2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by wood minis

The problem with this hold your nose vote is how emboldened he will be in a second term to further the divisions in the country, at a minimum.

What divisions?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by wood minis

The problem with this hold your nose vote is how emboldened he will be in a second term to further the divisions in the country, at a minimum.

Trump is not dividing the country. This is a false narrative IMHO; the country was extremely well divided before him and will be after him. The election of Trump is certainly a symptom of said division but I will argue that the day Trump took office, he had a 0% chance of uniting anything no matter what he said, what he did.

People here do not want unity. And while Trump is quite the salesman, I think selling the idea is an impossible task.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

What divisions?

I'm in the AFC East. Always have been; and for the first time in my sports watching/caring life, the Patriots stand to suck, and God appears ready to snatch that away from me.

Not cool.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

You can get much of the same policy with any Republican though.

This is only partially true. A lot of republicans would have caved to democratic pressure (and some republican pressure) on much of his policy but Trump does not care, which is certainly one of his big +.

When you look at something I thought to be simple like moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, you wonder how so many presidents before him who have said they WOULD do this, didn't.

Sometimes it takes a guy like Trump.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

This is only partially true. A lot of republicans would have caved to democratic pressure (and some republican pressure) on much of his policy but Trump does not care, which is certainly one of his big +.

When you look at something I thought to be simple like moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, you wonder how so many presidents before him who have said they WOULD do this, didn't.

Sometimes it takes a guy like Trump.

That’s fair.

I’m mainly just talking about things that his administration will be remembered for. Not saying the Israeli embassy won’t be, but that’s small potatoes compared to the stuff I listed. That’s all.

I’d venture to guess a vast portion of the country has no idea about the embassy thing (I had forgotten it until you brought it up).

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by wood minis

The problem with this hold your nose vote is how emboldened he will be in a second term to further the divisions in the country, at a minimum.

This is true as well but the left has radicalized itself so much that you're right, conservatives are choosing between divisiveness or radically left policies. I was a fan of Bloomberg like I stated in the past because I felt he would grab more moderate conservatives. I don't see as much of that from Biden.

[discostu]

I'm getting excited for the new healthcare plan that should be signed any day now.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm in the AFC East. Always have been; and for the first time in my sports watching/caring life, the Patriots stand to suck, and God appears ready to snatch that away from me.

Not cool.

This is true, Brady will always being the wrath to the AFC East.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

This is only partially true. A lot of republicans would have caved to democratic pressure (and some republican pressure) on much of his policy but Trump does not care, which is certainly one of his big +.

When you look at something I thought to be simple like moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, you wonder how so many presidents before him who have said they WOULD do this, didn't.

Sometimes it takes a guy like Trump.

While it's obvious (at least to me) this was just a pure political move to placate the religious cohort of voters, the effect of driving the stake deeper between Israel and Palestine shouldn't be ignored. And now every time the US will try to step in and play peacekeeper between the two anyone can say it's bogus.

I'm not saying I honestly care about any of it - the conflict between the two will realistically never be cured - I'm just calling out the fact that just because Trump did *something* doesn't mean the decision was even a good one.

[wood minis]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Trump is not dividing the country. This is a false narrative IMHO; the country was extremely well divided before him and will be after him. The election of Trump is certainly a symptom of said division but I will argue that the day Trump took office, he had a 0% chance of uniting anything no matter what he said, what he did.

People here do not want unity. And while Trump is quite the salesman, I think selling the idea is an impossible task.

I get that division in the country predates Trump. But as a salesman, he has the platform to at least attempt to promote common ground. I guess he doesn't feel it's worth his time to try as he is more focused on his own interests and those of his friends, and of course those in the country that benefit from his policies.

The fact that the COVID-19 response was politicized is, in a big way, on him. Why getting this pandemic behind us isn't his only focus right now is a problem as the economy recovering doesn't happen until after that.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by mike1498

This is true as well but the left has radicalized itself so much that you're right, conservatives are choosing between divisiveness or radically left policies. I was a fan of Bloomberg like I stated in the past because I felt he would grab more moderate conservatives. I don't see as much of that from Biden.

Biden is not part of the radical left clan.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

That’s fair.

I’m mainly just talking about things that his administration will be remembered for. Not saying the Israeli embassy won’t be, but that’s small potatoes compared to the stuff I listed. That’s all.

I’d venture to guess a vast portion of the country has no idea about the embassy thing (I had forgotten it until you brought it up).

It's difficult to say what he'll be remembered for at this stage because we may very well have 4.5 years left!

I can say only from personal experience that the policy of his administration has benefited be and my family very nicely. I think this is largely true for most Americans and I would love to hear from someone on this forum on what Trump has done that has impacted them negatively from a financial, quality of life point of view.

I know there are no shortage of emotional grievances but I wonder if those that despise him are able to recognize that he's probably improved their financial situation, improved their job prospects, improved their industry etc. I understand there's more to the Presidency than the economy but for me, that is the largest driver of my vote; to ensure that my family has opportunity to a better quality of life.

[TheHeel]

Has anyone posted the full AXIOS interview?

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Biden is not part of the radical left clan.

No he’s not Bernie but he’s definitely farther down the spectrum. Obama was not a moderate by any means

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

It's difficult to say what he'll be remembered for at this stage because we may very well have 4.5 years left!

I can say only from personal experience that the policy of his administration has benefited be and my family very nicely. I think this is largely true for most Americans and I would love to hear from someone on this forum on what Trump has done that has impacted them negatively from a financial, quality of life point of view.

I know there are no shortage of emotional grievances but I wonder if those that despise him are able to recognize that he's probably improved their financial situation, improved their job prospects, improved their industry etc. I understand there's more to the Presidency than the economy but for me, that is the largest driver of my vote; to ensure that my family has opportunity to a better quality of life.

My problem is that everything you listed about the economy, while true on the surface and especially for the near term, has implications for the future that very well could impact your family/children's quality of life.

Trump's desire to artificially pump the numbers to make the stock market look good could very easily come back to bite us and at the very least underscores his hypocrisy. He was first in line to throw stones at Janice Yellen about keeping the interest rates low to bolster Obama's legacy... yet... here we are. The rates are as low as they've ever been and the possibility of devaluing the dollar as much as it could (and might) isn't really a game I'd like to see played. But it's cool, his "legacy" of a "good economy" is what he and others are banking on.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mattglet

I'm not saying I honestly care about any of it - the conflict between the two will realistically never be cured - I'm just calling out the fact that just because Trump did *something* doesn't mean the decision was even a good one.

He stood up for a friend. I work for a company in Israel, my wife and in-laws are from Israel, so I'm likely closer to this than you, or most Americans for that matter.

For no less than 18 months, it was the topic of daily conversation, everywhere in Tel Aviv. I spent those months and years learning just how much something like this mattered to them; it was affirmation that they mattered. So I do understand the "don't care" attitude as an American, living here; but for ~6 million Jews living there, it was something remarkable.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

He stood up for a friend. I work for a company in Israel, my wife and in-laws are from Israel, so I'm likely closer to this than you, or most Americans for that matter.

For no less than 18 months, it was the topic of daily conversation, everywhere in Tel Aviv. I spent those months and years learning just how much something like this mattered to them; it was affirmation that they mattered. So I do understand the "don't care" attitude as an American, living here; but for ~6 million Jews living there, it was something remarkable.

Absolutely, I get that and I honestly am not discounting the significance for the Jews.

But again, to say it was anything but a political ploy - which could put the US in a predicament down the road when it comes to peace talks - is something I wince at.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

It's difficult to say what he'll be remembered for at this stage because we may very well have 4.5 years left!

I can say only from personal experience that the policy of his administration has benefited be and my family very nicely. I think this is largely true for most Americans and I would love to hear from someone on this forum on what Trump has done that has impacted them negatively from a financial, quality of life point of view.

I know there are no shortage of emotional grievances but I wonder if those that despise him are able to recognize that he's probably improved their financial situation, improved their job prospects, improved their industry etc. I understand there's more to the Presidency than the economy but for me, that is the largest driver of my vote; to ensure that my family has opportunity to a better quality of life.

Hahaha yes that is true. 10% chance in my book he has 4.5 more years, but still possible.

I think he elicits such emotional responses from people that a 3% boost on the paycheck (which for the average American isn’t much) doesn’t have as much oooomf.

I can only speak for myself, but from a financial position I’m not better or worse under Trump than I was under Obama. Pretty much still in control of my financial prospects, regardless of the President. But I’ve long argued that the President doesn’t have as much power over the economy as people like to imagine, both positive and negative. That’s just me.

A ton of Americans are still struggling paycheck to paycheck. That’s not a Presidential problem though, so it’s not anything that can be made better or worse from a November election.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by mattglet

My problem is that everything you listed about the economy, while true on the surface and especially for the near term, has implications for the future that very well could impact your family/children's quality of life.

Trump's desire to artificially pump the numbers to make the stock market look good could very easily come back to bite us and at the very least underscores his hypocrisy. He was first in line to throw stones at Janice Yellen about keeping the interest rates low to bolster Obama's legacy... yet... here we are. The rates are as low as they've ever been and the possibility of devaluing the dollar as much as it could (and might) isn't really a game I'd like to see played. But it's cool, his "legacy" of a "good economy" is what he and others are banking on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the Fed not Trump.

The Fed doesn't give a **** what Trump says. They are supposed to remain independent and I have yet to see any signs that they have lost their independence. I'm not saying the Feds course of action is good but it has nothing to do with Trumps mouth.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mattglet

My problem is that everything you listed about the economy, while true on the surface and especially for the near term, has implications for the future that very well could impact your family/children's quality of life.

Trump's desire to artificially pump the numbers to make the stock market look good could very easily come back to bite us and at the very least underscores his hypocrisy. He was first in line to throw stones at Janice Yellen about keeping the interest rates low to bolster Obama's legacy... yet... here we are. The rates are as low as they've ever been and the possibility of devaluing the dollar as much as it could (and might) isn't really a game I'd like to see played. But it's cool, his "legacy" of a "good economy" is what he and others are banking on.

"were" banking on. I know that in February, unemployment was at record lows for all demographics; most everyone that wanted a job, had a job and that wages were rising for lower income jobs at much higher rate than others. By any stretch of the imagination, the economy was good if not great. Was it propped up by this and that, absolutely. Most economies are. But it was strong. In this aspect, he delivered.

And he is an absolute hypocrite. There's a tweet for everything.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Hahaha yes that is true. 10% chance in my book he has 4.5 more years, but still possible.

I think he elicits such emotional responses from people that a 3% boost on the paycheck (which for the average American isn’t much) doesn’t have as much oooomf.

I can only speak for myself, but from a financial position I’m not better or worse under Trump than I was under Obama. Pretty much still in control of my financial prospects, regardless of the President. But I’ve long argued that the President doesn’t have as much power over the economy as people like to imagine, both positive and negative. That’s just me.

A ton of Americans are still struggling paycheck to paycheck. That’s not a Presidential problem though, so it’s not anything that can be made better or worse from a November election.

Yes, it's the emotion that people hold on to. Look no further than this very real NH poll that I've posted in here a few times. 2/3 of the Democratic party would rather the Earth be destroyed than have Trump win election. It's this kind of poll that makes you truly understand how much of a hold this single individual has on the minds of many people AND how much of an impossibility uniting the country has become. I recognize that some people answered this question not really considering the answers, but some absolutely did.

You can't rationalize with someone like this. It's simply not possible.

[Locoduck]

Read the books, read the manuals...

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by mike1498

No he’s not Bernie but he’s definitely farther down the spectrum. Obama was not a moderate by any means

Not saying this in a negative light, but weren’t you 7-8 (I think I remember your 9/11 statement gathering your age) when Obama was elected?

Obama’s policies were about as moderate as you can get in my eyes. I’d argue that Obama’s policy was right of Trump.

-More deportations
-More geopolitical intervening
-Expansion of systems that spy on the American people

I guess it’s just how one views the terms moderate, left, right, etc...

Again, not a knock on you or your age whatsoever. I’ve got JoJo older than you but he doesn’t have a fraction of your maturity.

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the Fed not Trump.

The Fed doesn't give a **** what Trump says. They are supposed to remain independent and I have yet to see any signs that they have lost their independence. I'm not saying the Feds course of action is good but it has nothing to do with Trumps mouth.

To be fair and fully transparent, yes, that's the Fed and Trump theoretically has no control over them - which I hope in reality is true. Powell was a Trump nomination, and it's no secret about the public comments Trump has lobbed toward Powell, but hey... you never know (I know, I know, that's conspiracy theory talk)

My actual point was the hypocrisy of Trump re: Yellen, and the false sense of security the current "good economy" projects for the short term. The longer term is where we could be/might be/will be(?) in trouble. To sacrifice the long term for the short term is irresponsible.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Yes, it's the emotion that people hold on to. Look no further than this very real NH poll that I've posted in here a few times. 2/3 of the Democratic party would rather the Earth be destroyed than have Trump win election. It's this kind of poll that makes you truly understand how much of a hold this single individual has on the minds of many people AND how much of an impossibility uniting the country has become. I recognize that some people answered this question not really considering the answers, but some absolutely did.

You can't rationalize with someone like this. It's simply not possible.

Don’t disagree, but it appears that this President thrives on that emotion.

He’s very much turned the political arena into the WWE. Not that it wasn’t before, but his promos are very much more Iron Sheik than John Cena or Hulk Hogan. That’s solely on him, and I’m not even knocking his game. The same vitriol he invokes from one side is met with positive rabid fervor from the other.