2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Social media promotes everyone. There are "nobodies" anymore. Everyone is a somebody.

The price we pay when everyone has a voice.

I mean I hope everyone has a voice, I just hope that 1) people do good rather than harm with it and 2) we fact check what we're being told/relaying

I'd never restrict speech like some people want to do, but we need to be constantly challenge our stances and thoughts.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Astros19

No surprise. Your last few posts have shown who you hold in high regard.
#ivorytowers

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Scott Baio?

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by discostu

Sorry that my bluntness is offputting, but this garbage infuriates me. Obviously.

Even cursory attempts at critical thinking would suffice, but social media has somehow given credibility to people that deserve none. And people share it. More. And more.

Excitement and bluster...that gets clicks, shares and everything else.

It's embarrassing.

This is my major concern about the current state of the world, not simply the US.

I get what you are saying and i usually dont get like that im a little up tight with the whole Thanksgiving thing and made an uncharacteristic mistake of getting caught in social media. With that happy Friday night. Game time with wife and kids

[Jopeal]

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by discostu

Sorry that my bluntness is offputting, but this garbage infuriates me. Obviously.



Even cursory attempts at critical thinking would suffice, but social media has somehow given credibility to people that deserve none. And people share it. More. And more.



Excitement and bluster...that gets clicks, shares and everything else.



It's embarrassing.



This is my major concern about the current state of the world, not simply the US.

Weird that it seems like you let strangers on social media sites spreading false information bother you a lot more than when the mainstream media does it.

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[Onepocketj]

This can't be true - masks don't work...
The governor of Kansas issued an executive order requiring wearing masks in public spaces, effective July 3, 2020, subject to county authority to opt out. After July 3, COVID-19 incidence decreased in 24 counties with mask mandates but continued to increase in 81 counties without mask mandates.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

[lionsfan20]

Just spent a little time in the 2016 political thread. Whoa baby that was fun! Funny thing is there is almost as much doom and gloom from the left in this thread lol. Win or lose apparently Trump is going to be the death of democracy and the USA! Some in that thread didn't even think we would make it to 2020.


If anyone here missed that thread I would strongly suggest checking it out. Makes for some great reading while on the can.

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[Onepocketj]

Trump Jr. tested positive for Covid

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Weird that it seems like you let strangers on social media sites spreading false information bother you a lot more than when the mainstream media does it.

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Can I send you a box of tissue and a roll of TP?

Local Hy-Vee running thin?

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by discostu

Can I send you a box of tissue and a roll of TP?



Local Hy-Vee running thin?

Dude, you know my underground bunker is completely stocked, but thanks for the offer.

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[Onions]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

"No" isn't what Trump was saying. His words were not true when he said "they're rapists". C'mon.

Mexicans are no more likely to be rapists than Americans.

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Some of the illegals crossing the border are though. Some of them are also bringing drugs across the border, some of them are violent criminals. And some are good people.

To suggest otherwise is silly.

You are the one that applied the negative part of his statement to ALL of them. You are part of the problem.

I work in the construction trade. I would take an immigrant to work with me over any of the current crop of American "kids" under 35 years old today. Bring me people who want to work, just bring them legally. Mexican immigrants are some of the hardest working people I have ever seen.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Ohhh goodness no. If you extrapolate a reasonable 1/400 infection fatality rate among Americans; 250,000 deaths means a total of 100,000,000 infections. That's about ~100,000 deaths short of when you could consider the idea (and probably closer to ~150,000).

Some small regions will experience it because of large outbreaks back then, but not the country as a whole.

Using these numbers, ND should be very close to it. We only have a handful of population centers, so it should be apparent very soon. Damn close to 50% of our population infected using those numbers. FWIW things have seemed to have slowed down in the last few days. The hyperventilating here is off the charts though. Even got Burgum to institute a mask mandate.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Onions

Using these numbers, ND should be very close to it. We only have a handful of population centers, so it should be apparent very soon. Damn close to 50% of our population infected using those numbers. FWIW things have seemed to have slowed down in the last few days. The hyperventilating here is off the charts though. Even got Burgum to institute a mask mandate.

North Dakota is pretty close. Not quite there yet but 818 deaths would suggest a true infection total just north of 300,000. Population of 765,000 ... I suspect the virus will fade soon.

Conversely, Utah has about the same # of fatalities and 4x the population so one would expect the virus to continue to surge there. It's all just a numbers game and the deeper in we get, the more chains broken. It will be a tough winter for many places that have not seen spikes.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by lionsfan20

Just spent a little time in the 2016 political thread. Whoa baby that was fun! Funny thing is there is almost as much doom and gloom from the left in this thread lol. Win or lose apparently Trump is going to be the death of democracy and the USA! Some in that thread didn't even think we would make it to 2020.


If anyone here missed that thread I would strongly suggest checking it out. Makes for some great reading while on the can.

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It's gotta be a long thread. Did both legs fall asleep?

[Onepocketj]

Great to see the guys come all the way from Michigan and basically tell Trump to f-off.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Onions

Some of the illegals crossing the border are though. Some of them are also bringing drugs across the border, some of them are violent criminals. And some are good people.



To suggest otherwise is silly.



You are the one that applied the negative part of his statement to ALL of them. You are part of the problem.



I work in the construction trade. I would take an immigrant to work with me over any of the current crop of American "kids" under 35 years old today. Bring me people who want to work, just bring them legally. Mexican immigrants are some of the hardest working people I have ever seen.

It was a direct quote. I didn't say it. I didn't apply anything to it. I merely read it. And it is not true.

Deny, deny, deny. Deny again if you need to. But your denial changes nothing except whatever was left of your credibility is lessened.

Seriously, this is the hill you want to defend? Lol.

It's over. Dude lost. It's okay to jump off of the sinking ship. Find some solid ground to stand on. You'll feel better when you do.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by discostu

No matter what side you're on, of the 44 men who have served as President, I believe that Trump will have the most complicated and polarizing legacy to date.

Part of it is the person, part of it is the times...but it's most definitely complicated.

Among American presidents, Trump is a nobody. His legacy will be minimal. He is not going down in history as a great president. His legacy will be like Martin Van Buren or Chester Arthur in that future generations won't know much about him. Schools will skip over him when teaching American history to the point that he's just a name on a list that nobody really knows anything about.


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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

"gender balanced pronoun neutral" I like it.



https://twitter.com/TheSecondRayAcc/...09486080876546

I don't understand your beef with genders. I mean, I see things similarly I think, but I just don't care what others do, what they call themselves, how they dress, who they marry, whatever. It's a free country. I haven't been able to wrap my mind around this dark corner of conservatism that seeks to villify people for dressing differently.

The things those people do are irrelevant to me, assuming they're not breaking laws. Sure, they're weird or different or whatever, but unless they're harmful I have no beef with it. I couldn't care less if JoAnne wants to cut her hair short and call himself Joe. I'd even have a beer with Joe (might be fascinating conversation) or hire him if he is qualified or whatever. I see zero problem with JoAnne or Joe. They're just people.

This area of conservatism baffles me.

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[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I don't understand your beef with genders. I mean, I see things similarly I think, but I just don't care what others do, what they call themselves, how they dress, who they marry, whatever. It's a free country. I haven't been able to wrap my mind around this dark corner of conservatism that seeks to villify people for dressing differently.

The things those people do are irrelevant to me, assuming they're not breaking laws. Sure, they're weird or different or whatever, but unless they're harmful I have no beef with it. I couldn't care less if JoAnne wants to cut her hair short and call himself Joe. I'd even have a beer with Joe (might be fascinating conversation) or hire him if he is qualified or whatever. I see zero problem with JoAnne or Joe. They're just people.

This area of conservatism baffles me.

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Couldn't care less what you want to call yourself but you're a man or a woman. Undisputed fact.

That I'm supposed to trust science for X, but deny science for Y suggests it's 100% political nonsense. Masks work, then two paragraphs later, this man had a baby ... no thank you.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Couldn't care less what you want to call yourself but you're a man or a woman. Undisputed fact.

That I'm supposed to trust science for X, but deny science for Y suggests it's 100% political nonsense. Masks work, then two paragraphs later, this man had a baby ... no thank you.

Fair enough, mostly. I looked into it and discovered that something like 1/2000 people are born with odd bodies in terms of man/woman, but that's not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is people who have/had a body that was/is fully male or fully female but they decided to live differently than their body.

I guess I feel a certain way about men being men and women being women but I just don't care if others feel differently. I don't care if people want to paint themselves glow-in-the-dark purple, strap themselves to a unicycle, surgically implant a dead fish on their chest and change their name to Muhammed Annie. Have at it, do your thing, I don't care.

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[danfan1]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I don't understand your beef with genders. I mean, I see things similarly I think, but I just don't care what others do, what they call themselves, how they dress, who they marry, whatever. It's a free country. I haven't been able to wrap my mind around this dark corner of conservatism that seeks to villify people for dressing differently.

The things those people do are irrelevant to me, assuming they're not breaking laws. Sure, they're weird or different or whatever, but unless they're harmful I have no beef with it. I couldn't care less if JoAnne wants to cut her hair short and call himself Joe. I'd even have a beer with Joe (might be fascinating conversation) or hire him if he is qualified or whatever. I see zero problem with JoAnne or Joe. They're just people.

This area of conservatism baffles me.

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Something we agree on. However once policies from Obama got involved that went out the window. Once they changed the bathrooms where men can use the same restroom as my wife and daughter I was out. Too many sick people disguised as him/her he/she. Its the same situation for the muslim ban, the Mexico border etc. Its not that we're worried about the entire group but the few with bad intentions. When theres no way to sort the good from the bad. To say that terrorist attacks on US soil haven't happened nearly as often since the travel ban is ignoring the truth. We can lockdown our own people for a virus but not our borders to prevent death.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Couldn't care less what you want to call yourself but you're a man or a woman. Undisputed fact.

That I'm supposed to trust science for X, but deny science for Y suggests it's 100% political nonsense. Masks work, then two paragraphs later, this man had a baby ... no thank you.

Trusting and denying your understanding of science is your choice, and a political one for you.

The notion of an individual being transgender is a complicated one, and hard for most people to wrap their brain around. That's completely expected.

People often get caught up in thinking that it's some perverted sexuality disorder when in fact it's about gender. Nothing more.

For the bulk of humanity, their sexuality matches their birth sex. For the bulk of humanity, their gender matches their birth sex.

And that's great.

For some, it doesn't.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Fair enough, mostly. I looked into it and discovered that something like 1/2000 people are born with odd bodies in terms of man/woman, but that's not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is people who have/had a body that was/is fully male or fully female but they decided to live differently than their body.

I guess I feel a certain way about men being men and women being women but I just don't care if others feel differently. I don't care if people want to paint themselves glow-in-the-dark purple, strap themselves to a unicycle, surgically implant a dead fish on their chest and change their name to Muhammed Annie. Have at it, do your thing, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by discostu

Trusting and denying your understanding of science is your choice, and a political one for you.

The notion of an individual being transgender is a complicated one, and hard for most people to wrap their brain around. That's completely expected.

People often get caught up in thinking that it's some perverted sexuality disorder when in fact it's about gender. Nothing more.

For the bulk of humanity, their sexuality matches their birth sex. For the bulk of humanity, their gender matches their birth sex.

And that's great.

For some, it doesn't.

Neither of you are hearing me. It isn't that some people feel they must do X; against their natural gender identity. Rachel, paint yourself purple. Stu, go ahead and update the birth certificate. To the individual, you do you; and I don't care. Have a blast.

The issue for me is that today, it is no longer man and woman, we are trying to change the science. "Gender spectrum" is not a thing and yet we hear it more and more by those in science and in the media. All of a sudden, the facts that are still facts are trying to be diluted for political purposes of one side. I really don't care for that.

When you are born a woman, you have a uterus. No matter what you do for the rest of your life, you will continue to be a woman, with a uterus. Call yourself a man, act like a man, dress like a man, marry a woman; whatever you want. But you'll never escape reality. You / are / a / woman.

If we cannot agree to that basic principle; how am I supposed to take any argument about science you(general) may present seriously?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by danfan1

Something we agree on. However once policies from Obama got involved that went out the window. Once they changed the bathrooms where men can use the same restroom as my wife and daughter I was out. Too many sick people disguised as him/her he/she. Its the same situation for the muslim ban, the Mexico border etc. Its not that we're worried about the entire group but the few with bad intentions. When theres no way to sort the good from the bad. To say that terrorist attacks on US soil haven't happened nearly as often since the travel ban is ignoring the truth. We can lockdown our own people for a virus but not our borders to prevent death.

I hear you. I personally don't want to conflate all those issues though, as I see them individually.

The bathroom thing is a problem, I get it. I don't worry about some transperson or whatever in the bathroom with me (haha nobody would want to rape an ugly person like me anyway) but I can certainly understand why other women care. However, I think there are solutions to that if we just think about the needs of everyone.

I really want to be tolerant and inclusive for those people as much as possible. I want to respect their right to be whoever they want to be. I think that's part of the American dream.

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[discostu]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Neither of you are hearing me. It isn't that some people feel they must do X; against their natural gender identity. Rachel, paint yourself purple. Stu, go ahead and update the birth certificate. To the individual, you do you; and I don't care. Have a blast.

The issue for me is that today, it is no longer man and woman, we are trying to change the science. "Gender spectrum" is not a thing and yet we hear it more and more by those in science and in the media. All of a sudden, the facts that are still facts are trying to be diluted for political purposes of one side. I really don't care for that.

When you are born a woman, you have a uterus. No matter what you do for the rest of your life, you will continue to be a woman, with a uterus. Call yourself a man, act like a man, dress like a man, marry a woman; whatever you want. But you'll never escape reality. You / are / a / woman.

If we cannot agree to that basic principle; how am I supposed to take any argument about science you(general) may present seriously?

Science evolves, I'm not asking you to evolve with it.

Evolution of theory is a basic premise of science.