2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

100% not the case. Plenty of people declare bankruptcy on unsecured debts.

So because they can't repo a degree then you can't discharge student loans? Well, maybe if the rules were changed, the banks would make wiser loans. Maybe you'd have to prove your career path out to a relationship manager. It's bonkers to me that the only people with any kind of skin in the game are the kids taking these loans out. The schools get paid, the banks get paid, the government gets paid.

When you were 16/17 and people hounded you about going to college, you probably weren't thinking about interest rates, career fields, what jobs pay, so on and so forth. If you did, you are the vast minority. Parents, schools, and Congress have all failed this generation. Yet, they make out like nothing happens while getting to tell those kids "Pick yourself up by the bootstraps!!" while they stand there in the boots looking down on the kids.

Makes. No. Sense.

True, but not on specific loans such as car loans and mortgages where the item is part of the collateral and is agreed upon forfeitable upon bankruptcy/nonpayment. A student loan should be no different.

When I was trying to get into college I was attempting to get a student loan and was turned down because of my age and nothing more so I wouldn't know. Perhaps we should do a better job of teaching children in high school about real adult life and the consequences of long term loans not to mention so much more to prepare kids for adulthood.

I do admit I am bias, due to life experiences, my thought process is more along the lines of accountability and not so much of being bailed out after making poor decisions. I stand by my statements. Don't go to schools you cannot afford, major is classes with a poor paying job or bad job placement. And if you do, knuckle up and pay the damn loan off.

I'm sure a good number of people who choose to still have student loan debt here could pay that off by selling their collections. With a decent job and making sacrifices most people should be able to knock out a $50,000 loan in 3-4 years by making sacrifices and cutting back.

[discostu]

A lot of talk about student loans, and yet I'm of the belief that the entire college industry is fast-tracking to obsolescence.

There are not a lot of jobs that simply do not need degrees, and it's little more than a silly, meaningless requirement. (And spare me the, 'it shows you accomplished something you set out to do nonsense.')

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by discostu

A lot of talk about student loans, and yet I'm of the belief that the entire college industry is fast-tracking to obsolescence.

There are not a lot of jobs that simply do not need degrees, and it's little more than a silly, meaningless requirement. (And spare me the, 'it shows you accomplished something you set out to do nonsense.')

I think this is a big thing to look at. Trade jobs should be making a comeback.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I think this is a big thing to look at. Trade jobs should be making a comeback.

As they should be. They are in high demand and pay well.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I think this is a big thing to look at. Trade jobs should be making a comeback.

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

As they should be. They are in high demand and pay well.

If I were coming out of high school today (or lingering in my early 20s), I'd focus everything on becoming a lineman.

No hesitation.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by discostu

If I were coming out of high school today (or lingering in my early 20s), I'd focus everything on becoming a lineman.

No hesitation.

I have a buddy that did just that a few years ago. He is crushing it.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I think this is a big thing to look at. Trade jobs should be making a comeback.

I manage a small trucking company, and I can't find drivers. When I advertised a few months ago looking for seasonal help offering low $30's per hour i got two applicants, and neither showed up for their interview.

The younger guys that come through usually have a poor work ethic too. High schools should definitely teach some life skills classes.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by discostu

A lot of talk about student loans, and yet I'm of the belief that the entire college industry is fast-tracking to obsolescence.

There are not a lot of jobs that simply do not need degrees, and it's little more than a silly, meaningless requirement. (And spare me the, 'it shows you accomplished something you set out to do nonsense.')

This, at least the way college is structured. COVID has shown how pointless it is to build a $50 million rec center. It's shown how many layers of administration that does nothing there are. College can be done online. Also, I think colleges should have some skin in the game. I forget which university does this, but you go for free and then you pay back 10% of your salary to them over ten years. It encourages the university to place their students and place them in high paying or high demand jobs.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

This, at least the way college is structured. COVID has shown how pointless it is to build a $50 million rec center. It's shown how many layers of administration that does nothing there are. College can be done online. Also, I think colleges should have some skin in the game. I forget which university does this, but you go for free and then you pay back 10% of your salary to them over ten years. It encourages the university to place their students and place them in high paying or high demand jobs.

Yea and no.

Colleges will not become obsolete. Colleges drive research and research drives innovation. College is extremely beneficial for jobs that require a degree and numberless jobs still do.

However the institution of college is way too bloated and has become inifinitely too self serving. Having to take a bunch of non-specific liberal studies classes just cuz needs to end. I took those classes in High School, college should be very specific.

Trades are not for everyone, most are Union driven and while small and self owned business are vital to our economy, they are risky. If I had college aged children right now, I’d encourage them to hold off on college until COViD isnt an issue. College is worthless online and paying thousands for it, is a very bad financial decision.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Astros19

The college debt problem didn't just start in the last year or two, its been a problem for a while now.
If young people, and their parents, are just figuring it out now, too bad so sad.

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I agree with this. When I think about student debt I view it through the lens of my circumstances. Neither parent went to college so they had no great insight. My father is a contractor who had a framing business for maybe 20 years and now does just about everything, but he always told me “don’t be a framer.” I wanted to take a year off after high school but mom wasn’t having that. I went to a very good public school where most people were going to college after they graduated, and not going was looked down upon the same way Shop class was looked down upon.

I remember crunching the numbers based on projected salary and thinking I’d have my loans paid off five years out of school. I didn’t understand interest. I didn’t realize that landing a decent job, let alone one with the salary projections in the field I thought I’d go into, was actually difficult. I thought a college degree was a golden ticket. This was also a time when access to information was limited relative to today. There was no student loan debt crisis. I went to college with the best of intentions and very little understanding of how personal finance worked. I worked at a pizza shop making $7/hr cash that I saved and spent on my car. When that student loan bill came due, the sticker shock was overwhelming. I struggled for a few years after graduating and had to pay interest only and even missed payments at times because I just didn’t have the $, and the last thing I was going to pay was the loan for a degree I already had. I also had my son while in college. I was trying to play life on Expert mode without even knowing the buttons.

I have no great counter to the “it’s your debt, deal with it.” 100% true. I’m just more sympathetic to situations where students aren’t aware of what they got themselves into. You’re right, though, in that there’s really no excuse to go into this blind at this point given the information out there. I still think that at a minimum, mandatory personal finance in public high school with a dedicated focus on college costs and repayment should be implemented. I’m fine with leaving those who put themselves in a bad spot to figure it out, but think we need to make sure students know the deal so that if it does happen, they were more informed about the arrangement they agreed to.

Or F em. I paid my ish (mostly) so this is a whole lotta notmyproblem. I see both sides, though.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

Time for some personal facts!

I had COVID. It was bound to happen. Got exposed to someone at work, then church. Very flu like symptoms. Everything from the neck up hurt. 102.5 fever for 24 hours. I have since recovered fully and don't have it. It was what I thought it would be. My father-in-law also had it, he's 67, no symptoms. He's healthy, I could use some work haha.

Number 2. My grandma died in Michigan about 2 weeks ago. She was 90. She died from COVID. Since the lockdowns, she became pretty depressed with not being able to see people. Her kidneys failed her and she passed away. But wait, she died from COVID? Yes, the doctor recommended putting COVID restrictions on her death certificate. Whether that will happen, can happen, I don't know. I don't even know how they can really judge it. However, knowing that she went from being able to seeing family and friends virtually every day, to virtually zero, had to take a toll on her. Now, she will have a funeral in 2 weeks, and only 25 people can go. What a world we live in.

Go have Thanksgiving with the people you always do. Go enjoy life. If you're fearful still, that's okay, a vaccine will hopefully come soon. But there's ZERO shot I'm listening to any "government recommendation" based on virtually zero science.

My condolences. My grandfather is feeling the exact same way your grandmother did. Solid work beating Covid.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I normally would agree but again, student loans aren't like other types of debt and it's the government/parents/society that helped contribute to this issue. We don't educate our young about finances. Tuition costs are out of control because the school knows they are going to get paid regardless of what they charge. The government is completely clueless and only causes more issues than they help.

Honestly, kids shouldn't be able to sign for loans until they are 21 or they pass some kind of financial literacy test. If the parent wants to take a loan on behalf of the kid then so be it. How many of us did stupid, stupid, stupid things when we were in high school? How many of us then had to pay on those stupid mistakes for 20+ years?

Let's take a look at something like a nurse. They accrue tens of thousands of debt even if they go to a state school. They get paid $50-$75k for something that is very technical, difficult, tiring, and thankless. People like that deserve to catch a break, especially now. Under normal circumstances, I'd say let them live and learn, but these loans are predatory and are given to people who don't know or understand what they are signing.

Maybe it's an empathy thing, but I feel for those who are living with crushing student loans. The consumer in me also would love to see people be able to spend more in the economy rather than it go to the government/banks, but mostly government ($1.5 trillion gov't to $119 billion private). Think of what $1 trillion entering the economy would look like, what that would feel like. Houses, cars, consumer, so on and so forth.

Not my problem, that's on the parents. As I've said at least ten times in this thread, people are stupid. It's not up to me to pay for their stupidity.

[thenwhatjk]

Figured someone in here would want to knock one out to this article

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/16/93552...dAzRA1y35iBXTw

[Boo]

Story on the local news this morning about grocery stores limiting purchases on TP and paper towel. They made a point to say the the stores said not to hoard, no supply issues. What do you think a story like that is going to make people do??? HOARD!

I fully expect Supreme Ruler Gov Wolf to shutdown PA by the end of the week. Schools, restaurants, sports.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Boo

Story on the local news this morning about grocery stores limiting purchases on TP and paper towel. They made a point to say the the stores said not to hoard, no supply issues. What do you think a story like that is going to make people do??? HOARD!

I fully expect Supreme Ruler Gov Wolf to shutdown PA by the end of the week. Schools, restaurants, sports.

Been thinking about going to the grocery store today to buy a few extra things of chicken. Then I think back to earlier in the year when the supply chain got up to speed pretty quickly and I fight that urge. Remember those idiots who bought tens of thousands of supplies to resell and lost it all and then had to pay fines on top of that? 2020 has been a weird year that's for sure.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Boo

Story on the local news this morning about grocery stores limiting purchases on TP and paper towel. They made a point to say the the stores said not to hoard, no supply issues. What do you think a story like that is going to make people do??? HOARD!

I fully expect Supreme Ruler Gov Wolf to shutdown PA by the end of the week. Schools, restaurants, sports.

It makes me slap my forehead is disbelief! What are they thinking?!??1!?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Boo

Not my problem, that's on the parents. As I've said at least ten times in this thread, people are stupid. It's not up to me to pay for their stupidity.

Perhaps it shouldn't be up to you, but it is.

We are part of a society. As such, we are intermingled. There will always be times we pay for the stupidity of our countrymen. That is the nature of society. Argue the fairness of it if you like, but denying its existence is hogwash.

The matter up for debate at this time is not whether we pay for others' stupidity, but rather how much we pay.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Boo]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Perhaps it shouldn't be up to you, but it is.

We are part of a society. As such, we are intermingled. There will always be times we pay for the stupidity of our countrymen. That is the nature of society. Argue the fairness of it if you like, but denying its existence is hogwash.

The matter up for debate at this time is not whether we pay for others' stupidity, but rather how much we pay.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[chippv]

Originally Posted by Boo

Story on the local news this morning about grocery stores limiting purchases on TP and paper towel. They made a point to say the the stores said not to hoard, no supply issues. What do you think a story like that is going to make people do??? HOARD!

I fully expect Supreme Ruler Gov Wolf to shutdown PA by the end of the week. Schools, restaurants, sports.

Very possible even though Wolf's puppet Levine said they are not planning on going back to a lockdown.

[fungi2510]

Originally Posted by Boo

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

If it was all that simple. Man is a social being, not an individual.

[thenwhatjk]

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by Boo

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

This was my thought on the whole "free" college idea. It's pretty easy to see the path were the government gives you a free education and upon graduation gives you a small list of what jobs you may enter. Sure you can do whatever you want, but if it's not government approved they'll send you a bill. The government should have never been involved in student loans and have obviously made the situation much worse. The only way I see to fix the problem is to get government out of it and make universities a place to learn again rather than showing off how much money they can put into buildings.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by thenwhatjk

To me that just highlights many things that need to be eliminated or made private.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

This was my thought on the whole "free" college idea. It's pretty easy to see the path were the government gives you a free education and upon graduation gives you a small list of what jobs you may enter. Sure you can do whatever you want, but if it's not government approved they'll send you a bill. The government should have never been involved in student loans and have obviously made the situation much worse. The only way I see to fix the problem is to get government out of it and make universities a place to learn again rather than showing off how much money they can put into buildings.

Other countries provide for free college education and I don't think they tell grads where they can or can't work and what fields they can work in. Why do people think the worst when things are given to people? Like everyone is out to get them.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

If it was all that simple. Man is a social being, not an individual.

That's a good point. However, how do you define a community? I think what you say works when the community is extended family, smaller towns, or even counties in rural areas. However, we have gone from that to the entire US and even sometimes the entire world as a "community". If my local school system set up an ongoing interest bearing account that local school tax money would go to in order to help fund college for local students I would have no problem with that; much better than having administrators making 6 figures in a small town. But no, I have no interest in having my federal tax dollars being taken to fund some government/university scam.