player to put in the list I would say Witten/Olsen and they are both hurt currently and obviously are not close to the level of Gronk or TK

[dbpsooner]

I do think Gronk was the best in his prime. Having said that, I think Kelce is better than any other player at the position in history of coming back to the ball. It is fun to watch him and Mahomes consistently be on the same page, often times throwing the ball before Kelce has even made his break.

[MeteoriteGuy]

I have not once said Kelce is the better of the two. I have said I would give it to Kelce because of missed time by Gronk. Typically in baseball, you take an injured players value and his replacements value and subtract the two. The injured player hurts the team the difference.

For some reason in this thread, Gronk does not lose any value over injuries, and Kelce gets subtracted for an untrue statement that everyone wants to repeat.

So yes, I find it funny that so many, all not in Chiefs tv land, kept using Kelce is a terrible blocker arguments to say Gronk is the better. Kelce is a great blocker. If your not watching the all the games, cause your not in chiefs tv land, and your ignoring how the experts are ranking them. What exactly are you using to declare Kelce a terrible blocker?

And no I am not saying Kelce is the better blocker of the two this year. What the experts are saying is, is that Kelce is the top ranked blocking tight end of all tight ends this year, which of course includes Gronk. What I have said, is Kelce is a great blocker.

Did the OP not start the thread with "As of now..."?

If you have to keep changing the debate to make your point...what does that say about your point?

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

I have not once said Kelce is the better of the two. I have said I would give it to Kelce because of missed time by Gronk. Typically in baseball, you take an injured players value and his replacements value and subtract the two. The injured player hurts the team the difference.

For some reason in this thread, Gronk does not lose any value over injuries, and Kelce gets subtracted for an untrue statement that everyone wants to repeat.

So yes, I find it funny that so many, all not in Chiefs tv land, kept using Kelce is a terrible blocker arguments to say Gronk is the better. Kelce is a great blocker. If your not watching the all the games, cause your not in chiefs tv land, and your ignoring how the experts are ranking them. What exactly are you using to declare Kelce a terrible blocker?

And no I am not saying Kelce is the better blocker of the two this year. What the experts are saying is, is that Kelce is the top ranked blocking tight end of all tight ends this year, which of course includes Gronk. What I have said, is Kelce is a great blocker.

Did the OP not start the thread with "As of now..."?

If you have to keep changing the debate to make your point...what does that say about your point?

my answers to the bolded:


Several posters in this thread are saying Gronk is clearly the better of the two even without blocking being thrown in.



didn't you just say Kelce was the better blocker this year 5 or so posts ago?



The only person I see changing the debate is you. Gronk is the better all around tight end.

[MeteoriteGuy]

Don't put words in my mouth. While, I will agree he is the better this year. What I said was...

"Who has the highest tight end blocking grade, according to Pro Football Focus, this year?"

BTW, you are the one that brought up Pro Football Focus as a source.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

Don't put words in my mouth. While, I will agree he is the better this year. What I said was...

"Who has the highest tight end blocking grade, according to Pro Football Focus, this year?"

BTW, you are the one that brought up Pro Football Focus as a source.

I am?? I think you are confusing me with someone else.


I see NO votes for Kelce over Gronk in this thread. Not one. Even the KC diehards are saying Gronk is better. There are a few "maybe if he does this in the next few years" arguments for Kelce, that's it.

[JeremyNick]

I think it's closer than people think.

Gronk gets a huge boost because of the rings.
Gronk was a complete TE and did everything well.

Kelce is putting up crazy stats and may do so for another 3-4 years.
Kelce doesn't get the respect for his blocking abilities.

To me the big knock on Gronk is he played as many full seasons as he did season with 8 or less games. He was just rarely healthy. Kelce has not had that issue.

[MeteoriteGuy]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

[/B]




I am?? I think you are confusing me with someone else.


I see NO votes for Kelce over Gronk in this thread. Not one. Even the KC diehards are saying Gronk is better. There are a few "maybe if he does this in the next few years" arguments for Kelce, that's it.

You are right, that was likely foleylion08. You two sound a lot alike in the thread.

Still, all my points remain. Kelce being a terrible blocker...is simply not true. He is one of the best blocking tight ends. This is not the first thread were blowout members have attacked his blocking. You repeat something long enough...and people start believing such. This is what we have seen here...what I am countering.

And yes, you do subtract for injuries. We do to all other players in all other sports. Gronk doesnt get a golden ticket.

[BostonNut]

Gronk is either 1 or 1A in terms of greatest run blocking tight end of all time. There is just no argument there.

Kelce is exceptional at it as well...but not even close to Gronk. The Patriots RODE Gronk and the o-line to a Super Bowl run and win in 2018 for crying out loud....

[foleylion08]

If I’m a GM drafting today, and you give me these two players with full knowledge of how their careers have played out to this point, I still take Gronk, even with the injuries. The lows have been lower, but the highs have been higher.


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[MyckKabongo]

Kelce is a better player right now and I see no reason to expect a slowdown from him any time soon. Great receiving TEs like Gonzo/Gates/Witten have aged well so I'd expect Kelce to follow. His game is based on awareness and route running much more than athleticism which again fits the profile of ballin into his mid-30s.

Now for the real hot saucy take: Kelce has a decent chance to meet or exceed Gronk's ring total. No one can touch Gronk's peak but when the dust settles I expect this to be a closer debate than many expect.

[Grid]

Gronk > Zeus

Who else was Brady throwing to? James White? Edleman? Amendola? Did other teams game plan to stop those scrubs? They knew the ball was going to Gronk, and they still couldnt stop him.

Tyrek Hill, Maclin, Watkins, Jamaal Charles, Demarcus Robinson, Kareem Hunt etc. Andy Reed is smart, you didnt know where the ball was going. Kelce is great! But Gronk was a one man show.

Also, as its been pointed out, twice as many TD's is nuts

[Soxrule111]

Half the TDs for Kelce, that shows how much of a Monster Gronk was

[WallyatJCCards]

In their Prime(s) no way to distinguish, they are both beasts

[MeteoriteGuy]

Solid point by several on Gronks touchdowns. Like I said he is kind of the Mickey Mantle of football. Mantle missing games but hitting homeruns when it counts.

And good job leaving the herd mentality blowout has had that Kelce is a bad blocker. If one of your strongest points is a false narrative, basically ad hominem, you are not presenting your side very well.