Calling it now-Mahomes is dealing with a problem in his throwing shoulder

[Tallguy1991]

I played quarterback at a division 1 school from 2009-14, and while that and 25 cents will get me a brand new gumball in the year 2020 I mention it because I had enough experience playing higher level ball to get pretty good at picking stuff up relating to qb play on tape. I spent so many years watching film every single day that it’s impossible for me to watch games without picking apart the different things happening on all levels of the field, especially under center.

Anyway, I might never hear the end of this if he heals up before the playoffs and never acknowledges it, but I’d bet my house and every dime I have in the bank that Pat Mahomes is dealing with an injury to his arm, specifically his shoulder, that’s significant enough to make me worry. If you roll tape from almost any game last year and compare it to what you see this year it’s pretty easy to pick up on some troubling signs, and Andy Reid is clearly being very careful what he calls on offense. I still think that even with arm trouble Mahomes is in a class of his own among NFL quarterbacks, but I hope that doesn’t wind up becoming permanent. This kid has put a LOT of miles on his arm-if you look at the number of innings/pitches he threw as an elite starting pitcher, and how through high school and college he was QB1 for 7-8 years of insanely pass happy 60-70 attempts per game Air Raid offenses, it’s kind of amazing that he’s avoided any arm problems for this long anyway. He’s a generational megastar and as someone who loves watching gunslinger quarterbacks dominating games I really hope he stays healthy so don’t think I’m writing this for any negative reasons. I’m just surprised that this isn’t a major story yet, I’ve called a few buddies that I played ball with and they all 100 percent agreed with my assessment on this so you know there must be chatter around the league. Worth monitoring going forward, here’s hoping that he puts his long term health first and takes care of himself

[Ray27Ray52]

First....

[Dbacksbaseball]

Nothing is going to go wrong with this thread at all......

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Tallguy1991

I played quarterback at a division 1 school from 2009-14, and while that and 25 cents will get me a brand new gumball in the year 2020 I mention it because I had enough experience playing higher level ball to get pretty good at picking stuff up relating to qb play on tape. I spent so many years watching film every single day that it’s impossible for me to watch games without picking apart the different things happening on all levels of the field, especially under center.

Anyway, I might never hear the end of this if he heals up before the playoffs and never acknowledges it, but I’d bet my house and every dime I have in the bank that Pat Mahomes is dealing with an injury to his arm, specifically his shoulder, that’s significant enough to make me worry. If you roll tape from almost any game last year and compare it to what you see this year it’s pretty easy to pick up on some troubling signs, and Andy Reid is clearly being very careful what he calls on offense. I still think that even with arm trouble Mahomes is in a class of his own among NFL quarterbacks, but I hope that doesn’t wind up becoming permanent. This kid has put a LOT of miles on his arm-if you look at the number of innings/pitches he threw as an elite starting pitcher, and how through high school and college he was QB1 for 7-8 years of insanely pass happy 60-70 attempts per game Air Raid offenses, it’s kind of amazing that he’s avoided any arm problems for this long anyway. He’s a generational megastar and as someone who loves watching gunslinger quarterbacks dominating games I really hope he stays healthy so don’t think I’m writing this for any negative reasons. I’m just surprised that this isn’t a major story yet, I’ve called a few buddies that I played ball with and they all 100 percent agreed with my assessment on this so you know there must be chatter around the league. Worth monitoring going forward, here’s hoping that he puts his long term health first and takes care of himself

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

First....

Come on RayRay, you are better than that. Quote it!

[Tallguy1991]

Originally Posted by Dbacksbaseball

Nothing is going to go wrong with this thread at all......

Oh I fully expect many many meltdowns. I’m just stating objective analysis drawn from a body of evidence, but inevitably people who don’t want this to be true will get all hot and bothered


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[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by Boo

Come on RayRay, you are better than that. Quote it!

[KhalDrogo]

Paid half a billion dollars to a guy with a shoulder problem three months ago. Makes perfect sense.

[Tallguy1991]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Paid half a billion dollars to a guy with a shoulder problem three months ago. Makes perfect sense.

This is something that wasn’t there three months ago. Ball don’t lie


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[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Tallguy1991

This is something that wasn’t there three months ago. Ball don’t lie


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But you are suggesting that the Chiefs are hiding his injury, therefore violating league policy on disclosure of injuries on the weekly injury report.

What’s more likely? You being wrong, or the Chiefs withholding information and lying on the injury report?

[heatdawg]

I think 99% of the league is injured in some shape or form right now. Otherwise, if this lowers his prices more, I am all for it. Sell on the fear!

[UGLI baby]

I played NAIA Division II golf from 2004-2008, and I am subscribing to this thread.

[dave2424]

Lamar Jackson must have been hurt for at least 2 years by your assesment, because he hasn't thrown well in least 2 years.

[Tallguy1991]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

But you are suggesting that the Chiefs are hiding his injury, therefore violating league policy on disclosure of injuries on the weekly injury report.

What’s more likely? You being wrong, or the Chiefs withholding information and lying on the injury report?

Buddy. If you don’t think that NFL teams routinely do that with their stars then you haven’t been paying attention. I took special care to make sure in the post above I made it clear that 1) even a hurting Mahomes is still a Martian and will be the best at what he does and 2) it’s not at a stage yet where it’s truly a huge deal. He’s in his early 20s, even if he’s got an injury that winds up causing him to miss games there’s a huge likelihood he’d be able to heal completely in a matter of weeks/months. He wouldn’t be the first kid to have thrown way too much for too long and wind up with a sore shoulder. If you’d like I can try and grab some GIFs that illustrate what I’m talking about here, I know you don’t want him to have any level of injury and neither do I but the tape doesn’t lie, man


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[Ray27Ray52]

Oh snap. We are breaking out the buddy and guy now.

[Tallguy1991]

Just a PSA here guys. Football players pretty much spend all season nursing injuries of various degrees, Mahomes is a godly QB1 but nobody is immune to the rigors of a football season


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[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Tallguy1991

Buddy. If you don’t think that NFL teams routinely do that with their stars then you haven’t been paying attention. I took special care to make sure in the post above I made it clear that 1) even a hurting Mahomes is still a Martian and will be the best at what he does and 2) it’s not at a stage yet where it’s truly a huge deal. He’s in his early 20s, even if he’s got an injury that winds up causing him to miss games there’s a huge likelihood he’d be able to heal completely in a matter of weeks/months. He wouldn’t be the first kid to have thrown way too much for too long and wind up with a sore shoulder. If you’d like I can try and grab some GIFs that illustrate what I’m talking about here, I know you don’t want him to have any level of injury and neither do I but the tape doesn’t lie, man


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1. Don’t call me buddy.
2. You dodged the question.

[bubble]

I won’t disagree that the offense is more conservative than it has been the past couple of years, but Mahomes still hasn’t had any trouble with his deep ball accuracy or distance. I think the addition of CEH has led to more dump passes and runs, which may be to limit the stress on Mahomes. I’m not sold this is due to an injury though. If the Chiefs are down two possessions, the offense will adjust. I’m sure you’re right, I bet there are some nagging injuries he is dealing with, but to me as a Chiefs fan who watches every game, I don’t see anything that indicates his arm is any less capable of making big time throws this year.

[TheFrenzy]

I didn't play D1 football but I did grow around the OR and orthopaedic surgeons. I've stood in the room for countless knee surgeries and labrum repairs.

I haven't watched any Chiefs games this season, but video of Mahomes warming up yesterday does show him dropping his shoulder and giving more of a side arm delivery than usual.

The most likely explanation is inflammation of the rotator cuff tendons. I say most likely because tendons tend to bear the brunt of rapidly increased workout loads much more than muscles. Or, exactly what happened around the league with no real offseason/preseason. Mahomes' pectorals and other throwing muscles rebounded quickly once the workload resumed, but right now (four weeks into the season) would be about right for the rebounding muscles to be inflaming the lagging tendons.

This wouldn't be anything serious. A lightened passing load and some anti-inflammatories (if Mahomes wants to take them) would get him by until the tendons have re-acclimated to the work.

Even worst case, a torn labrum, is pretty minor. Sink some anchors into the bone, reattach any loose tendons ends, and he'd be good as new in a few months.

[Scottish Punk]

Are you saying this because the ball is coming out as tightly as usual? I would present the evidence and your hypothesis. Otherwise your likely just going to get the usual trolls out ridiculing your post.

[dave2424]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

I didn't play D1 football but I did grow around the OR and orthopaedic surgeons. I've stood in the room for countless knee surgeries and labrum repairs.

I haven't watched any Chiefs games this season, but video of Mahomes warming up yesterday does show him dropping his shoulder and giving more of a side arm delivery than usual.

The most likely explanation is inflammation of the rotator cuff tendons. I say most likely because tendons tend to bear the brunt of rapidly increased workout loads much more than muscles. Or, exactly what happened around the league with no real offseason/preseason. Mahomes' pectorals and other throwing muscles rebounded quickly once the workload resumed, but right now (four weeks into the season) would be about right for the rebounding muscles to be inflaming the lagging tendons.

This wouldn't be anything serious. A lightened passing load and some anti-inflammatories (if Mahomes wants to take them) would get him by until the tendons have re-acclimated to the work.

Even worst case, a torn labrum, is pretty minor. Sink some anchors into the bone, reattach any loose tendons ends, and he'd be good as new in a few months.

Watch him throw similiar to that every night on the news, and in warmups.

[CanadianKid]

I am not sure if it qualifies me but I once scored 4 TD's in a single game in HS.

I have no doubt the Chiefs would violate league policy and believe they would get away with it. For starters they have the #1 NFL commodity and #2 No one seems to care they are staying the CHIEFS while others are forced to change. History is clear, as long as you are a winner you have a license to do what you want.

[Tallguy1991]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

1. Don’t call me buddy.
2. You dodged the question.

Not dodging the question, Sir Drogo of the Knights of The Keyboard. I humbly apologize for being so presumptuous and using the word “buddy” when addressing your high holiness.


The kid’s arm hurts. I also know judging from your reactions already that you’re highly unlikely to be able to discuss this objectively and keep your fandom on the sidelines. The reason I prefaced my post above with the blurb about my experience in the game isnt some attempt to brag and I thought I’d made that clear...the fact of the matter is that I spent years being trained to watch the game from a quarterbacks perspective and interpret whatever the tape showed, and it’s different from learning to watch on your couch. I’m not saying that I’m somehow better at watching football than anyone else, or anything like that, I’m just saying it’s different. I’m aware that I come off as condescending to some when i say that stuff, but football is a big part of what I’ve done thus far in my life and it’s too relevant to not mention. I literally spent at least 10 to 15 hours (and often far more than that) per week on film study starting at age 13, and I didn’t stop till just before I turned 23. My offensive coordinator as a freshman wound up as a head coach in the NFL for a period of time, and he was who taught me the most of anyone about how to digest game tape. I still pay every fall to make sure I get the all-22 game tapes from around the league, partly because I still have a couple former teammates and rivals that stuck around in pro ball but also because it is the way I feel I get the most out of whats happening on the field. Im explaining all of this because I’m hoping it makes it clear I’m not just talking out of my rectum here or speculating, the tape clearly shows that somethings not right.


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[tjforce]

Originally Posted by CanadianKid

I am not sure if it qualifies me but I nice scored 4 TD's in a single game in HS.

I have no doubt the Chiefs would violate league policy and believe they would get away with it. For starters they have the #1 NFL commodity and #2 No one seems to care they are staying the CHIEFS while others are forced to change.

As for the OPs point. I'm not saying you are wrong... but I'm not sure I'm buying it either.

Could you give some examples showing some proof that something might be wrong?

One example to the contrary would be the TD toss he had against the Ravens on MNF.... slinging the ball 55 yards after backpedaling, right on the money, with no wincing or showing pain.

From my limited experience as a D1 player myself, as well as being a low level assistant under Urban Meyer and about a half dozen other NCAA/NFL head coaches, what I see is KC very much tailoring their game plan based on opponent:

Plans were pretty conservative vs New England and Houston. More aggressive in the 4th quarter vs L.A. when they were down, and much more aggressive vs Baltimore in a game that most expected would be a shoot out.

I've seen nothing that makes me worry.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by CanadianKid

I have no doubt the Chiefs would violate league policy and believe they would get away with it.

If it's tendon inflammation, that's usually up to the team's discretion. Sometimes teams will report it, sometimes not. The most common disclosure of problematic cases of inflammation are coach interviews. Generally to let fans know why a guy hasn't been on the field as much lately or why a player was held out of practice.

[CanadianKid]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

If it's tendon inflammation, that's usually up to the team's discretion. Sometimes teams will report it, sometimes not. The most common disclosure of problematic cases of inflammation are coach interviews. Generally to let fans know why a guy hasn't been on the field as much lately or why a player was held out of practice.

I can accept that if they team truly believes the player will not be exiting the game early due to the inflammation.