PMG Value - Please Explain

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

It is a to each their own situation. The defense of these feels like billy Madison saying you ain’t cool if you don’t pee your pants to me

Everyone is allowed to like what they like

It’s funny if I talk about what I like I’m hyping

If I say I don’t like something well I havent looked at it the right way or I don’t own one

This hobby and board is so jaded and cynical. For Good reason I guess.

It’s so hard to just give your opinion and be believed.

I think I will stop.

Quality post. You really can’t win around here.

[mindcycle]

Originally Posted by smalltown

Don't pass out on one of your binders and drool all over the freshly cracked cards.

[duron]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

It’s so hard to just give your opinion and be believed.

Dear Christ isn't this the truth

[Soleternity]

Originally Posted by natsturner

A few thoughts:

... It's hard to replicate that feeling these days, of pulling an exceptionally rare card (and one of the first serial numbered parallels) from a relatively, at the time, cheaper mass produced product compared to these days. It's like pulling one of the game jersey cards from 97-98 Upper Deck set, which were 1:2500 packs. Back then you didn't care if you hit Jordan or whatever in one of this inserts or parallels (although that would be great), you were just so excited to beat the odds, and the larger the odds the more excited you were. ...

... Back to the red/green PMG's, I still remember turning over that Kittles green PMG (not sure if all of them were, but this one was upside down in the pack) and seeing the bright green foil which really stood out even next to the innovative/colorful metal futuristic design of the base cards. Today, when I show people cards who haven't been exposed to them before, they often point to and ask questions about these PMG's, as they really stand out no matter what you put them up next to. ...

... Lastly, I'd argue the PSA comment is largely irrelevant. Meaning, condition/grade of the card or even (maybe this is controversial) if it was altered is a minor point. ...

Great post. Couldn't agree more. Especially with the clips above.

[mondogenerator]

another rare card, late 90s that doesnt get enough love

molten metal fusion titanium /40

freaking awesome metal card, with laser cut detail AND stupid rare.

in all my years of collecting stoudamire, ive only seen one and its the one i have.

seen many of the others mentioned.

[duron]

Originally Posted by mondogenerator

another rare card, late 90s that doesnt get enough love

molten metal fusion titanium /40

freaking awesome metal card, with laser cut detail AND stupid rare.

in all my years of collecting stoudamire, ive only seen one and its the one i have.

seen many of the others mentioned.

I've always disagreed with this just because of how similar they are to the unnumbered versions. Pretty sure they're the only serial numbers that are laser cut as opposed to stamped but cmon now. That and their rarity just aren't enough to boost the allure for me.

[imbluestreak23]

Never owned one but as a BKM subscriber growing up during the late 90s, these were my dream cards.

[Orndorff24a]

How do the 11-12 fleer retros compare on the “shine”?

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by natsturner

A few thoughts:

1. People can like whatever cards they like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Doesn't get better from a design perspective to me than the bright red or green foil with the futuristic background artwork, but realize that may not be everyone's view. Some people will say it's the ugliest design, others the best, oh well. I guess that polarization helps the popularity.

2. Rarity - these are truly rare. I opened a bunch of this product in the 90's (for a kid, this was my favorite pack to open) and actually pulled a Kittles green as some people know, so that had me hooked. I've also opened a bunch of boxes in the past ten years and didn't pull a red or green, which is frustrating but part of the allure. It's hard to replicate that feeling these days, of pulling an exceptionally rare card (and one of the first serial numbered parallels) from a relatively, at the time, cheaper mass produced product compared to these days. It's like pulling one of the game jersey cards from 97-98 Upper Deck set, which were 1:2500 packs. Back then you didn't care if you hit Jordan or whatever in one of this inserts or parallels (although that would be great), you were just so excited to beat the odds, and the larger the odds the more excited you were.

3. Uniqueness - it's hard to argue these things aren't unique. The championship PMG's /50 are awesome too, but they honestly look pretty similar to the base card. Same with the Skybox Premium Star Rubies parallels /50, and the 98-99 Metal PMG /50 parallel. The 97-98 E-X2001 credentials parallels are quite unique like the red/green PMG's, which may contribute to why they have taken off in value too (combined with their unique serial numbering sequence). Back to the red/green PMG's, I still remember turning over that Kittles green PMG (not sure if all of them were, but this one was upside down in the pack) and seeing the bright green foil which really stood out even next to the innovative/colorful metal futuristic design of the base cards. Today, when I show people cards who haven't been exposed to them before, they often point to and ask questions about these PMG's, as they really stand out no matter what you put them up next to.

4. Lastly, I'd argue the PSA comment is largely irrelevant. Meaning, condition/grade of the card or even (maybe this is controversial) if it was altered is a minor point. What's important is the existence of the card and ultimately owning it, as they are so exceedingly rare. I still maintain 20-30% of the population of both green and red are lost, either because kids back then pulled them (remember, these packs back then were like $2-3, i.e., accessible to everyone) and put them away somewhere not realizing what they had and were likely thrown away, or they are still in packs somewhere. The 001/ Jordan Green was pulled from a pack not that long ago, for example. So, just possessing the card is a big deal, condition is highly secondary. I bet of the 90 red's each card has, maybe 70 of them are actually out there, and 7-8 of the Greens. I've tracked a bunch of the various players as I tried to acquire them. Jordan, which is likely the one with the highest current population (as kids and collectors back then knew Jordan more than anyone and probably coveted/saved those cards over time), I've been able to identify 8 of the Greens location and that they exist. For some lesser known players, in some cases I haven't found any in existence (examples include Brian Grant and LaPhonso Ellis, and John Wallace), or one or two total. Granted not a lot of people are advertising they own common cards of these rare parallels, and every now and then one pops up out of nowhere (example, Mookie Blaylock) from some person who went and found their 90's collection, but still a bunch of these were lost.

Hope that helps

-Nat

Agree with this whole post, but the bolded part especially. For the record, liking ANY of these cards doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

In my view though the intricate etching and bright reflective foil still stands out all these years later. I don't have a basketball Championship PMG in my collection at this point, but I did recently acquire a Moss RC, and when I look at it - I think about Select Scope cards. It's a cool card, but it doesn't move the dial as much for me. The PMGs and credentials (and Jambalayas I would add) are so over the top and unique, they embody everything about 90s collecting that I loved.

[Sprewell8]

Originally Posted by natsturner

A few thoughts:

1. People can like whatever cards they like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Doesn't get better from a design perspective to me than the bright red or green foil with the futuristic background artwork, but realize that may not be everyone's view. Some people will say it's the ugliest design, others the best, oh well. I guess that polarization helps the popularity.

2. Rarity - these are truly rare. I opened a bunch of this product in the 90's (for a kid, this was my favorite pack to open) and actually pulled a Kittles green as some people know, so that had me hooked. I've also opened a bunch of boxes in the past ten years and didn't pull a red or green, which is frustrating but part of the allure. It's hard to replicate that feeling these days, of pulling an exceptionally rare card (and one of the first serial numbered parallels) from a relatively, at the time, cheaper mass produced product compared to these days. It's like pulling one of the game jersey cards from 97-98 Upper Deck set, which were 1:2500 packs. Back then you didn't care if you hit Jordan or whatever in one of this inserts or parallels (although that would be great), you were just so excited to beat the odds, and the larger the odds the more excited you were.

3. Uniqueness - it's hard to argue these things aren't unique. The championship PMG's /50 are awesome too, but they honestly look pretty similar to the base card. Same with the Skybox Premium Star Rubies parallels /50, and the 98-99 Metal PMG /50 parallel. The 97-98 E-X2001 credentials parallels are quite unique like the red/green PMG's, which may contribute to why they have taken off in value too (combined with their unique serial numbering sequence). Back to the red/green PMG's, I still remember turning over that Kittles green PMG (not sure if all of them were, but this one was upside down in the pack) and seeing the bright green foil which really stood out even next to the innovative/colorful metal futuristic design of the base cards. Today, when I show people cards who haven't been exposed to them before, they often point to and ask questions about these PMG's, as they really stand out no matter what you put them up next to.

4. Lastly, I'd argue the PSA comment is largely irrelevant. Meaning, condition/grade of the card or even (maybe this is controversial) if it was altered is a minor point. What's important is the existence of the card and ultimately owning it, as they are so exceedingly rare. I still maintain 20-30% of the population of both green and red are lost, either because kids back then pulled them (remember, these packs back then were like $2-3, i.e., accessible to everyone) and put them away somewhere not realizing what they had and were likely thrown away, or they are still in packs somewhere. The 001/ Jordan Green was pulled from a pack not that long ago, for example. So, just possessing the card is a big deal, condition is highly secondary. I bet of the 90 red's each card has, maybe 70 of them are actually out there, and 7-8 of the Greens. I've tracked a bunch of the various players as I tried to acquire them. Jordan, which is likely the one with the highest current population (as kids and collectors back then knew Jordan more than anyone and probably coveted/saved those cards over time), I've been able to identify 8 of the Greens location and that they exist. For some lesser known players, in some cases I haven't found any in existence (examples include Brian Grant and LaPhonso Ellis, and John Wallace), or one or two total. Granted not a lot of people are advertising they own common cards of these rare parallels, and every now and then one pops up out of nowhere (example, Mookie Blaylock) from some person who went and found their 90's collection, but still a bunch of these were lost.

Hope that helps

-Nat

Well said, Nat.

1) Best design imo. I encourage people to watch Josh's episode with Jean of Arena Design (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf7jdv01ASk). They created the PMGs and explain what went into making them.

2) Set has all the great star and semi-star players we loved watching in the 90s as kids.

3) One of first serially numbered parallels produced as you stated.

4) People who even know nothing about basketball cards (no skin in the game) ask me about the few I own before anything else they see. That tells me everything.

5) Rarity - Definitely agree at least 20% were lost, thrown away, destroyed in natural disasters, etc. Some are probably still in packs, but more have been lost I believe.

[Italy61587]

I collected as a kid in the 90s, kinda agree. Never knew why this set blew up. I've seen them in person, they're meh. Showcase Legacy collection way better looking. 97-98 premium rubies and EX credentials also better looking

[maconithappen]

Those new "art" projects people are doing with cards remind me of the PMG green and reds

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by Italy61587

I collected as a kid in the 90s, kinda agree. Never knew why this set blew up. I've seen them in person, they're meh. Showcase Legacy collection way better looking. 97-98 premium rubies and EX credentials also better looking

Yeah, I'm more partial to those as well. Showcase Legacy one of my favs, such great design, and absolutely love E-x and credentials. But I can see the appeal of the PMGs, even if they aren't my personal favorites the designs are cool along with the serial numbered rarity. Preference just comes down to varying tastes in design and what one is looking for in a card. Would be boring if absolutely everyone liked the same exact thing that's for sure!