2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[marl1220]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Your theory on this is not fact.

See how that works? I can do that too, lol.

Maybe neither theory is fact. Idk. But if NC wants to talk about science saying male or female only, let's ask the scientists.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Theory is theory, and that is a fact. I don't know if I'm right, or if you are right. That tells me it's not a fact. The Earth revolves around the Sun. Fact. The Moon orbits the Earth. Fact. Humans need oxygen to live. Trump is an idiot. Fact. These are all scientific facts and nothing anyone says can change them. Until that is said about gender, I hold off on calling it fact.

[marl1220]

My original post simply points out how we can be easily effected by beliefs, and how those beliefs are cherry picked by society to be taught as fact. Do American students face ridicule or negative consequences for stating that they don't believe that Columbus discovered America? Not the last time I checked. Yet this is a widely accepted belief (taught in schools) that is not scientifically provable. So why should they be ridiculed, or face punishment, for stating they don't believe in more than 2 genders, or that they DO believe in more than 2 genders?

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Thats the problem is many dont want any line. They want it to be all about how you identify

It's complicated and confusing, there is no doubt.

And I think it's especially difficult in areas of athletics where there are distinct advantages in being a birth male who identifies as a woman.

Imagine the sheer domination if Caitlyn Jenner transitioned in elementary school. That internal conflict and then the drive to prove he was manly would have been gone, so we would have missed the greatness that was Bruce Jenner.

Everything said, how someone gender identifies is a defining character attribute, and it's rarely a choice.

For most of us, we never had to "identify" as something that wasn't expected. The vast majority of the globe is filled with people whose birth sex, gender and sexuality line up with "norms." (IE: A birth male, identities as male and is attracted to women.)

For others, this isn't the case.

The concepts and studies are ongoing, that's progress. We're truly in the early stages of understanding and that's ok.

The world won't change overnight, nor does it have to. It doesn't change the fact that transgender humans are indeed real, are not deviants, nor should they be brushed off as mentally ill.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by discostu

It's complicated and confusing, there is no doubt.



And I think it's especially difficult in areas of athletics where there are distinct advantages in being a birth male who identifies as a woman.



Imagine the sheer domination if Caitlyn Jenner transitioned in elementary school. That internal conflict and then the drive to prove he was manly would have been gone, so we would have missed the greatness that was Bruce Jenner.



Everything said, how someone gender identifies is a defining character attribute, and it's rarely a choice.



For most of us, we never had to "identify" as something that wasn't expected. The vast majority of the globe is filled with people whose birth sex, gender and sexuality line up with "norms." (IE: A birth male, identities as male and is attracted to women.)



For others, this isn't the case.



The concepts and studies are ongoing, that's progress. We're truly in the early stages of understanding and that's ok.



The world won't change overnight, nor does it have to. It doesn't change the fact that transgender humans are indeed real, are not deviants, nor should they be brushed off as mentally ill.

Well said.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Clark]

I see I missed the great back and forth about immigration yesterday. With the ongoing pandemic and with Biden coming to power, I foresee the migrant caravans increasing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-mig...er-11601583375

While the October 1 link speaks to caravans being an election issue, I would argue that with Biden's presidency, caravans will now be a continuous reality.

So what does America do? Open the borders and allow these economic migrants in without question?

[DegaBama]

I'm glad the CDC spent time to make sure Sturgis was a superspreader event. Still awaiting all the studies on all the protests and riots we saw. Oh wait, that's okay, my bad.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ota/index.html

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I'm glad the CDC spent time to make sure Sturgis was a superspreader event. Still awaiting all the studies on all the protests and riots we saw. Oh wait, that's okay, my bad.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ota/index.html

That's sooooo last administration. Hehe.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by discostu

Trusting and denying your understanding of science is your choice, and a political one for you.

The notion of an individual being transgender is a complicated one, and hard for most people to wrap their brain around. That's completely expected.

People often get caught up in thinking that it's some perverted sexuality disorder when in fact it's about gender. Nothing more.

For the bulk of humanity, their sexuality matches their birth sex. For the bulk of humanity, their gender matches their birth sex.

And that's great.

For some, it doesn't.

So is the issue upstairs (brain), or downstairs (body)?

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's not that simple sometimes. Of course, most of the time it is that simple, but not always.

Some people are born with a uterus and a penis. What then?

Some people are born with a penis but they have it removed/replaced. What are they then?

Moreover, who cares? Why does it matter to anyone else? Why is it even political? Why does the science even matter?

Deny the existence of a gender spectrum if you want. I'm not all that educated on the matter to accept or reject the premise. I'm just saying it doesn't matter to me.

If Johnny wants to be treated like Jenny, so be it. I will address Johnny as Jenny and use female pronouns, not because I agree that Jenny is a girl but because I don't care. I have a choice...to respect Jenny's wishes or to be disrespectful. That's all.

Cassius Clay changed his name to Muhammed Ali. I'm not going to address him as Mr Clay after that, simply out of respect, even if I think he is still Cassius Clay and is in denial of his own name.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

It sounds like you definitely do care. Clay to Ali isn't even close to comparable.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by discostu

Equality isn't trying to somehow dictate who you date and/or marry. We all have different likes and dislikes...no one is arguing the other.

"Don't be a dick," is "equality" at it's most primitive level.

Didn't you say a member had cheese for a brain yesterday?

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Okay. Sure, whatever.

But it is a problem for them, similar to depression or some other issues and it often requires treatment. Can we agree on that?

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Yes! It's a denial to accept one's self.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by jdandns

It doesn't have to be "pushed".
It is what it is and only new scientific discoveries can change what that is, and even then, only very slowly.

It most definitely is not "It is what it is."

This is really one of those heavily virtue signaled topics. People love to talk about how woke their trans views are, but would never actually go out with or marry a trans person.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by rman112

It most definitely is not "It is what it is."

This is really one of those heavily virtue signaled topics. People love to talk about how woke their trans views are, but would never actually go out with or marry a trans person.

Sort of off topic/sort of on it. I use 2 of the dating apps. Bumble and Hinge, i will say that most of the time the trans, will announce it which i dont totally understand why they are on there anyhow. I'm not saying its not a free country, but isn't there a dating site that caters to that where they will yield better results? My issue is for the ones that may not be transparent (pun not intended actually) I'll be honest, my friend married a Colombian girl, shes great, one day they were showing me some "girls" in Colombia and to be completely honest even though they told me right off the bat they were trans, i couldnt tell the difference based on the pictures, and i think if there are people out there deceiving in this way, its completely disgusting.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by rman112

So is the issue upstairs (brain), or downstairs (body)?

Well, this question actually came before the Supreme Court a few years back. The reason it did had to do with medical insurance and what it is required to cover.

Basically, if transgenderism or gender dysphoria or whatever they call it is a mental disorder, then insurance companies don't have to pay for things like breast implants, since they'd be cosmetic. But if the condition is a medical condition, then they'd have to pay for breast implants the same as they do for women that had a mastectomy, since in that case it is not considered cosmetic.

To make a long story short, SCOTUS ruled that it is in fact a medical condition rather than a mental condition. The reason they gave is simple: the only known treatment that has been successful is medical treatment, i.e transition. No mental treatments, psych pills, shock treatments or the like have ever been effective. Therefore, it is legally considered a medical condition.

I'm not sure if SCOTUS was right, but that's what they said.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Well, this question actually came before the Supreme Court a few years back. The reason it did had to do with medical insurance and what it is required to cover.

Basically, if transgenderism or gender dysphoria or whatever they call it is a mental disorder, then insurance companies don't have to pay for things like breast implants, since they'd be cosmetic. But if the condition is a medical condition, then they'd have to pay for breast implants the same as they do for women that had a mastectomy, since in that case it is not considered cosmetic.

To make a long story short, SCOTUS ruled that it is in fact a medical condition rather than a mental condition. The reason they gave is simple: the only known treatment that has been successful is medical treatment, i.e transition. No mental treatments, psych pills, shock treatments or the like have ever been effective. Therefore, it is legally considered a medical condition.

I'm not sure if SCOTUS was right, but that's what they said.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

You throw money into something and it has the ability to completely change the dynamics.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

Sort of off topic/sort of on it. I use 2 of the dating apps. Bumble and Hinge, i will say that most of the time the trans, will announce it which i dont totally understand why they are on there anyhow. I'm not saying its not a free country, but isn't there a dating site that caters to that where they will yield better results? My issue is for the ones that may not be transparent (pun not intended actually) I'll be honest, my friend married a Colombian girl, shes great, one day they were showing me some "girls" in Colombia and to be completely honest even though they told me right off the bat they were trans, i couldnt tell the difference based on the pictures, and i think if there are people out there deceiving in this way, its completely disgusting.

I'm pretty sure people being dishonest is like 75% of the people on the app.. Lol

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by rman112

It sounds like you definitely do care. Clay to Ali isn't even close to comparable.

John wants to be called Jenny. I'll call her Jenny.

Cassius wants to be called Muhammed. I'll call him Muhammed.

Seems pretty similar to me. I'm not hung up on why they want it. I don't care why.

You call them whatever you like. I prefer to be respectful but you can be a jerk to them if you want. It's a free country.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

John wants to be called Jenny. I'll call her Jenny.

Cassius wants to be called Muhammed. I'll call him Muhammed.

Seems pretty similar to me. I'm not hung up on why they want it. I don't care why.

You call them whatever you like. I prefer to be respectful but you can be a jerk to them if you want. It's a free country.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

It's a little more complex than calling someone the name they wish to be called.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by rman112

I'm pretty sure people being dishonest is like 75% of the people on the app.. Lol

ok ok, maybe I don't own 6 yachts nor was i nominated for a nobel peace prize.

haha nah im pretty transparent on there, truth is always found out sooner or later anyhow so im pretty upfront, but agree alot of lying both with words and camera angles, wow shes attractive, and then you see them in person and feel a bit deceived. But i would draw the line with "oh so you used to have a wiener? interesting, you didnt mention that on the app."

[rman112]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

ok ok, maybe I don't own 6 yachts nor was i nominated for a nobel peace prize.

haha nah im pretty transparent on there, truth is always found out sooner or later anyhow so im pretty upfront, but agree alot of lying both with words and camera angles, wow shes attractive, and then you see them in person and feel a bit deceived. But i would draw the line with "oh so you used to have a wiener? interesting, you didnt mention that on the app."

For sure.

And I'm sure trans people don't want to put that for fear of getting rejected outright. But it's completely unfair to the other person.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by rman112

It's a little more complex than calling someone the name they wish to be called.

Not to me. I'm sure it's complex for them, bit my choice is simple. I can be respectful of their wishes or I can be a jerk to them for no reason.

Let's say they're whackjobs, mentally ill or whatever. Do we treat schizophrenics nastily? Do we treat anorexic people in a nasty way? How about people suffering from chronic depression? Do we insult them, call them names, degrade them?

Those people are suffering and they need help. They need to be allowed to be themselves, to live in a way that isn't painful. They're not hurting anyone (with rare exceptions present in any group). They're just people that could use a little compassion.

You choose how you treat them. I'll choose how I do. I'll choose to call them by whatever name or pronoun they prefer.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[LVDan]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Not to me. I'm sure it's complex for them, bit my choice is simple. I can be respectful of their wishes or I can be a jerk to them for no reason.

Let's say they're whackjobs, mentally ill or whatever. Do we treat schizophrenics nastily? Do we treat anorexic people in a nasty way? How about people suffering from chronic depression? Do we insult them, call them names, degrade them?

Those people are suffering and they need help. They need to be allowed to be themselves, to live in a way that isn't painful. They're not hurting anyone (with rare exceptions present in any group). They're just people that could use a little compassion.

You choose how you treat them. I'll choose how I do. I'll choose to call them by whatever name or pronoun they prefer.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

You're only viewing one small portion of the entire conversation. You can be respectful to someone in person and still reject their views.

Who's talking about intentionally being a jerk to someone in their day to day lives solely because they're transgender?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by rman112

You're only viewing one small portion of the entire conversation. You can be respectful to someone in person and still reject their views.



Who's talking about intentionally being a jerk to someone in their day to day lives solely because they're transgender?

Well, you are.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Well, you are.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Uh. No. You assume.

Unless you want to tell me that the expression of not agreeing that someone is at their core who they say they are .. on the internet .. is harassment.