Question on an '84 Fleer update Puckett

LC34 · 07-13-2020, 08:43 PM

I was given as a gift a GEM grading company '84 Fleer Puckett. Of course its a 10

Now I know the company handed out 10s for every card, and I know they also would grade fakes, reprints etc. How do I tell the authenticity of this card? Its way off center up and down 95/5. The "K" in "did you know is lowercase. Black border doesnt look like any pixels can be seen in a magnify lens.

Any other ways to check? Is it wrong of me to assume this card is a legit card in a bad grading company case?

Also, my first post here but a long time lurker. Thank you all for the info you have shown me through other peoples posts and questions in the past.

EldoEsq · 07-13-2020, 08:44 PM

Pic would help...

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3124508 on COMC · 07-13-2020, 08:49 PM

Most of the GEM and GEM ELITE cards are horrendously trimmed. That would be the primary concern. Jeremy Bachman is still pumping them out of Elkhart, Indiana through IDs gradedstuff and kane04.

LC34 · 07-13-2020, 08:53 PM

Here we go, sorry. Hope they are large enough to see.

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LC34 · 07-13-2020, 08:53 PM

Back

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pewe · 07-13-2020, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC34

Back

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Clearly centering is an important aspect of their grade

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7nohitter · 07-13-2020, 09:11 PM

Those edges are horrendous!

LC34 · 07-13-2020, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Clearly centering is an important aspect of their grade

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I know. I laughed when I saw the Gem Mint 10 after seeing the back, at first I was pretty excited for the card, I had been out of the hobby for many years and got this knowing back in the day it was an expensive card. Ive had it for a few years and I keep thinking of breaking the case and sending it elsewhere for authenticating, but since its a PC card, its a pretty good laugh for me and doesnt matter. Plus I show my wife and tell her never buy cards in this case

PuddleMonkey · 07-13-2020, 11:06 PM

fake.

PuddleMonkey · 07-13-2020, 11:18 PM

discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 01:36 AM

That is a common print error I believe on many real Puckett's. The bad edges are a good thing for it being real. The real cards are known for being cut badly. The reprints were typically cut with razor blades and have sharp edges. The thing that has me questioning the card is the print quality. I look at the red stitching on the uniform. Most of the reprints has blurry red like yours and the real ones tend to have crisp stitching. It could also be you took an out of focus picture... I am 50/50 on this.

pewe · 07-14-2020, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Back of card similar print issues:

The “b” in his last name also has that same poor definition in your card and the OP, and “t” in last name same thing... not sure if that is meaningful or not, but same print error in both

Also right and left edges of the bottom blue boxes aren’t straight in yours or his. Both have weird kinks in the same spots.

With that said... I see many / all of those above features in PSA graded cards on eBay... so guess not? Also your print defect pointed out in them

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discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 11:33 AM

You can't just match up that one print mark, it is actually common. You have to match them all for that particular reprint you listed. Made a post with this image before.

I compared a "real" card someone posted on ebay to a known reprint for the above image. That many print defects don't show up on the same card. Here is a way I can usually tell quickly. It is by the jersey. Again though, if the image is out of focus with a camera it can't be a dead give away either.

GatorPie · 07-14-2020, 03:15 PM

Why would you make a fake card that off center?

discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Why would you make a fake card that off center?

It is probably real, there wouldn't be a reason for that. That far off center wouldn't grade well anyways, plus those edges. That is what a typical real Puckett looks like. If I got a in focus image of the jersey that would make me about 90% sure it was real. To be absolutely sure though you need a magnifying glass to look at the logo for dot patterns. If someone asked me if it was real or fake right now and I had to give an answer, I am leaning towards real.

Onions · 07-14-2020, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

It is probably real, there wouldn't be a reason for that. That far off center wouldn't grade well anyways, plus those edges. That is what a typical real Puckett looks like. If I got a in focus image of the jersey that would make me about 90% sure it was real. To be absolutely sure though you need a magnifying glass to look at the logo for dot patterns. If someone asked me if it was real or fake right now and I had to give an answer, I am leaning towards real.

Agreed.

LC34 · 07-14-2020, 05:15 PM

Thanks guys. I often thought the same thing about the horrendous off center made me think it might be real. What am I looking for in a real card with the jersey? When you talk about the red lettering. I can try to send a better picture of the jersey if you'd like.

Again thanks everyone for the help. It stinks that any of us have to doubt our hobby but, I guess this shows how anytime there's money to be had, people will try to sneak it out of honest people.

discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC34

Thanks guys. I often thought the same thing about the horrendous off center made me think it might be real. What am I looking for in a real card with the jersey? When you talk about the red lettering. I can try to send a better picture of the jersey if you'd like.

Again thanks everyone for the help. It stinks that any of us have to doubt our hobby but, I guess this shows how anytime there's money to be had, people will try to sneak it out of honest people.

I posted a picture above what a typical Puckett jersey looks like versus a fake. Try to compare your card versus the two posted. Reprints tend to lose some of the details that can stand out on a normal card.

LC34 · 07-14-2020, 05:50 PM

Ok thanks again everyone. Fake or not it was a gift from someone close who isn't around anymore, so thats enough for me to keep it exactly how it is in my PC.

Maybe someday the kids will crack it after Im gone and find out definitively from a reputable grading company, but until then it stays as a "GEM mint 10" lol

CSprings · 07-14-2020, 06:08 PM

Nice card! My vote would be real, although I'm far from an expert. I'd say keep it and enjoy it.

For comparison here's my front. The edges are a little rough as well. This is with my phone camera so isn't the most focused.

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hxcmilkshake · 07-14-2020, 06:22 PM

Real! But measure it up.

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GatorPie · 07-14-2020, 06:31 PM

Imagine opening up your expensive Fleer Update set and eagerly flipping to the Puckett card.....only to see one hideously off centered like that. It's just awful luck to get one that bad.

discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 06:39 PM

I would say it is real after that last image. The print quality is there, ragged edges are common with the way the real cards were cut, that lower bad centering is common with real Puckett's, and nothing on the back of the card makes me suspicious. If that was a raw card I would buy it on ebay from all that information. However, some reprints of that card are pretty impressive and hard to tell unless you know what you are looking for with a magnifying glass.

Now what is the true grade of that card... Unfortunately to grade that card with PSA it would have an OC qualifier, don't think there is anyway around it. It looks like 90/10 up down centering. They are pretty lenient with grading that card from what I see and I would guess it would be a PSA 8(OC) depending on the edges. Even with that grade I would send it in to PSA. The true number of those cards is estimated to be about 35,000 to 50,000 cards if I remember correctly. Plus the Puckett wasn't the initial card people were after. People got those sets and pulled the Gooden out. Lots of the other cards weren't handled well, like the Puckett and Clemens.

discodanman45 · 07-14-2020, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Imagine opening up your expensive Fleer Update set and eagerly flipping to the Puckett card.....only to see one hideously off centered like that. It's just awful luck to get one that bad.

Not awful luck, the majority of them were like that. They give PSA 10's to that card if it is even close to 40/60 centering. BTW people love to buy that set and even grade the normal cards. I have seen PSA 10 checklists in that set go for $300 and they have rough edges.

GatorPie · 07-14-2020, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Not awful luck, the majority of them were like that. They give PSA 10's to that card if it is even close to 40/60 centering. BTW people love to buy that set and even grade the normal cards. I have seen PSA 10 checklists in that set go for $300 and they have rough edges.

The majority may have been off centered, but not 90/10 off centered. That is a particularly bad example.

07-13-2020, 08:43 PM	#1
LC34 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: MN Posts: 15	Question on an '84 Fleer update Puckett I was given as a gift a GEM grading company '84 Fleer Puckett. Of course its a 10 Now I know the company handed out 10s for every card, and I know they also would grade fakes, reprints etc. How do I tell the authenticity of this card? Its way off center up and down 95/5. The "K" in "did you know is lowercase. Black border doesnt look like any pixels can be seen in a magnify lens. Any other ways to check? Is it wrong of me to assume this card is a legit card in a bad grading company case? Also, my first post here but a long time lurker. Thank you all for the info you have shown me through other peoples posts and questions in the past.

07-13-2020, 08:49 PM	#3
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,482	Most of the GEM and GEM ELITE cards are horrendously trimmed. That would be the primary concern. Jeremy Bachman is still pumping them out of Elkhart, Indiana through IDs gradedstuff and kane04. __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

07-13-2020, 09:11 PM	#7
7nohitter Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central MA Posts: 2,213 7nohitter	Those edges are horrendous! __________________ Working on the 1957 set. Looking for the 2017 Bowman Reproduction ORANGE (#/25) Clayton Kershaw.

07-13-2020, 08:44 PM	#2
EldoEsq Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: UP Upstate NY now! Posts: 1,471 roryladd Eldoesq	Pic would help... Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

07-13-2020, 08:53 PM	#4
LC34 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: MN Posts: 15	Here we go, sorry. Hope they are large enough to see. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

07-13-2020, 08:53 PM	#5
LC34 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: MN Posts: 15	Back Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

07-13-2020, 11:06 PM	#9
PuddleMonkey Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 5,460	fake.

07-13-2020, 11:18 PM	#10
PuddleMonkey Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 5,460

07-14-2020, 01:36 AM	#11
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 10,114 danch27	That is a common print error I believe on many real Puckett's. The bad edges are a good thing for it being real. The real cards are known for being cut badly. The reprints were typically cut with razor blades and have sharp edges. The thing that has me questioning the card is the print quality. I look at the red stitching on the uniform. Most of the reprints has blurry red like yours and the real ones tend to have crisp stitching. It could also be you took an out of focus picture... I am 50/50 on this.

07-14-2020, 11:33 AM	#13
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 10,114 danch27	You can't just match up that one print mark, it is actually common. You have to match them all for that particular reprint you listed. Made a post with this image before. I compared a "real" card someone posted on ebay to a known reprint for the above image. That many print defects don't show up on the same card. Here is a way I can usually tell quickly. It is by the jersey. Again though, if the image is out of focus with a camera it can't be a dead give away either.

07-14-2020, 03:15 PM	#14
GatorPie Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,199	Why would you make a fake card that off center?

07-14-2020, 05:15 PM	#17
LC34 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: MN Posts: 15	Thanks guys. I often thought the same thing about the horrendous off center made me think it might be real. What am I looking for in a real card with the jersey? When you talk about the red lettering. I can try to send a better picture of the jersey if you'd like. Again thanks everyone for the help. It stinks that any of us have to doubt our hobby but, I guess this shows how anytime there's money to be had, people will try to sneak it out of honest people.

07-14-2020, 05:50 PM	#19
LC34 Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: MN Posts: 15	Ok thanks again everyone. Fake or not it was a gift from someone close who isn't around anymore, so thats enough for me to keep it exactly how it is in my PC. Maybe someday the kids will crack it after Im gone and find out definitively from a reputable grading company, but until then it stays as a "GEM mint 10" lol

07-14-2020, 06:08 PM	#20
CSprings Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: MN Posts: 510	Nice card! My vote would be real, although I'm far from an expert. I'd say keep it and enjoy it. For comparison here's my front. The edges are a little rough as well. This is with my phone camera so isn't the most focused. Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

07-14-2020, 06:22 PM	#21
hxcmilkshake Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Apopka FL Posts: 11,703 hxcmilkshake	Real! But measure it up. Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

07-14-2020, 06:31 PM	#22
GatorPie Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,199	Imagine opening up your expensive Fleer Update set and eagerly flipping to the Puckett card.....only to see one hideously off centered like that. It's just awful luck to get one that bad.

07-14-2020, 06:39 PM	#23
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 10,114 danch27	I would say it is real after that last image. The print quality is there, ragged edges are common with the way the real cards were cut, that lower bad centering is common with real Puckett's, and nothing on the back of the card makes me suspicious. If that was a raw card I would buy it on ebay from all that information. However, some reprints of that card are pretty impressive and hard to tell unless you know what you are looking for with a magnifying glass. Now what is the true grade of that card... Unfortunately to grade that card with PSA it would have an OC qualifier, don't think there is anyway around it. It looks like 90/10 up down centering. They are pretty lenient with grading that card from what I see and I would guess it would be a PSA 8(OC) depending on the edges. Even with that grade I would send it in to PSA. The true number of those cards is estimated to be about 35,000 to 50,000 cards if I remember correctly. Plus the Puckett wasn't the initial card people were after. People got those sets and pulled the Gooden out. Lots of the other cards weren't handled well, like the Puckett and Clemens.