Luka Doncic Questionable Autograph Analysis

[MaoAsadaStan]

Maybe Luka has multiple personalities and they all have different handwriting? That's the only explanation I'll take at this point.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Do we know who the handwriting expert is and what his/her credentials are?

It was someone on reddit named handwritingexpert or something like that. He/she bowed out of the thread, however, after identifying one of Lukas UD autos as one of his questionable ones.

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[theleica]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

He/she bowed out of the thread, however, after identifying one of Lukas UD autos as one of his questionable ones.

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I don't remember this part of it but hell it was a long time ago now. Is this accurate?

[sc29650]

I don't own any Luka autos so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I will say, try signing 1000 autos in a row, then compare your last 50 with your first 50. Fatigue plays a factor here. I think he signed them all, but if not, we will never know and no one will ever admit to the contrary.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by theleica

I don't remember this part of it but hell it was a long time ago now. Is this accurate?

This was the last post made by the expert in that thread.

The pictures on the right the expert refers to contained some of Lukas UD Exquisite Autos.

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[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

His unquestioned autos have at least 2 distinct styles so not sure what you think youre proving with that logic.

Below are 2 distinct unquestioned autos. Im sure a handwriting expert at 1st glance would think these were from 2 distinct hands.

The autograph on the right is a rushed version of the one on the left. That does not make them different styles, as the handwriting expert confirmed. If you recall, the handwriting expert was provided with both rushed and slow versions of Luka's authentic auto, including the authentic shirt and authentic optic cards shown below:





Using these different styles of known authentic exemplars, they were then provided examples of the questionable lulu autos from Panini. Here's what they said when they compared the questionable Panini autos to the authentic shirt and Optic auto:

I agree with you that the cards could be forged. The give-away is in the zonal proportions. In the known writing, the upper extenders are substantially tall in comparison with the height of the lower case letters. In the questioned documents (cards), the zones are more in balanced. That is, the upper loops are not as tall as the lower case. Zonal balance is a very unique characteristic of the writer that is extremely difficult to forge. The zonal proportions do not match. The cards may be forged.

Someone then offered them more questionable autographs, that they felt matched the authentic lulu from the shirt posted above. The handwriting expert nonetheless disagreed:

They ebay questioned signatures still look like they were not written by the same hand as the piece of clothing.

Then I provided them with this diagram. I took time to make sure every potential type of Luka auto was included, both questionable and unquestionable, rushed and unrushed:



At this point they were clearly getting fed up with these time consuming requests, but they nonetheless confirmed that

it still looks questionable to me. The samples on the left have baselines connections that are garland and droopy. The samples on the right have firmer, more angular baseline connections. It is possible many of the samples on the left appear to be done by a different hand, but again, I don't have time to go through each one.

As lucky pointed out, the handwriting expert's last opinion was that the authentic exemplars from UD and witnessed signings were not consistent with the questionable unwitnessed autos (at least not based on the diagram I provided). That being said, if I'm playing devil's advocate for your side of the argument, you can easily say that this is just one handwriting expert's opinion and does not establish the fact either way. Which is true. I do not take this as confirmation that the questionable Luka autos are fake; but it certainly adds another piece to the circumstantial puzzle.

[gameissued]

I don't even think an expert can tell you for certain one way or another about Luka. At this point it's just your own personal confidence with any given card. I'm more willing to pay a premium for certain witnessed sigs though.

Originally Posted by Asian62150

Do we know who the handwriting expert is and what his/her credentials are?

[theLUCKYshow]

Lol @rogermaris. Those two are the same style of auto? Are you kidding me? Thats the worst take Ive heard yet!

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[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Lol @rogermaris. Those two are the same style of auto? Are you kidding me? Thats the worst take Ive heard yet!

As the handwriting expert noted when they compared the rushed authentic optic lulu to the slow/neat authentic auto on the shirt:

The give-away is in the zonal proportions. In the known writing, the upper extenders are substantially tall in comparison with the height of the lower case letters. In the questioned documents (cards), the zones are more in balanced. That is, the upper loops are not as tall as the lower case.

People slow and rush their signatures all the time, as can be seen with the Optic autos and his t shirt (which we both agree are real) but the overall handwriting style (in the form of zonal proportions, etc) generally stays the same. That's how handwriting analysis works...

I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept to grasp?

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

As the handwriting expert noted when they compared the rushed authentic optic lulu to the slow/neat authentic auto on the shirt:

The give-away is in the zonal proportions. In the known writing, the upper extenders are substantially tall in comparison with the height of the lower case letters. In the questioned documents (cards), the zones are more in balanced. That is, the upper loops are not as tall as the lower case.

People slow and rush their signatures all the time, as can be seen with the Optic autos and his t shirt (which we both agree are real) but the overall handwriting style (in the form of zonal proportions, etc) generally stays the same. That's how handwriting analysis works...

I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept to grasp?

Yeah Im not buying that. Youre overthinking this. These are 2 totally different autos and proves Luka signs in different ways. Deal with it.



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[theLUCKYshow]

Here's the autos the expert was referring to:

And the quote rogermaris likes to ignore:


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[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by sc29650

I don't own any Luka autos so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I will say, try signing 1000 autos in a row, then compare your last 50 with your first 50. Fatigue plays a factor here. I think he signed them all, but if not, we will never know and no one will ever admit to the contrary.

I know people bring up the "try signing your auto 1000 times" thing and it makes some sense, but Zion's sig seems similar with every sticker and on-card auto from this past year.

And with the way Panini was/is still pumping out 19-20 product, Zion probably signed a lot more than Luka did.

[rogermaris]

EDIT: not worth it

[al3xmac10]

Here is a video (Mavericks @Warriors, 12/22/2018) of Luka signing his game-worn jersey for a 10-year old fan, just for additional reference:

https://clutchpoints.com/luka-doncic...o-during-game/

[al3xmac10]

Originally Posted by MaoAsadaStan

Maybe Luka has multiple personalities and they all have different handwriting? That's the only explanation I'll take at this point.

It all makes perfect sense now.

[gameissued]

I do agree with the L's and took that into account. I tried it with my own sig (it's pretty wild), and lulu too. Done very easily on a small piece of tape. Nothing to it.. just smaller.. the adjustment is minimal especially when using the staeder pens. Not discounting your reasoning though, just basing it off my own experiment.

But assuming he did sign the stickers, he did it in a very continuous rythm where he's just doing mechanical lulu circle motions, one after another. Staying in the same rythm to just to get it all done without thinking about it. Like a whole line of 5 lulu's in a row, and onto the next, for 50+ pages or so. If that makes any sense. Very possible, but sadly anyone can do it too, which is why it's difficult to confirm either way.

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Luka typically likes to use tall Ls in his signature but the stickers arent a natural fit for that style of auto. So yeah for Luka I think he had to be more deliberate signing stickers. I dont think that logic is silly at all.

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[TBlightning]

I appreciate rogermaris bringing this to light and documentation of the matter. Allowed me to look into it more myself and purchase a Luka auto I was comfortable with being legit. It appears there will be no closure on this topic, so it is what it is and everyone can form their own opinion.

[PSA2Pac]

Originally Posted by al3xmac10

Here is a video (Mavericks @Warriors, 12/22/2018) of Luka signing his game-worn jersey for a 10-year old fan, just for additional reference:

https://clutchpoints.com/luka-doncic...o-during-game/

Thats the video

Check the sig on this one

Looks pretty "lulu"-ish to me.. clearly video footage of Luka signing it lol

[IceTrae11]

Originally Posted by PSA2Pac

Thats the video

Check the sig on this one

Looks pretty "lulu"-ish to me.. clearly video footage of Luka signing it lol

This looks like Lulu to you?

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by IceTrae11

This looks like Lulu to you?

Its more of a hybrid but this auto on a game worn jersey from the Euroleague Final 4 inscribed to the Drazen Petrovic Museum looks like a classic "lulu" to me.

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[IceTrae11]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Its more of a hybrid but this auto on a game worn jersey from the Euroleague Final 4 inscribed to the Drazen Petrovic Museum looks like a classic "lulu" to me.

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No I understand, but the contention was never that he doesn't/never has signed a variation of Lulu. My screenshot is clearly not any variation of his Lulu, nor has he ever produced in person the perfectly round loopy Lulus that are characteristic of his sticker autos.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

This whole thread is funny. Most of you guys are troubled about is it or isn’t it Luka’s auto when not even 1/10th of you comment about the fake patch, altered card, fake slab and shilled bidding pandemic over running the hobby. Is see who is absent those threads I hope others are taking note as I am.

Most of you are frauds. Especially some of you “big spenders” You know who you are.

[theLUCKYshow]

Lets not forget that Luka has variance in his sticker autos also. Yes, some are loopy like this:


But many are narrow and angular like these:





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[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by Pat3ntP3nd1ng

This whole thread is funny. Most of you guys are troubled about is it or isn’t it Luka’s auto when not even 1/10th of you comment about the fake patch, altered card, fake slab and shilled bidding pandemic over running the hobby. Is see who is absent those threads I hope others are taking note as I am.

Most of you are frauds. Especially some of you “big spenders” You know who you are.

Woahh now! Rogermaris is a very respectable member of these boards.

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[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by Pat3ntP3nd1ng

This whole thread is funny. Most of you guys are troubled about is it or isn’t it Luka’s auto when not even 1/10th of you comment about the fake patch, altered card, fake slab and shilled bidding pandemic over running the hobby. Is see who is absent those threads I hope others are taking note as I am.

Most of you are frauds. Especially some of you “big spenders” You know who you are.

Not everyone has to comment on everything. It's even somewhat refreshing to not hear the same people in every thread on every topic. It's an open forum, after all.

And sometimes I personally don't post because others have said the same thing in a better way than I could.