52 Topps Mantle help

rob80 · 05-29-2020, 04:33 PM

Let me start by saying this isn't my card and I am not looking to buy it. A friend came into possession of a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle and is debating on sending it in to be graded. Neither of us has much experience in vintage cardboard so I figured I would post some pics here and see if it is even worth sending in. Any feedback appreciated.

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bbnut · 05-29-2020, 04:42 PM

For that iconic and much counterfeited card, ABSOLUTELY send it!

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SGC300ier · 05-29-2020, 04:44 PM

Those corners are pretty perfectly rounded...

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rob80 · 05-29-2020, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGC300ier

Those corners are pretty perfectly rounded...

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That was the biggest red flag to me as well

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rob80 · 05-29-2020, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbnut

For that iconic and much counterfeited card, ABSOLUTELY send it!

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I think it is fake and he is on the fence. Trying to find some reasoning to back up my claim other than the corners being equally rounded and the fact it's not a card you just find

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mjohnatgt · 05-29-2020, 04:49 PM

Buy some raw commons from the 1952 Topps set (including a high number or two (#311-407)) from an online retailer and feel them and compare to the Mantle. Use a 10x or 20x loop and see the print dot patterns. Smell them and feel their edges. See how the edge wear and corner wear look and scrape them up a little and see what the interior paper looks like.

bbnut · 05-29-2020, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob80

I think it is fake and he is on the fence. Trying to find some reasoning to back up my claim other than the corners being equally rounded and the fact it's not a card you just find

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Yeah, I saw those corners, too. That's why I told him to send it in. Maybe I should have said to him "if it's too good to be true, it probably is."

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ThoseBackPages · 05-29-2020, 04:57 PM

HOW did he acquire it?

just the one card? no bueno

SGC300ier · 05-29-2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob80

That was the biggest red flag to me as well

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It looks like a beat up card, which I think is the intention here. I'm not an expert by any means, but my assumption is based on the corners alone being so rounded that it is indeed counterfeit. I could be 100% wrong.

That being said IF it was a real card regardless of condition, yes you would want to get it graded.

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towerymt · 05-29-2020, 05:47 PM

https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/

Looks like a type two to me, but I'm no expert...I just searched and found that page and compared their list to the photos above. The black spots on the bat...the black line along the top border...the missing pixel in the background....the lack of black line at the bottom of the yellow box on the front...

If it's a fake, it looks like a good fake.

good luck!

sbfinley · 05-29-2020, 05:47 PM

Save your $$. Type II counterfeit.

corndog · 05-29-2020, 06:04 PM

The first image is the one in the OP.
The second image is from a high resolution scan of a PSA 7.

There are dot patterns in the first image that should not be there.
Note the areas inside the red boxes. Also look at dot patterns in other places, especially the black rule square frame around the Yankees logo. Many discrepencies are present.

I don't know the differences between type 1 and type 2 versions, but additional dot patterns lead me to believe it's a reproduction.

Hope that helps.

JWBlue · 05-29-2020, 06:10 PM

What is a beat up 52 Mantle worth?

hxcmilkshake · 05-29-2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBlue

What is a beat up 52 Mantle worth?

A low eye appeal beat up "1" is probably 10k at least...

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sbfinley · 05-29-2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

The first image is the one in the OP.
The second image is from a high resolution scan of a PSA 7.

There are dot patterns in the first image that should not be there.
Note the areas inside the red boxes. Also look at dot patterns in other places, especially the black rule square frame around the Yankees logo. Many discrepencies are present.

I don't know the differences between type 1 and type 2 versions, but additional dot patterns lead me to believe it's a reproduction.

Hope that helps.

You actually referenced an Authentic Type I in your authentic example and the shading is different in between the two especially in the areas you referenced.

Foo3112 · 05-29-2020, 11:15 PM

Save your money. 100% Fake. Color, registration, and card texture all look off.

MOONBASE1 · 05-29-2020, 11:42 PM

Don't like it.

smapdi · 05-30-2020, 12:55 PM

Compare it side by side with another 1952 Topps. Most fakes are obvious compared to a real card. Thickness, feel, gloss, and weight are extremely tough to fake. Or if you can't make that comparison, offer to pay for grading before purchase. Gambling $60 or whatever versus $12K. Any legit seller would take that offer in a heartbeat. Just make sure the seller won't take the card to the open market once graded if legit.

And now that I look at the pics, it's obviously fake. See the black lines, such as around the Yankees logo? They should be solid black under any level of magnification. Here, the OP's card breaks down into dots under maybe 3x zoom. Compare to sbfinley's post.

Melagoo · 05-30-2020, 01:11 PM

... there are 2 types

"Topps issued two versions of the #311 Mickey Mantle card in its 1952 Topps set. There are several variations between the two cards and we highlight these differences below. If you’re in the market for a ’52 Mantle, then you should definitely get up to speed on the two different cards."

https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/

frenchquarter · 05-30-2020, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smapdi

Compare it side by side with another 1952 Topps. Most fakes are obvious compared to a real card. Thickness, feel, gloss, and weight are extremely tough to fake. Or if you can't make that comparison, offer to pay for grading before purchase. Gambling $60 or whatever versus $12K. Any legit seller would take that offer in a heartbeat. Just make sure the seller won't take the card to the open market once graded if legit.

And now that I look at the pics, it's obviously fake. See the black lines, such as around the Yankees logo? They should be solid black under any level of magnification. Here, the OP's card breaks down into dots under maybe 3x zoom. Compare to sbfinley's post.

It will cost $500 to grade this at PSA.

pete2345 · 05-30-2020, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchquarter

It will cost $500 to grade this at PSA.

Will it still cost the $500 even if it's deemed fake?

rogermaris · 05-30-2020, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smapdi

And now that I look at the pics, it's obviously fake. See the black lines, such as around the Yankees logo? They should be solid black under any level of magnification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foo3112

Save your money. 100% Fake. Color, registration, and card texture all look off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOONBASE1

Don't like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I don't know the differences between type 1 and type 2 versions, but additional dot patterns lead me to believe it's a reproduction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Save your $$. Type II counterfeit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGC300ier

It looks like a beat up card, which I think is the intention here. I'm not an expert by any means, but my assumption is based on the corners alone being so rounded that it is indeed counterfeit. I could be 100% wrong.

OP -- Please do not listen to the people in this thread.

The card you posted is 100% real. Do not be thrown off by the wear on the corners. The card only appears unnaturally yellow due to the incandescent lighting. If you send that card in for grading I guarantee it comes back authentic.

I also own a type II Mantle. For anyone who doubts the card is real, here are some side-by-side images with mine. It's a 100% match, right down to the dot matrix pattern.

rogermaris · 05-30-2020, 02:22 PM

Hopefully the dot matrix pattern is visible enough in the photos I posted, but in case it's not, here's a closeup of one area showing that the pattern matches on both cards. Again, not the easiest thing to illustrate...

rogermaris · 05-30-2020, 02:55 PM

One last point -- for all the people who focused in on the corners and concluded the card must be fake -- while I agree that uniformly rounded corners can be a cause for concern, it's far from a reliable indicator of authenticity.

Here's a great example of an authentic vintage card with uniformly rounded corners:

mjohnatgt · 05-30-2020, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete2345

Will it still cost the $500 even if it's deemed fake?

Contact them in advance. I have read some online posters state that PSA agreed to downgrade the submission level if their card was counterfeit.

05-29-2020, 04:33 PM	#1
rob80 Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 759 dj-relik	52 Topps Mantle help Let me start by saying this isn't my card and I am not looking to buy it. A friend came into possession of a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle and is debating on sending it in to be graded. Neither of us has much experience in vintage cardboard so I figured I would post some pics here and see if it is even worth sending in. Any feedback appreciated. Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk __________________ Wants: Comics ( Keys, CGC, Artgerm/Parillo/Mattina/Dell'Otto covers) Check my eBay, tons more listed there.

05-29-2020, 04:57 PM	#8
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 91,378 ThoseBackPages	HOW did he acquire it? just the one card? no bueno __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

05-29-2020, 05:47 PM	#10
towerymt Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: VA Posts: 9,121	https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/ Looks like a type two to me, but I'm no expert...I just searched and found that page and compared their list to the photos above. The black spots on the bat...the black line along the top border...the missing pixel in the background....the lack of black line at the bottom of the yellow box on the front... If it's a fake, it looks like a good fake. good luck! __________________ In search of... 2018 Topps Chrome Update Max Scherzer #HMT77: Superfractor 2019 Topps Update Carter Kieboom #US109: Platinum

05-29-2020, 06:04 PM	#12
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 19,113	The first image is the one in the OP. The second image is from a high resolution scan of a PSA 7. There are dot patterns in the first image that should not be there. Note the areas inside the red boxes. Also look at dot patterns in other places, especially the black rule square frame around the Yankees logo. Many discrepencies are present. I don't know the differences between type 1 and type 2 versions, but additional dot patterns lead me to believe it's a reproduction. Hope that helps. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal. Last edited by corndog; 05-29-2020 at 06:06 PM.

05-30-2020, 12:55 PM	#18
smapdi Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,773 piledriver1	Compare it side by side with another 1952 Topps. Most fakes are obvious compared to a real card. Thickness, feel, gloss, and weight are extremely tough to fake. Or if you can't make that comparison, offer to pay for grading before purchase. Gambling $60 or whatever versus $12K. Any legit seller would take that offer in a heartbeat. Just make sure the seller won't take the card to the open market once graded if legit. And now that I look at the pics, it's obviously fake. See the black lines, such as around the Yankees logo? They should be solid black under any level of magnification. Here, the OP's card breaks down into dots under maybe 3x zoom. Compare to sbfinley's post. Last edited by smapdi; 05-30-2020 at 12:58 PM.

05-29-2020, 04:42 PM	#2
bbnut Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 160	For that iconic and much counterfeited card, ABSOLUTELY send it! Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

05-29-2020, 04:44 PM	#3
SGC300ier Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Michigan Posts: 5,079 sgc_collectiblez	Those corners are pretty perfectly rounded... Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

05-29-2020, 04:49 PM	#6
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,924 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	Buy some raw commons from the 1952 Topps set (including a high number or two (#311-407)) from an online retailer and feel them and compare to the Mantle. Use a 10x or 20x loop and see the print dot patterns. Smell them and feel their edges. See how the edge wear and corner wear look and scrape them up a little and see what the interior paper looks like.

05-29-2020, 05:47 PM	#11
sbfinley Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nashville, Tn Posts: 1,328	Save your $$. Type II counterfeit.

05-29-2020, 06:10 PM	#13
JWBlue Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 10,406	What is a beat up 52 Mantle worth?

05-29-2020, 11:15 PM	#16
Foo3112 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: N/A Posts: 838	Save your money. 100% Fake. Color, registration, and card texture all look off.

05-29-2020, 11:42 PM	#17
MOONBASE1 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: East Coast Posts: 1,125	Don't like it.

05-30-2020, 01:11 PM	#19
Melagoo Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area) Ontario, Canada Posts: 8,506 Melagoo1 Melagoo	... there are 2 types "Topps issued two versions of the #311 Mickey Mantle card in its 1952 Topps set. There are several variations between the two cards and we highlight these differences below. If you’re in the market for a ’52 Mantle, then you should definitely get up to speed on the two different cards." https://allvintagecards.com/how-to-s...-topps-mantle/ __________________ Go Leafs! Go Jays! Go Raps! Go Bills!

05-30-2020, 02:22 PM	#23
rogermaris Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,205	Hopefully the dot matrix pattern is visible enough in the photos I posted, but in case it's not, here's a closeup of one area showing that the pattern matches on both cards. Again, not the easiest thing to illustrate... __________________ IG: @90swax

05-30-2020, 02:55 PM	#24
rogermaris Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,205	One last point -- for all the people who focused in on the corners and concluded the card must be fake -- while I agree that uniformly rounded corners can be a cause for concern, it's far from a reliable indicator of authenticity. Here's a great example of an authentic vintage card with uniformly rounded corners: __________________ IG: @90swax