Shane Baz Is the PTBNL in the Chris Archer Trade!

[texmcpherson]

Pirates ship off Gerrit Cole, he has an incredible season.

Then continue to give up the farm for Archer (who has fallen of tremendously) and Glasnow has killed it in TB so far.

[jeff24k]

Originally Posted by ALBASKETBALL

Reminds me of Indians trading Pomeranz and White for Ubaldo Jimenez

Seemed the Indians were fleeced at the time but both teams ended up getting a pile of poop

Pomeranz did turn it around once leaving the Rockies organization

Archer is a MUCH better pitcher

Really nice comparison. Also could bring up the Hamels trade to the Rangers. Jake Thompson (the big get from the pitching side) and Alec Asher turned out to be duds. Eickhoff had a nice year last year but I don't think anyone considers him anything more than a #4 starter. Alfaro and Nick Williams have some value but not nearly as much as most people thought when the trade went down. Granted Hamels didn't put the Rangers over the top like they had hoped but the trade turned out okay despite giving up 5 average or better prospects.

I like Baz but the odds of him ever becoming even an average starter in this league are likely less than 50% (maybe 30%)? High school pitchers just don't pan out that often.

[Hollywood42]

Archer is out for the season https://twitter.com/Pirates/status/1268181180081463296

What an awful trade for the Pirates, keeps getting worse and worse

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Archer is out for the season https://twitter.com/Pirates/status/1268181180081463296

What an awful trade for the Pirates, keeps getting worse and worse

Sad for Archer. That’s not a surgery many have come back from.

[Flamethrower]

I totally know what it means but asking for a friend, what's PTBNL?

[Snacker]

Player To Be Named Later

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by Flamethrower

I totally know what it means but asking for a friend, what's PTBNL?

Player to be named later

[Clemaz]

This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Cliffroach

Pirates fans can’t make up their minds. They want the front office to make big moves and then when they do, they complain about it. But they do that about everything Pirates related, so I guess they are consistent.

I know this is old, and I know the trade imploded, but I agree with this. The move was the type of move the fanbase had screamed for the team to make for years. I always warned them this was a potential outcome but all I ever heard was about prospect hoarding and cheapness.

Well, they went “all in” and people lost their minds.

I am a huge fan, but discussing the team with the fanbase is impossible due to the absolute level of hatred at the FO, some of which is justified but a lot that simply ignores the reality of the baseball financial system.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by Clemaz

This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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I mean, it is...but at the time isn’t it the exact type of move the fanbase had wanted for years?

Remember, this is the fanbase that wanted to trade starling marte for hunter pence or Justin upton?

[LVDan]

The fact that Baz alone is probably more valuable than Archer right now has gotta be painful. Potential perennial all stars Meadows and Glasnow are just throw ins.


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[somethingclever]

What a bummer.....just saw the Archer news. I personally thought he was going to be great for the Pirates. So glad NH is gone, but due to this trade he will never be forgotten.


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[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by somethingclever

What a bummer.....just saw the Archer news. I personally thought he was going to be great for the Pirates. So glad NH is gone, but due to this trade he will never be forgotten.


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I mean, he did essentially resurrect the franchise from the dead..

[somethingclever]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I mean, he did essentially resurrect the franchise from the dead..

He did, but he will probably be remembered for the Archer Trade, at least for the near future. I also think he overstayed, perhaps if he had fired in 2017 he would have been a folk hero. Although that would have erased the trade of McCutchen for Reynolds and I think that was a good one.


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[pskell02]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

I know this is old, and I know the trade imploded, but I agree with this. The move was the type of move the fanbase had screamed for the team to make for years. I always warned them this was a potential outcome but all I ever heard was about prospect hoarding and cheapness.

Well, they went “all in” and people lost their minds.

I am a huge fan, but discussing the team with the fanbase is impossible due to the absolute level of hatred at the FO, some of which is justified but a lot that simply ignores the reality of the baseball financial system.

I was a vocal proponent of adding to those teams that were going to the playoffs in the early '10s. The Archer deal was a terrible deal from the get-go. Sending Tampa 2 highly regarded guys with virtually no MLB time, or in Glasnow's case, getting dicked around for 2 seasons before being traded. Then add in Baz and you have a complete mess of a trade.

Wanting a big trade to happen to help the club usually doesn't include trading for a visibly declining pitcher...

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by Clemaz

This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.

[pskell02]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.

Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.

[LVDan]

Both Meadows and Glasnow look to be All-Star level performers health willing every year until arb eligible as well so it will just get worse from here. If Baz develops they’ll write folk songs about this deal.


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[somethingclever]

Originally Posted by pskell02

Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.

I have wondered if the FO thought since they made out so well on the Dickerson trade They thought they could rob TB again.


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[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.

This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by pskell02

Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.

When it comes to the Pirates, your definition of "competitive" must be a lot different than mine.

Or Webster's.

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.

I agree. It is tiresome. Because it is true.

The last player to get into the Hall of Fame as a Pirates player retired in 1972. Unless Dave Parker gets in, there may never be another. That's just sad.

The Pirates have had three winning seasons over the past 28 seasons. If that's not "disastourous" I don't know what is.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

I agree. It is tiresome. Because it is true.

The last player to get into the Hall of Fame as a Pirates player retired in 1972. Unless Dave Parker gets in, there may never be another. That's just sad.

The Pirates have had three winning seasons over the past 28 seasons. If that's not "disastourous" I don't know what is.

What does what happened in 1995 have to do with bob nutting and Neal huntington?

We know, nutting is the devil. I’m not going any further with this argument because I’m sick of dealing with this segment of the fanbase.

[Alvarez09]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

When it comes to the Pirates, your definition of "competitive" must be a lot different than mine.

Or Webster's.

They were competitive for a pretty large chunk of the last decade? What are you talking about? Three playoff seasons, Four winning seasons, and every year from 2011 till like 2018 they had at least some hopes of making a playoffs push through at least the end of July.

[somethingclever]

Originally Posted by Alvarez09

This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.

The Cutch trade is an excellent example of how it can work. Signing Cutch to a long term contract was not in the best interest of the team.


I would argue that the Cole trade was also ok, maybe we could have done better, but Cole needed to be traded.

I’m also confused as to why the Marte trade is already being condemned.


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