Problems with PSA Grading

Jerry25 · 06-09-2020, 01:43 PM

I am having difficulties with PSA and am curious if anyone else has had similar problems. Here are my 2 problems (take into account, I only have 8 PSA graded cards so this represents 25% of the population)

Problem 1)
I have a Michael Jordan PSA 10 Fleer Rookie Serial Number 12463070. When I put it in the registry, a different Michael Jordan PSA 10 Fleer Rookie card shows up in a different PSA case. I have authenticated the card with both Beckett and Heritage Auctions. Both say I have an authentic Jordan and Heritage said it appeared a 10. To fix the error, PSA’s solution is for me to send the card in for review and if it is a registry error, they would break it out and recase with a new serial number. If they found evidence of tampering or irregularity, they could break the card out and regrade or send back to me outside of the case. I recommended a compromise and for them to review. If they determined a registry error, they break out and recase a 10. If they found an error, to send the card in its original case back to me. They would not agree to this. I’ve already missed my window to sell during the documentary and am stuck because I don’t want to assign over my rights to my property. Has anyone had a good experience sending in a card for review; I have only heard negative stories and had experts (including PSA’s own rep) tell me they would not send it in if they were me.

Problem 2)
I have a Dirk SP Authentic Rookie card that is also a PSA 10. I was all excited to buy this card because the serial number is 741 (Dirk’s Jersey in the serial). When I looked at the card closely (not sure how I missed this when I bought it); there is some sort of contaminant on the back of the card. It looks like caramel to me, but I cannot tell for sure. I recently purchased a jeweler’s loupe to examine closer and it can be seen that one of the spots of contaminant has loose card fibers which I think indicates someone tried to clean off the contaminant. I am curious how this card could have gotten a PSA 10. Doesn’t PSA have 3 people review each card. How did each of them miss this? I have read about the class action lawsuit and I wish I had better records on who from eBay I bought this from, but I am curious if I have been defrauded. Has anyone had this same issue. PSAs solution is the product guarantee but again, I have to submit the card with no guarantee that they won’t destroy the case or say they found tampering.

Am I just unlucky (aside from the fact that I have a Michael Jordan Rookie card) or is there something going on here? Again, I don’t have thousands of PSA graded cards, these are literally 2 of 8.

glen87 · 06-09-2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry25

I am having difficulties with PSA and am curious if anyone else has had similar problems. Here are my 2 problems (take into account, I only have 8 PSA graded cards so this represents 25% of the population)

Problem 1)
I have a Michael Jordan PSA 10 Fleer Rookie Serial Number 12463070. When I put it in the registry, a different Michael Jordan PSA 10 Fleer Rookie card shows up in a different PSA case. I have authenticated the card with both Beckett and Heritage Auctions. Both say I have an authentic Jordan and Heritage said it appeared a 10. To fix the error, PSA’s solution is for me to send the card in for review and if it is a registry error, they would break it out and recase with a new serial number. If they found evidence of tampering or irregularity, they could break the card out and regrade or send back to me outside of the case. I recommended a compromise and for them to review. If they determined a registry error, they break out and recase a 10. If they found an error, to send the card in its original case back to me. They would not agree to this. I’ve already missed my window to sell during the documentary and am stuck because I don’t want to assign over my rights to my property. Has anyone had a good experience sending in a card for review; I have only heard negative stories and had experts (including PSA’s own rep) tell me they would not send it in if they were me.

Problem 2)
I have a Dirk SP Authentic Rookie card that is also a PSA 10. I was all excited to buy this card because the serial number is 741 (Dirk’s Jersey in the serial). When I looked at the card closely (not sure how I missed this when I bought it); there is some sort of contaminant on the back of the card. It looks like caramel to me, but I cannot tell for sure. I recently purchased a jeweler’s loupe to examine closer and it can be seen that one of the spots of contaminant has loose card fibers which I think indicates someone tried to clean off the contaminant. I am curious how this card could have gotten a PSA 10. Doesn’t PSA have 3 people review each card. How did each of them miss this? I have read about the class action lawsuit and I wish I had better records on who from eBay I bought this from, but I am curious if I have been defrauded. Has anyone had this same issue. PSAs solution is the product guarantee but again, I have to submit the card with no guarantee that they won’t destroy the case or say they found tampering.

Am I just unlucky (aside from the fact that I have a Michael Jordan Rookie card) or is there something going on here? Again, I don’t have thousands of PSA graded cards, these are literally 2 of 8.

A - you do realize there are fake PSA 10 jordan rookies i hope. has been documented multiple times

here is just one example

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1115710

here is a link to another site where PSA has stated as such.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archiv...td-p/22985341#

B - you were / are really trying to selling this even though you have questions about the authenticity?

LC2nine10 · 06-09-2020, 02:06 PM

This is insanity.

There are plenty of 10's that arent really a 10. That's not what the class action is about.

Did you get a crazy good deal on that jordan?

How was it authenticated by bgs? Like a quick review or whatever thats called? That means less than nothing.

glen87 · 06-09-2020, 02:11 PM

tried to post pic of card in op, but it was HUGE

Jerry25 · 06-09-2020, 02:55 PM

Few answers to questions that were asked:

1) I wanted to sell it before the documentary ended. Everyone has their price and I was hoping to get a nice return by selling then. I was actually planning on buying a Beckett 9.5 (looking for one with 2 ten subs and two 9.5). This card trades at a discount to the PSA 10. I like how Beckett cases better. When I found out the card had the problem with the serial, my efforts switched to authenticating the card. I haven't tried to sell until I have it resolved
2) I am aware of forged Jordan's - I had not heard of it being with multiple versions of the same serial number. Thanks for posting about the one that the case was faked. I had not seen that. I still have not seen one where the Jordan turned out being real and I have authenticated it.
3) On the Class Action - I read up on it and it seemed to be saying PSA is knowingly grading altered cards and giving them reviews. My Dirk seems such an easy example of this is not a 10 (There is easily seen some sort of crud over the card) that I'm having a hard time understanding how that could have passed review.
4) Got the Jordan rookie for $8K (early 2000s - it was comparable of others at the time)
5) Beckett did their cross review for a BGS 10. I knew they wouldn't cross it but they told me they would let me know if it was authentic (Which they stated). At Heritage, I had one of their heads look at it and he gave me his review.

mjohnatgt · 06-09-2020, 03:13 PM

Send them both in for review. The end. Without a PSA review and new serial number assigned, it's tainted goods.
On the Dirk, it's highly likely PSA just missed it. They aren't just corrupt, they're also incompetent.

Jerry25 · 06-09-2020, 05:27 PM

mjohnatgt - I just can't send them in for review to these guys. They have a financial incentive to say there was tampering or a problem so their guarantee doesn't come into play. They are no longer non biased on either of these. Their own customer service rep told me if he was in my position, he wouldn't send it. How am I supposed to get confidence from that? I'm really hoping someone can give me a positive story or even better - a different solution that has worked for them.

Springerj23 · 06-09-2020, 05:49 PM

I see some things I like and I don’t like about the Jordan. That makes me nervous.

GatorPie · 06-09-2020, 06:05 PM

Anyone have any theories how PSA could give two Jordan 10's the same serial number? It doesn't seem like it would be possible. Here's the "other" Jordan:

whynotme012 · 06-09-2020, 06:18 PM

GL and wish you the best on getting this issue on Jordan resolved.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GatorPie · 06-09-2020, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

I see some things I like and I don’t like about the Jordan. That makes me nervous.

Forget the card for a second. Could it be a fake case? That would be more impressive than faking the card.

mjohnatgt · 06-09-2020, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Forget the card for a second. Could it be a fake case? That would be more impressive than faking the card.

There were a lot of backdoored/fake/resealed cases. Look up WIWAG and Mexican fakes. And others reported people making fake flips and attaching them outside the label, so maybe the card is real, but actually only a PSA 8. Owner copies the PSA 10 flip and pastes it on top of the slab and hopes the buyer doesn't notice, since the flip checks out (before there were images).

If the card is counterfeit in a fake slab, it would be illegal to sell it as a PSA 10, OP. If it's a real PSA 10, PSA gives it a new cert number and reslabs it. I don't see the downside.

But yes, PSA has made mistakes of giving duplicate cert numbers out. Heck, they're even pleading to the judge they're incompetent in the class action lawsuit...

Jerry25 · 06-09-2020, 06:55 PM

Biggest downside for me would be that I have a card that PSA graded as a 10 and then determined that it no longer should be a 10. Their guarantee would cover me and PSA would owe compensating me, unless PSA claimed there was tampering or some other thing that disqualifies. I really don't like the idea of them having the ability to determine if there was tampering. I would rather it be an independent third party instead of a conflicted party. I understand that it's illegal to sell as a PSA 10 if it is not, but I am also giving up my evidence and rights to PSA if I submit for review.

mjohnatgt · 06-09-2020, 07:02 PM

Then I don't know what resolution you actually have a shot of achieving.

kcroyalsfan8515 · 06-09-2020, 07:04 PM

Man... Grading is something sometimes

GatorPie · 06-09-2020, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry25

Biggest downside for me would be that I have a card that PSA graded as a 10 and then determined that it no longer should be a 10. Their guarantee would cover me and PSA would owe compensating me, unless PSA claimed there was tampering or some other thing that disqualifies. I really don't like the idea of them having the ability to determine if there was tampering. I would rather it be an independent third party instead of a conflicted party. I understand that it's illegal to sell as a PSA 10 if it is not, but I am also giving up my evidence and rights to PSA if I submit for review.

I really don't see what choice you have if you ever want to sell it for anywhere near market value. How could an independent party conclusively state it was tampered with? It would have to be from the company that actually cased the card.

Send it in (or perhaps fly it in personally).

rawkstar2k · 06-09-2020, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Anyone have any theories how PSA could give two Jordan 10's the same serial number? It doesn't seem like it would be possible. Here's the "other" Jordan:

So the other PSA 10 Jordan with the same serial number has a new hologram/case? I wonder if it was recently graded or just recased? That’s very interesting since you say you purchased yours in the early 2000s. Can PSA tell you if that other one was a recase?

Did you purchase it on eBay? Is there any way you can find out who you bought it from originally? If you can find them, that could help a lot.

mjohnatgt · 06-09-2020, 08:25 PM

Definitely reslabbed on the other one. They only went to the hologram label 5 years ago and changed to the lighthouse label about two years ago.

rawkstar2k · 06-09-2020, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Definitely reslabbed on the other one. They only went to the hologram label 5 years ago and changed to the lighthouse label about two years ago.

How can someone know if it was reslabbed or newly graded? Only PSA would be able to say for sure or the owner of that new slab. If it was newly graded, what would be the odds that they would assign it the same serial number as the OPs card, especially since the OP said he purchased it in the early 2000s?

Rucchin · 06-09-2020, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawkstar2k

How can someone know if it was reslabbed or newly graded? Only PSA would be able to say for sure or the owner of that new slab. If it was newly graded, what would be the odds that they would assign it the same serial number as the OPs card, especially since the OP said he purchased it in the early 2000s?

I think the assumption that it was reslabbed is based on the serial number. They normally wouldn’t give a new grade that low a serial number.

Looks like one of these cards/slabs might be a fake? And they just reslabbed this one...

regularp · 06-09-2020, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawkstar2k

How can someone know if it was reslabbed or newly graded? Only PSA would be able to say for sure or the owner of that new slab. If it was newly graded, what would be the odds that they would assign it the same serial number as the OPs card, especially since the OP said he purchased it in the early 2000s?

That's an older serial number so it was definitely recased.

mjohnatgt · 06-09-2020, 08:56 PM

Yeah, they have a sort of pattern with their cert numbers. The ones with the hologram label are numbered around 23 million and up. Only ones that were reslabbed during that time would have a number starting with 12 million.

Cavaliercards · 06-09-2020, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry25

mjohnatgt - I just can't send them in for review to these guys. They have a financial incentive to say there was tampering or a problem so their guarantee doesn't come into play. They are no longer non biased on either of these. Their own customer service rep told me if he was in my position, he wouldn't send it. How am I supposed to get confidence from that? I'm really hoping someone can give me a positive story or even better - a different solution that has worked for them.

I am very surprised about customer service saying that.

I also dont like this

If they found an error, to send the card in its original case back to me.

Makes me think if PSA says nope that is tampered or fake you still want it back in the PSA 10 case as is.

I would not be comfortable if that MJ was brought in our shop and offered to us.

glen87 · 06-09-2020, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry25

Biggest downside for me would be that I have a card that PSA graded as a 10 and then determined that it no longer should be a 10. Their guarantee would cover me and PSA would owe compensating me, unless PSA claimed there was tampering or some other thing that disqualifies. I really don't like the idea of them having the ability to determine if there was tampering. I would rather it be an independent third party instead of a conflicted party. I understand that it's illegal to sell as a PSA 10 if it is not, but I am also giving up my evidence and rights to PSA if I submit for review.

unfortunately that is no where near the biggest downside. as mentioned multiple times, that could be a completely fake PSA case and a counterfeit card in it.

RogerGodahell · 06-09-2020, 10:16 PM

Id probably try to make an appointment and fly to PSA and meet them in person and see what they say. I'm not sure if they would or not. That's a terrible situation. Can you post some high resolution photos of the front and back along with the label. There's some experts on here that could probably give you a good idea.

06-09-2020, 02:11 PM	#4
glen87 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: VERMONT Posts: 73,048 glen87 glen87	tried to post pic of card in op, but it was HUGE __________________ collecting James Madison University players of all sports JMU cards: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jmucards/ other cards: https://www.flickr.com/photos/glen87/albums

06-09-2020, 06:18 PM	#10
whynotme012 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,955	Problems with PSA Grading GL and wish you the best on getting this issue on Jordan resolved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-09-2020, 02:06 PM	#3
LC2nine10 Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Fayetteville Posts: 2,835	This is insanity. There are plenty of 10's that arent really a 10. That's not what the class action is about. Did you get a crazy good deal on that jordan? How was it authenticated by bgs? Like a quick review or whatever thats called? That means less than nothing.

06-09-2020, 02:55 PM	#5
Jerry25 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 14	Few answers to questions that were asked: 1) I wanted to sell it before the documentary ended. Everyone has their price and I was hoping to get a nice return by selling then. I was actually planning on buying a Beckett 9.5 (looking for one with 2 ten subs and two 9.5). This card trades at a discount to the PSA 10. I like how Beckett cases better. When I found out the card had the problem with the serial, my efforts switched to authenticating the card. I haven't tried to sell until I have it resolved 2) I am aware of forged Jordan's - I had not heard of it being with multiple versions of the same serial number. Thanks for posting about the one that the case was faked. I had not seen that. I still have not seen one where the Jordan turned out being real and I have authenticated it. 3) On the Class Action - I read up on it and it seemed to be saying PSA is knowingly grading altered cards and giving them reviews. My Dirk seems such an easy example of this is not a 10 (There is easily seen some sort of crud over the card) that I'm having a hard time understanding how that could have passed review. 4) Got the Jordan rookie for $8K (early 2000s - it was comparable of others at the time) 5) Beckett did their cross review for a BGS 10. I knew they wouldn't cross it but they told me they would let me know if it was authentic (Which they stated). At Heritage, I had one of their heads look at it and he gave me his review.

06-09-2020, 03:13 PM	#6
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,594 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Send them both in for review. The end. Without a PSA review and new serial number assigned, it's tainted goods. On the Dirk, it's highly likely PSA just missed it. They aren't just corrupt, they're also incompetent.

06-09-2020, 05:27 PM	#7
Jerry25 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 14	mjohnatgt - I just can't send them in for review to these guys. They have a financial incentive to say there was tampering or a problem so their guarantee doesn't come into play. They are no longer non biased on either of these. Their own customer service rep told me if he was in my position, he wouldn't send it. How am I supposed to get confidence from that? I'm really hoping someone can give me a positive story or even better - a different solution that has worked for them.

06-09-2020, 05:49 PM	#8
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	I see some things I like and I don’t like about the Jordan. That makes me nervous.

06-09-2020, 06:05 PM	#9
GatorPie Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,199	Anyone have any theories how PSA could give two Jordan 10's the same serial number? It doesn't seem like it would be possible. Here's the "other" Jordan:

06-09-2020, 06:55 PM	#13
Jerry25 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 14	Biggest downside for me would be that I have a card that PSA graded as a 10 and then determined that it no longer should be a 10. Their guarantee would cover me and PSA would owe compensating me, unless PSA claimed there was tampering or some other thing that disqualifies. I really don't like the idea of them having the ability to determine if there was tampering. I would rather it be an independent third party instead of a conflicted party. I understand that it's illegal to sell as a PSA 10 if it is not, but I am also giving up my evidence and rights to PSA if I submit for review.

06-09-2020, 07:02 PM	#14
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,594 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Then I don't know what resolution you actually have a shot of achieving.

06-09-2020, 07:04 PM	#15
kcroyalsfan8515 Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 1,496	Man... Grading is something sometimes

06-09-2020, 08:25 PM	#18
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,594 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Definitely reslabbed on the other one. They only went to the hologram label 5 years ago and changed to the lighthouse label about two years ago.

06-09-2020, 08:56 PM	#22
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,594 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Yeah, they have a sort of pattern with their cert numbers. The ones with the hologram label are numbered around 23 million and up. Only ones that were reslabbed during that time would have a number starting with 12 million.

06-09-2020, 10:16 PM	#25
RogerGodahell Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cardboard Enthusiast Posts: 20,783 RogerGodahell	Id probably try to make an appointment and fly to PSA and meet them in person and see what they say. I'm not sure if they would or not. That's a terrible situation. Can you post some high resolution photos of the front and back along with the label. There's some experts on here that could probably give you a good idea.