2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[rman112]

Originally Posted by packman80

Kenny can you explain why you let the WR get behind you for the game winning TD?

Black people are victims of racism we need more equality thank you that is my statement

Hopefully that doesn't happen..

[Clark]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Make your own interpretation.

I don't follow basketball, do you have a link, so I can get more context?

[dodgerfanjohn]

Really disagree with the thoughts regarding over policing minor matters. Using broken windows as the guiding influence William Bratton cleaned up both NYC and LA, making both the safest big cities in the nation.

In LA, I grew up here. I lived in City of LA from 2010-2013, the last three of those in Downtown. Enforcing laws against minor crimes, the homeless population was reduced, the city was cleaner, and it most definitely was safer. Since various propositions and legislation to reduce felonies to misdemeanors and misdemeanors to non crimes, starting in around 2014, crime has increased and the homeless encampments have begun taking back parts of Downtown LA they had been eradicated from over a decade ago.

Failure to enforce low level crime has been a disaster and is helping to drive people out of Downtown LA, which had experienced a massive revival starting at the turn of the century.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Really disagree with the thoughts regarding over policing minor matters. Using broken windows as the guiding influence William Bratton cleaned up both NYC and LA, making both the safest big cities in the nation.

In LA, I grew up here. I lived in City of LA from 2010-2013, the last three of those in Downtown. Enforcing laws against minor crimes, the homeless population was reduced, the city was cleaner, and it most definitely was safer. Since various propositions and legislation to reduce felonies to misdemeanors and misdemeanors to non crimes, starting in around 2014, crime has increased and the homeless encampments have begun taking back parts of Downtown LA they had been eradicated from over a decade ago.

Failure to enforce low level crime has been a disaster and is helping to drive people out of Downtown LA, which had experienced a massive revival starting at the turn of the century.

You let people get away with "minor" property crimes, and it emboldens them to commit more, or start stepping up to violence. Look at auto break ins in San Francisco. A couple years ago SFPD basically said they wouldn't respond to calls regarding auto burglary. Last month there 922 reported, and who knows how many unreported. Theives know there's no consequences, so why stop?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Clark

I don't follow basketball, do you have a link, so I can get more context?

https://www.radio.com/sports/nba/kev...said-to-doncic

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Really disagree with the thoughts regarding over policing minor matters. Using broken windows as the guiding influence William Bratton cleaned up both NYC and LA, making both the safest big cities in the nation.

In LA, I grew up here. I lived in City of LA from 2010-2013, the last three of those in Downtown. Enforcing laws against minor crimes, the homeless population was reduced, the city was cleaner, and it most definitely was safer. Since various propositions and legislation to reduce felonies to misdemeanors and misdemeanors to non crimes, starting in around 2014, crime has increased and the homeless encampments have begun taking back parts of Downtown LA they had been eradicated from over a decade ago.

Failure to enforce low level crime has been a disaster and is helping to drive people out of Downtown LA, which had experienced a massive revival starting at the turn of the century.

I’m assuming the police/community relationship didn’t improve either as has been suggested hypothetically in here too. I’m not a proponent of decriminalizing drugs. Weed sure go for it The victimless crime myth is just that, a myth. Drug dependency contributes to the majority of property crimes with real victims. If drugs are legal and even more common place, you will see crime increase. More injuries from duis, more robberies, more burglaries, etc. A poorer workforce leading to more overdoses and even more strain on our medical facilities. Decriminalizing drugs isn’t good.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

You let people get away with "minor" property crimes, and it emboldens them to commit more, or start stepping up to violence. Look at auto break ins in San Francisco. A couple years ago SFPD basically said they wouldn't respond to calls regarding auto burglary. Last month there 922 reported, and who knows how many unreported. Theives know there's no consequences, so why stop?

I watch a lot of the interviews on YouTube of homeless drug addicts that live in skid row. It’s crazy how many make their living from stealing.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

https://www.radio.com/sports/nba/kev...said-to-doncic

Thanks, it looks like Kenny Smith, Redick, and Love have bought into the racial power argument that BLM and others perpetuate. I have read it numerous times elsewhere, "black people can't be racist", because they don't hold the power in the US/Canada/etc. Theoretically, some of the active members/leaders who lead those narratives, take it even further.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

Really disagree with the thoughts regarding over policing minor matters. Using broken windows as the guiding influence William Bratton cleaned up both NYC and LA, making both the safest big cities in the nation.

In LA, I grew up here. I lived in City of LA from 2010-2013, the last three of those in Downtown. Enforcing laws against minor crimes, the homeless population was reduced, the city was cleaner, and it most definitely was safer. Since various propositions and legislation to reduce felonies to misdemeanors and misdemeanors to non crimes, starting in around 2014, crime has increased and the homeless encampments have begun taking back parts of Downtown LA they had been eradicated from over a decade ago.

Failure to enforce low level crime has been a disaster and is helping to drive people out of Downtown LA, which had experienced a massive revival starting at the turn of the century.

I'd be interested to hear more on this. I'm a believer that a victimless crime isn't a crime. "Victim" can be pretty broad.

Per wikipedia: "The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, loitering, public drinking, jaywalking and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes."

You could make a case that most of those are crimes with a victim, or at worst crimes that cause a major inconvenience to the public. Littering should be punishable by death as far as I'm concerned. Society is the victim for crimes like vandalism and littering. A business owner is the victim of loitering. If I'm in Philly and need gas, I will drive past the gas station with a bunch of people hanging around outside because I don't want anyone bothering me asking me for change while I pump gas. Having a couple grams of weed on you... who is the victim? Prostitution... who is the victim? I've never seen anyone get busted for jaywalking, and I see a lot of jaywalking... I also commit this crime on a daily basis.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

I’m assuming the police/community relationship didn’t improve either as has been suggested hypothetically in here too. I’m not a proponent of decriminalizing drugs. Weed sure go for it The victimless crime myth is just that, a myth. Drug dependency contributes to the majority of property crimes with real victims. If drugs are legal and even more common place, you will see crime increase. More injuries from duis, more robberies, more burglaries, etc. A poorer workforce leading to more overdoses and even more strain on our medical facilities. Decriminalizing drugs isn’t good.

You make a strong argument. I'm not sure if I value security over freedom in this case. And my junkie cousin once broke into my mother's house to steal jewelry and pills (get on my white trash level). I'm inclined to believe in letting people destroy themselves if they want to, but I'm conflicted on just how much help we offer these people in the forms of medical treatment and rehab. I have to think about this one a bit more.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Clark

Thanks, it looks like Kenny Smith, Redick, and Love have bought into the racial power argument that BLM and others perpetuate. I have read it numerous times elsewhere, "black people can't be racist", because they don't hold the power in the US/Canada/etc. Theoretically, some of the active members/leaders who lead those narratives, take it even further.

They can continue to redefine racism to the point that only white people can be racist and every white non-ally is racist. It's laughable at this point, isn't something I take seriously, and is detrimental to black progress. Black academics that I follow don't take this notion seriously either.

[dodgerfanjohn]

San Francisco is a pretty horrific version of the bad that comes when you don’t enforce the low level crimes. We will see if the evacuation from the penninsula continues once Covid is dealt with.

Unfortunately the former Chief and DA there, George Gascon, is now on the verge of being elected DA in LA County. Despite being promoted by Bratton to Assistant Chief when he was with LAPD, he seems hell bent on tossing out every possible quality of life crime.

Most Cuban escapees hate Fidel Castro. Seemingly George Gascon wants to be Castro.

https://www.laadda.com/felons-come-one-come-all/

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

You make a strong argument. I'm not sure if I value security over freedom in this case. And my junkie cousin once broke into my mother's house to steal jewelry and pills (get on my white trash level). I'm inclined to believe in letting people destroy themselves if they want to, but I'm conflicted on just how much help we offer these people in the forms of medical treatment and rehab. I have to think about this one a bit more.

The value of security over freedom. That’s a good one and is really making me think. If addicts were just destroying themselves i would be more open to decriminalizing. But to many times I see it destroying much more.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

They can continue to redefine racism to the point that only white people can be racist and every white non-ally is racist. It's laughable at this point, isn't something I take seriously, and is detrimental to black progress. Black academics that I follow don't take this notion seriously either.

While the current political uprisings is being led by BLM, it involves a lot other groups (aka identity politics) that have joined in because they feel aggrieved by "the system".

If I didn't watch live streams over the last 5 days of people rioting, burning, looting, and killing I might agree that it is laughable. When I examine the demographics, the communication, and the actions, I believe there is something a little bigger going on.

It could eventually fizzle or burn out, but I don't see any indicators currently.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

You and others have eluded to the fact that voting for Trump that it does make you racist among plenty of other things. You may not have said outright, but your comments say else wise

I understand that Trump also aligns with certain single issue (such as female reproductive rights) voters who don't have a racist bone in their body.
I am happy to clarify now:
I do not think voting for Trump means a person is categorically racist.

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

What about all the non white racists? There's plenty of them. They gonna be voting for Trump too?

Are you referring to those guys who spoke at Trump's convention?
One would think so.

Originally Posted by Athey49

But by that logic, Biden also abused a woman. Unless you don't believe Tara Reade. So is it ok to vote for a guy who might have only done it once over a guy who might have done it numerous times? I personally would not vote Biden with one of the reasons being "The other guy sexually abused woman" when Biden allegedly did the same thing.

People can go ahead and vote either way for reasons such as the economy, reproductive rights, etc but to call one of the two a sexual predator and not the other is unfair. And I've said this same thing to my Trump supporter cousin who only brings up the Biden/Reade case and none of the related allegations with Trump.

Fair enough.

I'd also like to salute the majority of the participants here, many of whom I am at odds with, for elevating the discourse in recent days when it easily could have gone straight to hell. Granted, the fear of the mod hammer probably plays a sizable role in ensuring basic civility, but at least as much credit can be fairly assigned to the contributors at this point.
There are clearly some very intelligent people here asking the big questions.
I find that comforting.
Thank you all.

[TheFrenzy]

I take some issue with the term "ally" because alliances are formed between parties for the mutual benefit and protection of all. (The exception being those alliances where one parties forces or coerces the other into joining.)

While the term would make sense under the older understanding of racism and equality ("I am safest when everyone is safe."), it makes absolutely no sense under the newer understanding of racism as something that only certain groups can experience. If I am categorically excluded from ever being able to experience racism, then what could I possibly gain through joining this "alliance"?

(This isn't an anti-equality comment. I'm only pointing out that "ally" is a really bad term given the current framing of the problem.)

[jk1937]

Originally Posted by packman80

Body cams should be law. They will protect the cop and the suspect that way neither side can make crap up on what happened. It can show if either side did something wrong and they should be punished for it.

only problem here, is as we have seen in Atlanta and now Wisconsin, you can have a video and people on one side see it one way and people on the other side see it the exact opposite. body cams will def help but in todays world video is no longer "what happened" unfortunately. its now what "i believe" happened and how "i believe" it should have been handled.

[TheHeel]

Houdini just hit Obama cut in Transcendent case.

[Mac302]

Originally Posted by jk1937

only problem here, is as we have seen in Atlanta and now Wisconsin, you can have a video and people on one side see it one way and people on the other side see it the exact opposite. body cams will def help but in todays world video is no longer "what happened" unfortunately. its now what "i believe" happened and how "i believe" it should have been handled.

The left only cares about the away they feel....not about facts

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

This isn’t a correct take at all.

There’s been well documented police misconduct for a very long time with painstaking efforts to reform.

What’s going on now is the instance of demonstrable misconduct...the George Floyd killing...well the system worked. The cops involved were fired and arrested. In nearly all the other prominent cases, there wasn’t actually illegal acts on the part of the police. Nor was there evidence that the alleged misconduct was race motivated.

Black Lives Matters built itself out of lies in order to promote a corrupt agenda. Their main incidents:

-Trayvon Martin. Literally the entire media And Democrat drive narrative is false. Zimmerman was found not guilty. The Obama appointed Eric Holder’s justice department found nothing to charge Zimmerman with. In fact, the evidence against Zimmerman was so scant that they couldn’t even file a civil lawsuit against him, where the burden of proof is only preponderance of the evidence. And now turns out Zimmerman is suing Martin’s parents. There was zero evidence of racial animus by Zimmerman. Oh and it doesn’t even involve cops.

-Michael Brown. Zero evidence against the cop, no holder led DOJ charges. “Hands up don’t shoot”, still chanted by imbecile white leftists, was entirely fabricated. Literally a leftist fairy tale. It didn’t happen.

-Freddie Gray - aside of most of the officers being minority, there was never anything here. Only minor charges against one of the six officers involved. All the officers filed civil suits against the state for malicious prosecution.

Brehana Taylor - not one bit of evidence of racial intent. Ongoing investigation. Almost certainly a tragic mistake. Likely a problem with no knock warrants, but asking for justice for Taylor is as stupid as asking for justice for a victim in a no fault car accident.

Jacob Blake - This ones just pure ignorance. Let the investigation flesh out. Doesn’t look like any misconduct by officers but still under investigation. People upset about this one need to recognize their miserable ignorance.

In short, can’t be like the Catholic Church situation of the alleged acts didn’t actually occur.

FWIW you can verify the veracity of any of the closed investigation summaries on Wikipedia.

Let me help you with this.
In all of the above cases, imagine those who were killed were White people and that they were all killed in the same manner for the same needless reason. The legal outcomes would be far, far different just in that scenario. Now imagine that in every case, it was Black officers (or a useless vigilante loser in the Zimmerman case) and that they each suffered no consequences for their reckless actions. You'd be taking it to the streets, too.

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

He's 6'5", 310lb. Does he not realize most people aren't as big and strong as him?

Years ago a buddy and I, both in the 230-250 range at the time, tried to handcuff another buddy who was probably 160-170. We couldn't do it. We probably could have if we wanted to hurt him, but we weren't gonna take it that far.

What was the safe word?

[Clark]

Originally Posted by jk1937

only problem here, is as we have seen in Atlanta and now Wisconsin, you can have a video and people on one side see it one way and people on the other side see it the exact opposite. body cams will def help but in todays world video is no longer "what happened" unfortunately. its now what "i believe" happened and how "i believe" it should have been handled.

I have watched and read as high profile events have worked through the justice system. I can't recall one where the complainant has said, "we feel justice has been served and are satisfied with the results".

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I'd be interested to hear more on this. I'm a believer that a victimless crime isn't a crime. "Victim" can be pretty broad.

Per wikipedia: "The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, loitering, public drinking, jaywalking and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes."

You could make a case that most of those are crimes with a victim, or at worst crimes that cause a major inconvenience to the public. Littering should be punishable by death as far as I'm concerned. Society is the victim for crimes like vandalism and littering. A business owner is the victim of loitering. If I'm in Philly and need gas, I will drive past the gas station with a bunch of people hanging around outside because I don't want anyone bothering me asking me for change while I pump gas. Having a couple grams of weed on you... who is the victim? Prostitution... who is the victim? I've never seen anyone get busted for jaywalking, and I see a lot of jaywalking... I also commit this crime on a daily basis.

One of my best friends got a ticket for jaywalking while on his way to the hospital for work as a med student. It was hilarious because he already hates cops. He’s white.

“Victimless” crimes aren’t always victimless as you pointed out. Those are crimes in order to protect the appeal of the location they are happening on. It’s all about property value. If prostitution were suddenly to become legal in my state, and a bunch of prostitutes began propositioning in my neighborhood, my home value would plummet.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Clark

While the current political uprisings is being led by BLM, it involves a lot other groups (aka identity politics) that have joined in because they feel aggrieved by "the system".

If I didn't watch live streams over the last 5 days of people rioting, burning, looting, and killing I might agree that it is laughable. When I examine the demographics, the communication, and the actions, I believe there is something a little bigger going on.

It could eventually fizzle or burn out, but I don't see any indicators currently.

By "laughable at this point," I only meant the notion that only people who wield power over you can be racist. Most of what's going on is far from laughable. I'm concerned that there won't be cities left and by the time I go to buy my dream house on a lake in five years, property values will be astronomical. I'm working on solutions so that city folk don't leave and infiltrate my desired area!

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

By "laughable at this point," I only meant the notion that only people who wield power over you can be racist. Most of what's going on is far from laughable. I'm concerned that there won't be cities left and by the time I go to buy my dream house on a lake in five years, property values will be astronomical. I'm working on solutions so that city folk don't leave and infiltrate my desired area!

This is a real problem that those who are rioting and looting don’t care about. Who in their right mind would choose to live in a city like Minneapolis after this?

[Clark]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

By "laughable at this point," I only meant the notion that only people who wield power over you can be racist. Most of what's going on is far from laughable. I'm concerned that there won't be cities left and by the time I go to buy my dream house on a lake in five years, property values will be astronomical. I'm working on solutions so that city folk don't leave and infiltrate my desired area!

There are a lot of nice small cities and towns in the US! No way I would invest in major democratically run city with the current political division.

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is a real problem that those who are rioting and looting don’t care about. Who in their right mind would choose to live in a city like Minneapolis after this?

That is because those aggreived have no sense of ownership, and it is hard for them to buy in. For me, the civil uprisings, while being lead by BLM, are forming into class divisions.