eBay Raw Card Purchases - What's reasonable for a return?

[Rucchin]

Buyer beware when buying raw. But don’t be shy to ask for more pictures and to flat out ask if there are scratches or pits on the card. I know some sellers find that annoying but full disclosure will solve all these problems. If the seller won’t accommodate your requests then you’ve gotten a Clear indication that card is not for you.

[matt roberson]

If you feel deceived its probably justified.

It's 2020, any decent phone can take good picks.... there is no reason to not have good images on an auction of anything worth over $20 unless your hiding something.

surface dimples are common on chrome cards so I wouldn't worry about it too much, if you couldn't see it until you wiped it off then it isn't worth fretting over.

[Brobocop]

All I read was "I wanted a certain grade on this raw card but I wanted to pay raw prices. Now I'm mad I won't be able to get a better grade than I paid for."

I'll say this until I'm no longer a member, you want a certain grade, buy a graded version. Sick of having to examine every single speck of a card these days because people want a graded card without having to pay for it. Really takes the fun out of collecting.

[kcroyalsfan8515]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

OP, you've done nothing wrong...yet.

There will be people coming into this thread to imply you are a horrible person, a picky buyer, and who knows what else. Some may demand your eBay ID so they can block you. Ignore them.

What you've done is purchase a card and ask a question about it. If someone doesn't think that's okay, then I don't think that person's opinion matters much.

Now, as to your question:

Whether or not a return would be "acceptable" by industry standards is dependent on factors you haven't disclosed. How bad is the flaw? What is the seller's return policy? Is it truly not described properly, including via the pictures? We just don't know, so answering your specific questions is problematic.

If what you're looking for is an accepted standard, you may not find it here. I doubt there will be a consensus as to what is acceptable. A general rule of thumb might be to ask yourself a couple of questions and let your own answers guide you.
Are you maybe being too picky?
Do you feel deceived or cheated?
How would you feel if you were the seller? Would you feel upset? Or would you feel like somebody called you on your bullshyt?
Do you feel the seller was dishonest?
Do you still want the card or is the flaw unacceptable?
Would you have bought the card if you were aware of it's true condition?

The rest is up to you.

Do the right thing.

Very well said

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

The real MVP.

Sure, everyone's got an opinion on what's acceptable. Me personally, I'd rather avoid anyone simply buying-to-grade because their expectations are that you're sending them a voucher redeemable for a gold bar, because that's what they've been led to believe.

Myself, I only buy cards that I want for my PC, so I'm not bothered at all if some flipper doesn't come round my way. Our worlds don't collide.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by 1980bust

The real MVP.

Sure, everyone's got an opinion on what's acceptable. Me personally, I'd rather avoid anyone simply buying-to-grade because their expectations are that you're sending them a voucher redeemable for a gold bar, because that's what they've been led to believe.

Myself, I only buy cards that I want for my PC, so I'm not bothered at all if some flipper doesn't come round my way. Our worlds don't collide.

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

Your point about disclosing flaws is completely subjective. OP pointed out seeing a tiny divot AFTER cleaning the card. Now, to OP that is a flaw, to many others in this thread, it's not a flaw. So who's right?

Unless we establish a universal flaw finding and rating system, everyone will have different levels they're happy with. Unless it's a scratch, an auto smudge, or damage that's really obvious, and even then different people will tolerate different stuff.

Sure, there's shady sellers out there, no doubt. But the vast majority aren't, yet gem mining (as you phrase it) is almost everywhere.

Me personally, I hate the whole grading thing, and I hate the effect it's having on everything. So I avoid it - just like OP and everyone else can avoid raw cards if what they're really after is a PSA 10. It's not hard to be honest with yourself what your intentions are - if you want a gem, pay for it. If you want to find a low priced card for the chance it MIGHT gem and net you a massive profit, then that's the gamble you're taking. It's not on raw sellers to guarantee your purchases come back gem after you send them off for grading.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by 1980bust

Your point about disclosing flaws is completely subjective. OP pointed out seeing a tiny divot AFTER cleaning the card. Now, to OP that is a flaw, to many others in this thread, it's not a flaw. So who's right?

Unless we establish a universal flaw finding and rating system, everyone will have different levels they're happy with. Unless it's a scratch, an auto smudge, or damage that's really obvious, and even then different people will tolerate different stuff.

Sure, there's shady sellers out there, no doubt. But the vast majority aren't, yet gem mining (as you phrase it) is almost everywhere.

Me personally, I hate the whole grading thing, and I hate the effect it's having on everything. So I avoid it - just like OP and everyone else can avoid raw cards if what they're really after is a PSA 10. It's not hard to be honest with yourself what your intentions are - if you want a gem, pay for it. If you want to find a low priced card for the chance it MIGHT gem and net you a massive profit, then that's the gamble you're taking. It's not on raw sellers to guarantee your purchases come back gem after you send them off for grading.

I hear you. And I don't disagree, except for the last part. Why do buyers need to gamble? Where else is that the norm? Why can't sellers describe what they're selling?

This concept isn't hard. It's really not. Just be honest. As my husband always says, Don't Be An A$$hole. Be honest. It's not hard.

You don't need to say "this card is a 10" or a 9 or an 8 or whatever. All sellers need to do is point out flaws. Just say "this card has a surface dimple"...or take a pic of the print line....or whatever. Just don't be an a$$hole. Easy peasy, no?

If sellers don't want to do that, or can't be bothered to actually look at their cards, or are too freaking stupid to spot flaws (as if I believe "I am not a pro grader, lol), then they are going to get returns. That is a fact, like it or not. And those returns will not be optional.

Sellers get to decide for themselves, are they going to disclose condition, or are they going to get a lot of returns. That's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I just dislike when sellers choose not to disclose true condition and then whine about returns. Sellers, you get to choose one, not both.

I say this as a seller. Yes, it's true...I sell probably four times as much as I buy on the Bay. The shady sellers out there are taking food off of the tables of honest sellers. I disclose flaws. For sellers that don't, don't expect sympathy from me.

Just do the right thing. It's not hard. Seriously.


Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Why do buyers need to gamble? Where else is that the norm? Why can't sellers describe what they're selling?

The gamble I was referring to was buying a raw card for low $$$, hoping that when you inevitably send it to get graded that it comes back a gem you can sell for high $$$ - not gambling on whether a seller is giving you the card described in the listing or not.

[TSonn]

I don't know the answer but I find myself in the same boat tonight. I've only ever requested a return on a card once but I bought this Mahomes last week on eBay and it is beat up. I know, if I want a mint card, buy a PSA 9 or more. But where is the line in when a seller needs to disclose? Normally I give a pass for minor surface issues because it could be missed when listing, especially if the seller is a volume seller. But when the entire surface is beat? I don't know, hard to miss it and it seems more scammy from the seller - purposely not including condition issues in the listing.





The 2 photos from the listing:

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I hear you. And I don't disagree, except for the last part. Why do buyers need to gamble? Where else is that the norm? Why can't sellers describe what they're selling?

This concept isn't hard. It's really not. Just be honest. As my husband always says, Don't Be An A$$hole. Be honest. It's not hard.

You don't need to say "this card is a 10" or a 9 or an 8 or whatever. All sellers need to do is point out flaws. Just say "this card has a surface dimple"...or take a pic of the print line....or whatever. Just don't be an a$$hole. Easy peasy, no?

If sellers don't want to do that, or can't be bothered to actually look at their cards, or are too freaking stupid to spot flaws (as if I believe "I am not a pro grader, lol), then they are going to get returns. That is a fact, like it or not. And those returns will not be optional.

Sellers get to decide for themselves, are they going to disclose condition, or are they going to get a lot of returns. That's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I just dislike when sellers choose not to disclose true condition and then whine about returns. Sellers, you get to choose one, not both.

I say this as a seller. Yes, it's true...I sell probably four times as much as I buy on the Bay. The shady sellers out there are taking food off of the tables of honest sellers. I disclose flaws. For sellers that don't, don't expect sympathy from me.

Just do the right thing. It's not hard. Seriously.


Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

+1

I have the "I'm not a professional grader blah blah" on my listings, but I do grade, so if anything is less than a 9 in my opinion, I have a "condition" section of my listings where I'll note if it has a surface scratch or whatever. I've advised buyers to not buy from me if they're obviously gem hunting, and had to re-sell plenty of cards at a loss because a seller didn't disclose issues with the condition.

if you're a seller who can't 1) take care of your cards or 2) properly describe your cards, don't get all pissy when people want to return them or at least not pay a premium for your smudgey dinged up crap.

[pingbling23]

You bought a raw card and then altered it. It’s yours now.

[hypostatic]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

You bought a raw card and then altered it. It’s yours now.

Thanks for your contribution. I'm new, but I can tell that you're one of the good guys/gals around here. I didn't alter the card by wiping away lint with a soft tissue and then noticing a pin-dot pit/depression in the center of the card I just pulled out of the dirty penny sleeve.

As I clarified in a follow up post, I was always planning on keeping the card and I plan on buying as many copies that come up for sale of this SSP card because I love the card. I would have bought this card whether the issue was disclosed or not, and I'll have it and all others graded irrespective of defects.

I get that not everyone has the best reading comprehension skills, but if we can try our best to focus on the issue here, we might have had a better discussion on what to do when you feel deceived by a seller who could have disclosed something but hid it under a dirty sleeve.

[FuzzySparkles]

It feels like there are a lot of sellers on here that love to complain about selling on ebay but who just love to take advantage that buyers can't actually look at the card before purchasing.

The argument that there isn't a universal standard seems really weak; if you've noticed a flaw on the card that doesn't show up in your photo (print-line, scratch, dimple) and it is the reason you're not grading it, not disclosing that is an attempt to swindle the buyer and have them pay a higher price for it than it is worth. If the buyer doesn't care, they'll buy the card for that price.

Also, the argument that the buyer should have to ask specific questions about the condition of the card in order to find out the truth from you that you already know is shameful.

Sadly, after reading these threads, it appears to me that card sellers have earned the drastic ebay return policy.

[pingbling23]

Most do not grade. Raw card is a raw card. Pack pulled and the way it was issued. Not all cards are gem mint folks. Stop buying raw cards if you want gem mint.

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by FuzzySparkles

The argument that there isn't a universal standard seems really weak; if you've noticed a flaw on the card that doesn't show up in your photo (print-line, scratch, dimple) and it is the reason you're not grading it, not disclosing that is an attempt to swindle the buyer and have them pay a higher price for it than it is worth. If the buyer doesn't care, they'll buy the card for that price.

Your assumption here is that everybody should be grading every card they have. Which is nonsense. I know I'm not the only one who hates slabbed cards, so I only buy raw and this is why when I decide to sell anything it's raw. I use high-quality pics (usually around 10) in listings anyway, so there's enough for buyers to inspect anyways, along with any condition notes in the listing.

If you think I'm gonna wait 6+ months to grade a card just so I can then sell it to someone who'll probably want to return it because there's a scratch the size of a bee's dick on the case, then you're sadly mistaken.

You think a universal standard is a weak argument because you list some really obvious flaw examples, yet the entire reason for this thread is a tiny divot only visible after cleaning the card by OP, which multiple people have said they wouldn't consider a flaw, while multiple others would. Do you even context?

[cbuskstwar]

What’s your eBay handle?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by FuzzySparkles

It feels like there are a lot of sellers on here that love to complain about selling on ebay but who just love to take advantage that buyers can't actually look at the card before purchasing.

The argument that there isn't a universal standard seems really weak; if you've noticed a flaw on the card that doesn't show up in your photo (print-line, scratch, dimple) and it is the reason you're not grading it, not disclosing that is an attempt to swindle the buyer and have them pay a higher price for it than it is worth. If the buyer doesn't care, they'll buy the card for that price.

Also, the argument that the buyer should have to ask specific questions about the condition of the card in order to find out the truth from you that you already know is shameful.

Sadly, after reading these threads, it appears to me that card sellers have earned the drastic ebay return policy.

Yes.

There are quite a few excellent posts in this thread. This is one of them.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[messier2]

Most of us are sellers here and it's a sore spot for sure. I hate hearing that "beep" on the ebay app and seeing that the buyer initiated a return. HATE seeing that...ruins my day...sorta! lol

So, not going to get any love here for any type of return (legit or not).

[isles4life]

still waiting on that ebay id....

[TSonn]

Related: I know most posters here take the side of the ebay seller, but what do people think about this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-Pan...C/124332071997

"Pristine"
"Gem Mint"

I messaged the seller to ask if they'd accept a return if I subbed to BGS and it didn't get a 10 - they responded by calling me a loser and asked if I was the listing police.

I'm tempted to buy and sub express and see what happens. IMO - sellers deserve all the returns when they do stuff like this. Easily an "item not as described" if I'd sub and not get a 10.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Related: I know most posters here take the side of the ebay seller, but what do people think about this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-Pan...C/124332071997

"Pristine"
"Gem Mint"

I messaged the seller to ask if they'd accept a return if I subbed to BGS and it didn't get a 10 - they responded by calling me a loser and asked if I was the listing police.

I'm tempted to buy and sub express and see what happens. IMO - sellers deserve all the returns when they do stuff like this. Easily an "item not as described" if I'd sub and not get a 10.

plus give it the old "it's not his real sig" with your newly slabbed BGS 9 Auto 10

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by TSonn

Related: I know most posters here take the side of the ebay seller, but what do people think about this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-Pan...C/124332071997

"Pristine"
"Gem Mint"

I messaged the seller to ask if they'd accept a return if I subbed to BGS and it didn't get a 10 - they responded by calling me a loser and asked if I was the listing police.

I'm tempted to buy and sub express and see what happens. IMO - sellers deserve all the returns when they do stuff like this. Easily an "item not as described" if I'd sub and not get a 10.

"Pristine gem mint" also here is a clear photo of the dinged corner. Lol it's right there, I can go ahead and tell you right now it's definitely not a 10. I wish Ebay would take more seriously the fire emoji invest psa 10? Gem mint pristine listings they are gross.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by Justin7

"Pristine gem mint" also here is a clear photo of the dinged corner. Lol it's right there, I can go ahead and tell you right now it's definitely not a 10. I wish Ebay would take more seriously the fire emoji invest psa 10? Gem mint pristine listings they are gross.

Oh man good catch.

[The Finest]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

YES!!! LOL