2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[GOWIFB]

Originally Posted by majestik101

I don't believe that the virus is the worst thing ever, I mean it's horrible, but most data I am seeing is that it largely affects the elderly and people with underlying conditions. I'm sure it's been posted before but the goal was to straighten the curve and not overwhelm the hospitals. Both of those things happened and yet here we are in California still in quarantine some 70 days since the official lockdown. Speaking of...

The lockdown in response to the virus was what did in the economy. And that is the worst thing ever. It's absolutely no coincidence that the blossoming economy and low unemployment numbers the country witnessed in February put the fear of God in Democrats. So when the virus finally hit, the blue state elected leaders went so far as to conspire to shut down their states and businesses just long enough to make Trump and his administration the bad guy. Basically all governors and mayors who did not buy in to Trumps policies did all they could to sabotage the economy and create an ugly stain on Trump's economic record, and by extension create distrust in the minds of Americans hoping that it will affect the November election.

So in essence they (and by and large the media) created a mass hysteria that they hoped will stick in voter's minds.

Sadly (for them) I don't think their gamble will work. It will blow over. The economy will bounce back.

As for the looting and ANTIFA presence in the streets (and yes, it is ANTIFA and similarly financially backed extremist groups), well my belief is that the anarchy occurring in the streets is the left-wings next ace in the hole. The narrative is no longer about Mr. Floyd. The narrative is how long until Trump finally says enough is enough and invokes the Insurrection Act of 1807.

It is disturbing to say the least. But there is no limit to what the left will do to regain control.

You really think the Democratic mayors and governors conspired to shut down the economy in order to stick it to Trump? What about other parts of the world that also had lockdowns, were they in on it to? Also there were states run by Republicans that also had lockdowns as well. Now obviously not all of them did. But also keep in mind that those areas most at risk of spreading the virus are those that have a higher population density, and those tend to have Democratic leaders. States with more rural areas tend to vote Republican and those states weren't at as much risk of spreading the virus so that is why they either didn't have lockdowns or they were more limited.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by rman112

I googled the Insurrection Act.



The two recent articles that came up were; 1. 'Can Trump legally deploy US troops to US cities?', and 2. 'Donald Trump is Trying to Start a Race War'. Lol

Not sure if you actually used Google or just as an expression but I highly recommend DuckDuckGo.

https://duckduckgo.com/?va=z&t=hk

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Not sure if you actually used Google or just as an expression but I highly recommend DuckDuckGo.

https://duckduckgo.com/?va=z&t=hk

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

No, I was being literal. Maybe I'll give that a shot next time. Thanks.

[rman112]

We all need to pour one out for gobullz1. Guy gets banned right before a racially-charged event becomes the talk of the country. What are the freaking chances?

[ilovethelakings]

Originally Posted by GOWIFB

You really think the Democratic mayors and governors conspired to shut down the economy in order to stick it to Trump? What about other parts of the world that also had lockdowns, were they in on it to? Also there were states run by Republicans that also had lockdowns as well. Now obviously not all of them did. But also keep in mind that those areas most at risk of spreading the virus are those that have a higher population density, and those tend to have Democratic leaders. States with more rural areas tend to vote Republican and those states weren't at as much risk of spreading the virus so that is why they either didn't have lockdowns or they were more limited.

I will just say this. When the Western States Pact includes only states that are governed by Democrats, it doesn't really feel that far fetched. I am not saying it's true, but it does seem mighty odd.

[jlzinck]

Man there are some people in this thread whose sanity I am really questioning

[mattglet]

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Man there are some people in this thread whose sanity I am really questioning

Is this your first time here?

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Is this your first time here?

Morning laugh.
Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Is this your first time here?

Just checking in this morning and it appears Majestik went full AB last night.

Neat.

[Boo]

DOW about to hit 26k, once the riots stop Trump might gain momentum.

[Pearce77]

Nice to see my fellow Iowans showed Steve King the door yesterday. Bet he did Nazi that coming.

[jlzinck]

SO much whitesplaining going around on Social Media

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by ilovethelakings

I will just say this. When the Western States Pact includes only states that are governed by Democrats, it doesn't really feel that far fetched. I am not saying it's true, but it does seem mighty odd.

You do realize the basically the ENTIRE planet went into lockdown right?

[trixstar]

God what a terrible look for the CDC

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/u...ronavirus.html

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by trixstar

God what a terrible look for the CDC

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/u...ronavirus.html

Asks me to login. I hate these links.

[Siberian13]

So nothing exciting last night except people robbing a train in Chicago? No twitter links

[trixstar]

Sorry

WASHINGTON — Americans returning from China landed at U.S. airports by the thousands in early February, potential carriers of a deadly virus who had been diverted to a handful of cities for screening by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Their arrival prompted a frantic scramble by local and state officials to press the travelers to self-quarantine, and to monitor whether anyone fell ill. It was one of the earliest tests of whether the public health system in the United States could contain the contagion.

But the effort was frustrated as the C.D.C.’s decades-old notification system delivered information collected at the airports that was riddled with duplicative records, bad phone numbers and incomplete addresses. For weeks, officials tried to track passengers using lists sent by the C.D.C., scouring information about each flight in separate spreadsheets.

“It was insane,” said Dr. Sharon Balter, a director at the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. When the system went offline in mid-February, briefly halting the flow of passenger data, local officials listened in disbelief on a conference call as the C.D.C. responded to the possibility that infected travelers might slip away.

“Just let them go,” two of the health officials recall being told.

The flawed effort was an early revelation for some health departments, whose confidence in the C.D.C. was shaken as it confronted the most urgent public health emergency in its 74-year history — a pathogen that has penetrated much of the nation, killing more than 100,000 people.

The C.D.C., long considered the world’s premier health agency, made early testing mistakes that contributed to a cascade of problems that persist today as the country tries to reopen. It failed to provide timely counts of infections and deaths, hindered by aging technology and a fractured public health reporting system. And it hesitated in absorbing the lessons of other countries, including the perils of silent carriers spreading the infection.

The agency struggled to calibrate its own imperative to be cautious and the need to move fast as the coronavirus ravaged the country, according to a review of thousands of emails and interviews with more than 100 state and federal officials, public health experts, C.D.C. employees and medical workers. In communicating to the public, its leadership was barely visible, its stream of guidance was often slow and its messages were sometimes confusing, sowing mistrust.

“They let us down,” said Dr. Stephane Otmezguine, an anesthesiologist who treated coronavirus patients in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Richard Whitley, the top health official in Nevada, wrote to the C.D.C. director about a communication “breakdown” between the states and the agency. Gov. J.B. Pritzker of Illinois lashed out at the agency over testing, saying that the government’s response would “go down in history as a profound failure.”

“The C.D.C. is no longer the reliable go-to place,” said Dr. Ashish Jha, the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

Even as the virus tested the C.D.C.’s capacity to respond, the agency and its director, Dr. Robert R. Redfield, faced unprecedented challenges from President Trump, who repeatedly wished away the pandemic. His efforts to seize the spotlight from the public health agency reflected the broader patterns of his erratic presidency: public condemnations on Twitter, a tendency to dismiss findings from scientists, inconsistent policy or decision-making and a suspicion that the “deep state” inside the government is working to force him out of office.

Mr. Trump and his top aides have grown increasingly bitter about perceived leaks from the C.D.C. they say were designed to embarrass the president and to build support for decisions that ignore broader concerns about the country’s vast social and economic dislocation. At the same time, some at the C.D.C. have bristled at what they see as pressure to bend evidence-based recommendations to help Mr. Trump’s political standing.

Located in Atlanta, the C.D.C. is encharged with protecting the nation against public health threats — from anthrax to obesity — and serving as the unassailable source of information about fighting them. Given its record and resources, the agency might have become the undisputed leader in the global fight against the virus.

Instead, the C.D.C. made missteps that undermined America’s response.

“Here is an agency that has been waiting its entire existence for this moment,” said Dr. Peter Lurie, a former associate commissioner at the Food and Drug Administration who for years worked closely with the C.D.C. “And then they flub it. It is very sad. That is what they were set up to do.”

The agency’s allies say it is just one part of a vast network of state and local health departments, hospitals, government agencies and suppliers that were collectively unprepared for the speed, scope and ferocity of the pandemic. They also point out that lawmakers have long failed to adequately prioritize funding for the kind of crisis the country now faces.

Dr. Amy Ray, an infectious disease specialist in Cleveland, said the C.D.C. did not “get enough credit,” adding, “They are learning at the same time the world is learning, by watching how this disease manifests.”

The agency, which declined repeated requests for interviews with its top officials, said in a statement: “C.D.C. is at the table as part of the larger U.S. government response, providing the best, most current data and scientific understanding we have.”

“It’s important to remember that this is a global emergency — and it’s impacting the entire U.S.,” the agency said. “That means it requires an all-of-government response.”

Not Our Culture to Intervene’
In early March, Dr. Redfield led Mr. Trump on a V.I.P. tour of the high-tech labs at the C.D.C.’s Atlanta headquarters, standing off to the side as the president spoke.

Wearing a red “Make America Great Again” cap, Mr. Trump falsely asserted that “anybody that wants a test can get a test,” claimed he had a “natural ability” for science and noted that he might keep holding campaign rallies even as the virus spread.

“Thank you for your decisive leadership in helping us, you know, put public health first,” Dr. Redfield told the president as they posed for the cameras.

The moment underscored the challenge for the director and his agency. To combat the virus, he would have to manage the mercurial demands of the president who appointed him and the expectations of the career scientists he leads.

The sensibilities could not be more different. At one point that month, administration officials asked the agency to provide feedback on possible logos — including “Make America Healthy Again” — for cloth face masks they hoped to distribute to millions of Americans. The plan fell through, but not before C.D.C. leaders agreed to the request, according to one person familiar with the discussions.

White House aides saw Dr. Redfield, 68, as an ally, but as the coronavirus crisis intensified, his meandering manner in television appearances and congressional hearings irritated a president drawn to big personalities and assertive defenders of his administration.

A former military virologist who specialized in H.I.V., Dr. Redfield was Mr. Trump’s second choice after his first C.D.C. director resigned. He had no experience leading a government agency — though he had been considered for jobs in previous Republican administrations — and often told associates that he was happiest treating patients in Africa or Haiti.

Dr. Robert C. Gallo, who founded the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine with Dr. Redfield in 1996, said he had warned him against taking the C.D.C. post, describing it as “massive public health, lots of politics, lots of pressure.”

While praising his friend as “a terrific, dedicated infectious disease doctor,” Dr. Gallo, who also co-founded the Global Virus Network, said in an interview that Dr. Redfield “can’t do anything communication-wise.” He added, “He’s reticent, never wanting the front of anything — maybe it’s extreme humility.”

The C.D.C., established in the 1940s to control malaria in the South, has the feel of an academic institution. There, experts work “at the speed of science — you take time doing it,” said Dr. Georges C. Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association.

The agency, a division of the Department of Health and Human Services with 11,000 employees, cannot make policy, but it guides federal and state public health systems and advises government leaders.

The C.D.C.’s most fabled experts are the disease detectives of its Epidemic Intelligence Service, rapid responders who investigate outbreaks. But more broadly, according to current and former employees and others who worked closely with the agency, the C.D.C. is risk-averse, perfectionist and ill suited to improvising in a quickly evolving crisis — particularly one that shuts down the country and paralyzes the economy.

“It’s not our culture to intervene,” said Dr. George Schmid, who worked at the agency off and on for nearly four decades. He described it as increasingly bureaucratic, weighed down by “indescribable, burdensome hierarchy.”

The exacting culture shaped its scientists’ ambitions; it also locked some into a fixed way of thinking, former officials said. And it helped produce the C.D.C.’s most consequential failure in the crisis: its inability early on to provide state laboratories around the country with an effective diagnostic test.

The C.D.C. quickly developed a successful test in January designed to be highly precise, but it was more complicated to use and turned out to be no better than versions produced overseas. And in manufacturing test kits to send to the states, the C.D.C. contaminated many of them through sloppy lab practices. That, along with the administration’s failure to quickly ramp up commercial and academic labs, delayed the rollout of tests and limited their availability for months.

In late January, the agency sent epidemiologists to Seattle to help local health officials learn whether what was then the country’s first known patient — a 35-year-old man who had visited Wuhan, China — had infected others.

After an initial round of tests, the agency imposed restrictive testing standards. When doctors in Washington State and elsewhere forwarded the names of about 650 people in January who might have been infected — they had contact with a confirmed patient, had been admitted to a hospital or had other risk factors — the C.D.C. agreed to test only 256. That group consisted primarily of people traveling from Wuhan and their contacts.

In part because of capacity issues, the agency typically did not recommend testing people without symptoms — even though Chinese doctors were reporting that people could spread the virus without ever feeling ill. Dr. Redfield mentioned the possibility of asymptomatic spread in a CNN interview in February, but the C.D.C. did not emphasize such transmission until late March.

In mid-February, C.D.C. officials announced plans for a national surveillance effort — by testing samples from people with flulike symptoms — to determine whether the virus was spreading undetected. The effort was to begin in Seattle, New York and three other cities, but after disagreements over how to proceed, it did not start.

Later that month, public health officials across the country were increasingly concerned about visitors streaming into the United States from South Korea, Japan, Italy and other European countries engulfed by the virus.

On phone calls with the C.D.C., worried state officials kept asking: “Are there plans to expand the travel monitoring?” The response, according to a participant from New York, was always the same: “We’re still actively considering that.”

Mr. Trump announced a European travel ban on March 11, a few days after meeting with Dr. Redfield and others. But it was too late. Genomic tracing would later show that European travelers had brought the virus into New York as early as mid-February; it multiplied there and elsewhere in the country. In Seattle, a strain from China had struck nursing homes in late February.


“If we were able to test early, we would have recognized earlier” the scale of the outbreak, said Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, the chief health officer in King County, Wash. “We would have been able to put prevention measures in place earlier and had fewer cases.”

Part of the C.D.C.’s start-up troubles, current and former employees said, was that the group in charge of the response initially — the Division of Viral Diseases — is smaller and has far less staff focused on contagious respiratory diseases than the C.D.C.’s Influenza Division, which eventually took more a leading role. “They were very quickly overwhelmed by what they had to do,” said Dr. Pierre Rollin, a virologist who left last year.

Now, more than 3,000 C.D.C. employees are aiding the coronavirus response, analyzing data, performing lab work and deploying to cities where local health departments need help. While other federal agencies are also involved — including the F.D.A., which has speeded the use of antibody tests; the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which has worked to get ventilators and other supplies; and the National Institutes of Health, which has studied vaccines and possible treatments — the C.D.C. is the reigning expert.

Even before the current crisis, Dr. Redfield had kept a low profile. Some days he could be spotted in a corner of the cafeteria, sipping coffee alone.

Although he is on the White House coronavirus task force, Dr. Redfield found himself eclipsed by Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s most famous infectious disease specialist, and Dr. Deborah Birx, an AIDS expert and former C.D.C. physician.

Meanwhile, his bonds with some of his own staff have frayed. One associate recounted him saying that the agency’s scientists had a “myopic” view of their roles, and characterized his relationship with his top deputy, Dr. Anne Schuchat, a career C.D.C. scientist deeply respected in the agency, as growing strained.

He has not been in Atlanta recently, shuttling instead between his home in Baltimore and the West Wing. One person familiar with his thinking described Dr. Redfield as feeling “a little bit on an island.”

The C.D.C. still has many defenders who say it has done the best it could battling a stealthy, previously unknown virus. “When they do release something, it does what C.D.C. ought to do — retain the voice of credibility,” said Dr. James A. Town, medical director of the intensive care unit at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. “Even if it’s coming at a slower pace, which can be frustrating, I think they’re pretty thoughtful and trying to make even-keeled investigations.”

Dr. Redfield declined to comment for this article. But in a recent interview with The Hill, he said, “I would say C.D.C. has never been stronger.”

In a briefing last week, he acknowledged that the nation must work to improve its systems to track disease outbreaks, though he disputed that the agency was somehow unable to detect when the coronavirus started to spread in the United States. “We were never really blind to the introduction of this virus,” he said.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

So nothing exciting last night except people robbing a train in Chicago? No twitter links

People getting tired. What is the news going to peddle as the next end of the world issue?

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Asks me to login. I hate these links.

Trumps fault, now you don't need to read it.

[IronMonkey415]

I see nothing has been done. All these talks about sending in the army were all smoke out of his ass?

Way too organized with their cars rolled up. Could be some sort of crime syndicates

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by IronMonkey415

I see nothing has been done. All these talks about sending in the army were all smoke out of his ass?

Way too organized with their cars rolled up. Could be some sort of crime syndicates

To be fair, you have to look good when robbing people and thuggin’ out.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by Onions

Two great posts in a row here. Love your perspective as well as JeremyNick's post you quoted.

Care to share a story of the system that is treating your brothers differently? Not doubting you at all, just out of a personal curiosity. If you do not want to share, I totally understand.

I think that micro/macro racism gets conflated. It is also very dangerous to do so. What happens when you convince people that they have no control over their success or that the deck is stacked against them? They lose motivation and personal accountability. Why even try if you believe that the outcome of your efforts has already been determined? Making people victims of the "system" is the same as controlling them. I hate it, but I see it every day. It crushes people.

No one wants to fail and if one does fail, they naturally look to blame it on someone or something else. It is human nature. Blaming it on the "system" is a great way to justify coming up short. Nobody wants to look back at themselves and accept whatever mistakes they made. The ones that are able to do this, are the ones that become successful.

I will be watching "Just Mercy" at the request of CalculusDork tomorrow. Maybe it will change my outlook.

On a larger scale, what "fixes" the problem we see ourselves faced with today? What can be done to assuage the outrage we see playing out in the streets across America? What steps could be taken to stop this? Human mistakes and errors in judgement will continue to occur no matter what we do, and if we plan or rioting on every single one of these incidents, we are in trouble. Hundreds of white people die every year at the hands of cops as well. Body cams on all police officers? Is it that simple that the officer that makes the wrong move is prosecuted? Is it fair that we expect perfection from a police officer in a extremely difficult situation just based on the race of the two parties? What if that situation is not easily understandable? Everyone wants to be able to go home and kiss their kids goodnight, but human error cannot always be considered a racist act. Perspective, objectivity, and common sense will need to be present in order to move forward.

If I was Trump I would immediately look to a person (Obama?) to head up a task force to explore what laws, regulations, etc. specifically target minorities and make recommendations to alter them. The crack vs. cocaine issue brought up by a poster yesterday would be a great example. If we are targeting certain groups unfairly, let's get it out there and fix it and remove the thumb off the scale of justice if it is there.

I have a few stories about it.

I can tell you that my black brothers have their cars searched anytime they're pulled over. Every. Single. Time. It's funny, because 2 of the three have never touched a drug in their life. Yet, like clockwork, if they're pulled over in our town they're searched.

Failure to use turn signal within some odd distance before turn --- pulled over and searched
Didn't stop for 5 seconds and a stop sign --- pulled over and searched
Speeding ---pulled over and searched

Hell, my brother was chewing on a straw once and was pulled over by a police officer and searched because the officer said he was smoking a joint and could smell it in the car. Again, he's never smoked weed in his life.

My white brother and have never been searched by the police. Not once. My white brother and I both have smoked weed heavily. Yet, still never searched. My black brothers who don't partake in any illegal activities haven't had this same luxury.

I do have one black brother who smokes. He's been pulled over with weed and arrested for it (rightfully so, it's illegal in our state). The funny thing about his arrest in our county was he was said to have had, and charged with, a felonious amount of weed. Now, he's never even had the purchasing power to have that amount nor has he ever had enough weed in his possession to be charged with a felony. How do I know this? I used to supply him with weed.

When he was pulled over HE DID have a misdemeanor amount. First offense in our county with a misdemeanor amount of marijuana is probation and a PR Bond once you're booked of $20. I know, because I've had the same charges on me before. The cops search him, take his tiny amount of weed (3.5 grams) and take him to jail. Again, this is the right thing to do in our county. When he arrived at the jail the cops "found" more weed on his persons. Now he's got new felony charges as the amount they said they found exceeded the misdemeanor amount AS WELL AS a new felony charge for trying to smuggle contraband into a correctional facility. Again, I can personally attest to him NOT doing what he was charged with, as I was the one procuring his weed for him and he was arrested after picking it up from me.

Why would the cops feel the need to do this? They had him dead to rights on misdemeanor possession. When I was arrested for the same thing in my county I wasn't met with the same situation. I have to suspect it's because he looked different.

I can tell you stories of my mother being pulled over in our neighborhood and having to step out the car because she "matches the description of a prostitute" and having to try to prove a negative. Mind you, my family lives in a gated community and at the time was the only black family in the neighborhood.

I could tell you an even crazier story about my cousin and his run in with the police that could make for a movie (and actually may in the future). I've got a bunch of them. Every family member I know has had a negative encounter with law enforcement, except for those of us on the white side. None of us have them.

I have more stories than I should have.

I agree with the "blaming it on the system" stance you took, but from my experience with the black community (and again, I've LIVED it as a white man) there's far fewer that blame the system as opposed to just wanting to be treated the same why I get treated by law enforcement and court systems. I don't think asking for fair treatment is a really tough task.

I know it's a long diatribe. It's just sad when I see comments from NC saying stuff like "I'll fight anyone to the death" in regards to systemic racism. I've lived and seen it since I was 4 years old (now 32). I can understand he doesn't have the same upbringing and experience I do, and I can't fault him for that, it's just seeing that type of stuff makes me realize how far apart the divide is and it sucks.

[TheHeel]

Defense Secretary Esper is speaking. He is stating that he does not support deploying military because it isn't needed. He also stated that he did not know he was going to the church photo op with Trump. Esper said he was told they were going to view the damage.

Edit due to my misunderstanding:

He knew he was going to the church. He did not know there was a photo op.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Defense Secretary Esper is speaking. He is stating that he does not support deploying military because it isn't needed. He also stated that he did not know he was going to the church photo op with Trump. Esper said he was told they were going to view the damage.

Edit due to my misunderstanding:

He knew he was going to the church. He did not know there was a photo op.

"I was going to an event with the President of the United States, but had no clue people would take pictures of him!!!"

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Defense Secretary Esper is speaking. He is stating that he does not support deploying military because it isn't needed. He also stated that he did not know he was going to the church photo op with Trump. Esper said he was told they were going to view the damage.

Edit due to my misunderstanding:

He knew he was going to the church. He did not know there was a photo op.

Nice edit silly goose