2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Really?



Do you know how many of these 2.8 million annual deaths could have been prevented and were premature because people simply didn't take care of themselves? Alcohol, drugs, smoking, obesity etc.



COVID is a drop in the bucket if you want to go down the preventable road.

Yes, I do want to go down that road.

Getting fat (which I'm not) or using alcohol or whatever is a personal choice that doesn't put others' safety at risk...only one's own. Covid is different. Disregarding Covid is like driving drunk in that you may unintentionally harm others.

Gftoh with that crap, sir. If you can't see the difference, I say it's because you don't want to. Seriously, nobody is that dumb. You are not. Stop acting like you are.

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[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

PA cannot canvass before election day per state law. Under normal circumstances, they could easily process them on election day because before this year there weren't that many. But there are going to be upwards of 3M this year (2.37M already in), of which current returns show registered Dems returning over 1M more than the GOP. This basically guarantees that before these are counted, Trump will be in the lead.

Now why don't they just change the law? The short answer is that the state GOP said no. It sounds cynical but my interpretation is that they want there to be mass confusion and distrust in the result in hopes that they can get SCOTUS to intervene on their behalf regarding late-arriving ballots or the whole "naked" ballot issue. Will it work? We'll find on not Tuesday, but in the days after. Of course, there is the possibility that Trump or Biden have the requisite 270 EVs already at which point the decision would not particularly matter for this election but could set precedent for future ones.

This is correct. There are multiple states where the GOP wouldn't let the ballots start getting counted sooner (there were some that they did extend the timeframe even if it wasn't by much). Since it was widely reported that the mail in ballots are likely going to favor the Democrats combined with Trump continuously attacking vote by mail they want to be able to cast doubt on any results that don't go in his favor. If Trump were to be winning alot on election night but eventually get passed in the next few days him and the GOP are going to scream bloody murder.

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I will say that in the betting markets; tonight ... the money has come in extremely strong on Trump across all states. He's now a favorite in AZ and NC, huge favorite in OH, IA, TX; almost -200 in Florida. The level of dem sweat tonight is a little ridiculous IMHO but people are getting nervous. There are plenty of signs that Dems are in trouble if you look for them.

But there are also plenty that say Trump is in trouble in the north. I still think Biden wins, but I'm less sure of it today than I was yesterday.

Pretty much agree on all fronts here. I don’t think Biden wins TX but the early voting turnout in Houston, Austin, and Dallas has me very interested in the margin there. I think the oil comments probably screwed whatever chance he had of winning there but I think it could be under 5 points

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

Pretty much agree on all fronts here. I don’t think Biden wins TX but the early voting turnout in Houston, Austin, and Dallas has me very interested in the margin there. I think the oil comments probably screwed whatever chance he had of winning there but I think it could be under 5 points

Yea, I have no read on Texas at all. The turnout in that state has been dreadful for decades, now all of a sudden, they're gonna increase it by 50% in one election?

Does that mean more Republicans voting; Dems voting? IDK. But I don't think it means Trump losing because 800,000 votes is just too great a hill to climb in one cycle.

[mike1498]

I'm curious how many people picked Ohio to be lost by the winner of the election. It's only happened twice in the last 30 elections. I would've assumed for the amount of people who picked biden to win the election, they would have him winning ohio too.

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Yea, I have no read on Texas at all. The turnout in that state has been dreadful for decades, now all of a sudden, they're gonna increase it by 50% in one election?

Does that mean more Republicans voting; Dems voting? IDK. But I don't think it means Trump losing because 800,000 votes is just too great a hill to climb in one cycle.

Beto only lost there by 2.5% in 2018 but I attribute that more to Ted Cruz being one of the most unlikable humans on the planet

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Yes, I do want to go down that road.

Getting fat (which I'm not) or using alcohol or whatever is a personal choice that doesn't put others' safety at risk...only one's own. Covid is different. Disregarding Covid is like driving drunk in that you may unintentionally harm others.

Gftoh with that crap, sir. If you can't see the difference, I say it's because you don't want to. Seriously, nobody is that dumb. You are not. Stop acting like you are.

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Nobody is that dumb you say? I accept the challenge!

First addressing the false equivalency. If your argument is that walking into a grocery story without a mask is like driving drunk; then please don't respond to this. This conversation can go nowhere because you're then clearly drunk and need to sleep it off.

Second, it's nice to know you're not fat. Adds to the value and argument you are attempting to make here.

Third, to say things like Alcohol and smoking do not effect the health of other is also pretty LOL. It does. It does greatly. It may not do it in the "passing you a virus" kind of way, but I'm willing to bet if you asked friends and family of people who do these things regularly, you may find that their health has been impacted. You should look into it.

Fourth and final; to agree w/ a single sentence of JD is to sign your soul away to the devil. I hope you'll reconsider in the future; when your time comes and you are to be judged, you don't want that on the list.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Yes, I do want to go down that road.

Getting fat (which I'm not) or using alcohol or whatever is a personal choice that doesn't put others' safety at risk...only one's own. Covid is different. Disregarding Covid is like driving drunk in that you may unintentionally harm others.

Gftoh with that crap, sir. If you can't see the difference, I say it's because you don't want to. Seriously, nobody is that dumb. You are not. Stop acting like you are.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

I know people hate to hear the Influenza argument but it was credited with roughly 60,000 deaths last year and I doubt it has been inflated as much as Covid.

(I could be wrong but I believe they calculated deaths different from the annual Flu and how they do for Covid do to political/financial reasons, is there a difference anymore?).

Did you go around wearing masks, social distancing, shutting down businesses, ect last year? If not, why? 60,000 preventable deaths is a lot, its not Covid but its a lot and preventable.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

100% guaranteed that Trump is well ahead in PA when everyone goes to sleep Tuesday night. To my recollection, 11 counties in PA won't even begin the process of opening mailed ballots until Wednesday; so there will be 0's on the board in terms of those votes; largely democratic we assume.

Then everyday, for as many days as it takes, that Trump lead will be cut into. I can see it now; every major news network having a breaking story at 6pm to let the country know of how many votes Trump leads by and what the likeliness of him losing the lead is.

It won't be good. And I do hope someone has the votes before that drama begins.

You do realize that this is EXACTLY why the GOP hasn't been willing to allow a deal on counting the early ballots, right?

They literally want what you described to happen as it will help Trump spin the narrative of ballots magically showing up to make sure Biden wins the state.

Like you said, there is basically a 100% chance this is how the state goes due to overwhelming dems use of mail in ballots. Counting the ballots early does three things.... it keeps there from being controversy over the results, it eliminates the chances of a big Trump lead at the end of election night, and it provides a chance for anyone who mailed in a ballot incorrectly to fix the issue to make sure their (likely Biden) vote counts.

There is no actual non-partisan reason for the ballots to not be processed early (like Florida has done for YEARS with no GOP pushback).

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I'm curious how many people picked Ohio to be lost by the winner of the election. It's only happened twice in the last 30 elections. I would've assumed for the amount of people who picked biden to win the election, they would have him winning ohio too.

Ohio is a strong Republican state now; Trump has it in the bag.

I think states have been transitioning out of normal roles for the last few election cycles now and the # of actual purple states is shrinking. Florida being another that continues to drift right; they've been governed Red for a generation now; two Red senators and voting for Trump. It's typically not something you see change in one election, but over time.

Texas, Georgia, PA and Wisconsin are purpling. These are going to be the states that determine elections for a bulk of our lifetimes (like the Ohios and Floridas of the past)

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Yea, I have no read on Texas at all. The turnout in that state has been dreadful for decades, now all of a sudden, they're gonna increase it by 50% in one election?

Does that mean more Republicans voting; Dems voting? IDK. But I don't think it means Trump losing because 800,000 votes is just too great a hill to climb in one cycle.

Well getting 100K+ votes thrown out in a very heavily democratic county won't exactly help.

It's absurd that perfectly legal votes are trying to be thrown out possibly the day before the election, something the Texas Supreme Court allowed to take place (which is fully republican by the way) but that didn't get the votes tossed so they go the federal route, it's a joke.

The GOP isn't even trying to hide the fact that they want to steal the election now, Trump makes all his claims about voter fraud with zero actual evidence of it, yet the GOP blatantly and openly is trying to get legitimate votes thrown away as they know they're overwhelmingly for Biden.

How any Republican or Trump supporter can actually say this isn't wrong is just beyond me.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

You do realize that this is EXACTLY why the GOP hasn't been willing to allow a deal on counting the early ballots, right?

They literally want what you described to happen as it will help Trump spin the narrative of ballots magically showing up to make sure Biden wins the state.

Like you said, there is basically a 100% chance this is how the state goes due to overwhelming dems use of mail in ballots. Counting the ballots early does three things.... it keeps there from being controversy over the results, it eliminates the chances of a big Trump lead at the end of election night, and it provides a chance for anyone who mailed in a ballot incorrectly to fix the issue to make sure their (likely Biden) vote counts.

There is no actual non-partisan reason for the ballots to not be processed early (like Florida has done for YEARS with no GOP pushback).

I understand this is the conspiratorial take, yes. I don't subscribe to it however.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Well getting 100K+ votes thrown out in a very heavily democratic county won't exactly help.

It's absurd that perfectly legal votes are trying to be thrown out possibly the day before the election, something the Texas Supreme Court allowed to take place (which is fully republican by the way) but that didn't get the votes tossed so they go the federal route, it's a joke.

The GOP isn't even trying to hide the fact that they want to steal the election now, Trump makes all his claims about voter fraud with zero actual evidence of it, yet the GOP blatantly and openly is trying to get legitimate votes thrown away as they know they're overwhelmingly for Biden.

How any Republican or Trump supporter can actually say this isn't wrong is just beyond me.

If they're perfectly legal votes, then they won't be thrown out.

Nothing to worry about.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Texas, Georgia, PA and Wisconsin are purpling. These are going to be the states that determine elections for a bulk of our lifetimes (like the Ohios and Floridas of the past)

I think Texas will fly past being purple and turn very blue in the not too distant future (maybe 10-15 years?).

It might not happen this year, but it won't be long before the Democrats win the state and ends up holding it for awhile. The fast expansion of the main city centers has pushed it already up to the brink, and that's not slowing down anytime soon.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

I think Texas will fly past being purple and turn very blue in the not too distant future (maybe 10-15 years?).

It might not happen this year, but it won't be long before the Democrats win the state and ends up holding it for awhile. The fast expansion of the main city centers has pushed it already up to the brink, and that's not slowing down anytime soon.

The second you start voting in Dems, you better believe those fast expansions will slow down!

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I understand this is the conspiratorial take, yes. I don't subscribe to it however.

So give me a valid reason the GOP has been fighting to allow the votes to be processed early? Numerous states already do it, it doesn't lead to fraud, so why is it all of a sudden the worst idea ever when it involves a state that may decide the election and is leaning towards Biden.

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

If they're perfectly legal votes, then they won't be thrown out.

Nothing to worry about.

The GOP's argument is essentially the person who allowed that style of voting to take place didn't have the authority to do it. It went all the way through the State Supreme Court and they said there was nothing wrong with it.

100K+ votes have been cast, with the people doing the voting itself having done nothing wrong and fully believed their votes were valid as their own Republican run Supreme Court said so.

Nobody who voted there voted under a fake name, or using someone else's ballot, or shouldn't have been allowed to vote, but because there MIGHT be the smallest legal loophole to say the votes shouldn't be counted, you're okay with them getting tossed out the day before the election despite the numerous courts already ruling them legal?

It's not like this was any other year where they just set up a new way to vote to "steal" votes, they set up a safe way to allow people to vote during a pandemic, something many states have done. It's so sad that people are willing to go along with trying to get them tossed because it benefits their candidate.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

The second you start voting in Dems, you better believe those fast expansions will slow down!

Yes, It will not take long for them to realize that they don't like blue. Texas may tip dem for a cycle, but it won't remain that way. They are no California. Arizona will flip blue well before Texas ever would.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

So give me a valid reason the GOP has been fighting to allow the votes to be processed early? Numerous states already do it, it doesn't lead to fraud, so why is it all of a sudden the worst idea ever when it involves a state that may decide the election and is leaning towards Biden.

The GOP's argument is essentially the person who allowed that style of voting to take place didn't have the authority to do it. It went all the way through the State Supreme Court and they said there was nothing wrong with it.

100K+ votes have been cast, with the people doing the voting itself having done nothing wrong and fully believed their votes were valid as their own Republican run Supreme Court said so.

Nobody who voted there voted under a fake name, or using someone else's ballot, or shouldn't have been allowed to vote, but because there MIGHT be the smallest legal loophole to say the votes shouldn't be counted, you're okay with them getting tossed out the day before the election despite the numerous courts already ruling them legal?

It's not like this was any other year where they just set up a new way to vote to "steal" votes, they set up a safe way to allow people to vote during a pandemic, something many states have done. It's so sad that people are willing to go along with trying to get them tossed because it benefits their candidate.

Do you have a white paper on how many conspiracies you can take up at once? Is it per state or can you have like five going in Texas at the same time? More details please.

And no, I don't have to give you an explanation. I don't know why PA couldn't figure it out; there's a lot of stories about how a deal was agreed to but never signed off on, Wolf blaming Republicans, Republicans blaming Wolf. I live in CT, have no idea ... all I know is that they're dumb for letting this happen. Sure there's plenty of blame to go around.

As for Texas, I have no idea what is going on, I just know that it's probably more pre-election hoopla that matters little. Don't work yourself up over it, Texas will handle it!

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Onions

Yes, It will not take long for them to realize that they don't like blue. Texas may tip dem for a cycle, but it won't remain that way. They are no California. Arizona will flip blue well before Texas ever would.

AZ has been trending that way too. Two blue senators on the way in and I think no matter what, this is probably the last time it's a Red presidential win (may not even be this time).

It's part of the reason why Trump's win was so surprising. The blue wall was something very real and something that most people thought impenetrable in the cycle. But once the first state fell, they all fell like dominoes. Why I believe states still vote in buckets; you might just be able to peel one state out of the bucket but more likely than not if you get one, you get them all.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

So give me a valid reason the GOP has been fighting to allow the votes to be processed early? Numerous states already do it, it doesn't lead to fraud, so why is it all of a sudden the worst idea ever when it involves a state that may decide the election and is leaning towards Biden.



The GOP's argument is essentially the person who allowed that style of voting to take place didn't have the authority to do it. It went all the way through the State Supreme Court and they said there was nothing wrong with it.

100K+ votes have been cast, with the people doing the voting itself having done nothing wrong and fully believed their votes were valid as their own Republican run Supreme Court said so.

Nobody who voted there voted under a fake name, or using someone else's ballot, or shouldn't have been allowed to vote, but because there MIGHT be the smallest legal loophole to say the votes shouldn't be counted, you're okay with them getting tossed out the day before the election despite the numerous courts already ruling them legal?

It's not like this was any other year where they just set up a new way to vote to "steal" votes, they set up a safe way to allow people to vote during a pandemic, something many states have done. It's so sad that people are willing to go along with trying to get them tossed because it benefits their candidate.

Who's responsibility is it for their vote to count? You want to make sure it is counted, go vote in person. You want to maybe have your vote counted? Go drop your ballot at the post office on the same day they are supposed to be counting them and hope for the best. We have been voting for weeks now. No reason to not have your voice heard in a reliable way. Pandemic or not.

I'm not letting my vote be subject to the post office.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

As for Texas, I have no idea what is going on, I just know that it's probably more pre-election hoopla that matters little. Don't work yourself up over it, Texas will handle it!

I feel like this just shows you haven't looked into it at all, it's not that complicated.

A local official set up the drive thru voting due to the pandemic believing it was in their ability to do so, the GOP felt it shouldn't be up to them but it should be a state decision. It went all the way through the State Supreme Court and they said it should be allowed to continue.

Now the GOP has appealed it in a federal court and one of the most known partisan judges has already set up a hearing for it on Monday morning.

Sure, maybe the votes don't get thrown out, but just the fact that they're trying to get them thrown out is crazy and shows the GOP has no problem trying to stop people from voting. Had it been such an illegal thing to do, it never would have made it all the way through a full republican State Supreme Court.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by Onions

Who's responsibility is it for their vote to count? You want to make sure it is counted, go vote in person. You want to maybe have your vote counted? Go drop your ballot at the post office on the same day they are supposed to be counting them and hope for the best. We have been voting for weeks now. No reason to not have your voice heard in a reliable way. Pandemic or not.

I'm not letting my vote be subject to the post office.

Have you read any of this or even know what you're talking about?

None of this is about mail in ballots, these are people who went and voted early in person. But instead of going inside a building, this county allowed them to do it in their cars in basically a drive thru method and the GOP is now trying to have those votes thrown out.

So how is it on these people for not having their vote counted now? They went in person, before election day, to a way that their local government set up, approved, and was approved all the way through the State Supreme Court.

Tell me how they put their vote being counted in someone else's hands that they shouldn't have trusted?

[ucLAkers]

Has this drama been discussed yet?
Seriously?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...emplate=ampart

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by ucLAkers

Has this drama been discussed yet?
Seriously?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...emplate=ampart

According to the Texas Tribune the FBI is investigating this

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Really?

Do you know how many of these 2.8 million annual deaths could have been prevented and were premature because people simply didn't take care of themselves? Alcohol, drugs, smoking, obesity etc.

COVID is a drop in the bucket if you want to go down the preventable road.

Ive always said that if you really wanted to prevent people from dying, you would ban meat, sugar, alcohol, cigarettes, and cars that travel over 20 mph.