Larry Legend. Better than MJ, Kobe or LeBron?

[cardnoob]

One day I’m going to play a drinking game where I take a shot every time Simmons mentions the Celtics or Bird on his podcast. For the record: I love his podcast

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Maybe you and Bill Simmons.

[thejazzcollector]

Originally Posted by PejaD

What active player's game is most similar to Bird's? A longer Steph Curry? A smaller, less athletic Kevin Durant?

I think Luka Doncic for sure. People who claim Larry wouldn’t be successful today because he’s not athletic enough...I feel like he’d be essentially a prototype of Luka with some height and a better shot

Originally Posted by chuckerrrr

Easily the White Goat! Def Too 5 all time in my opinion along with MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Wilt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man that’s tough to leave both Kareem and Magic out though.

[jdandns]

I'm not sure he could've thrived with today's long shorts.

[slum22]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Probably the GOAT pure shooter though.

Yes, better than Reggie, Ray, and Steph (close though).

If he trained like how they train now from 3 and beyond 26 feet, it would have been ridiculous.

I am admittedly a Curry homer. But while I have Larry ahead of Curry in terms of all-time player discussions, I have Curry over Larry as the GOAT pure shooter. There is still time left for him to drop off, but as of now, his 43.5% 3 pt shooting and 90.6% FT shooting for his career ranks number 1 in both categories over all three of the other players you mentioned (Larry, Reggie and Ray). I get the argument that Larry and Reggie would have practiced and shot more threes had they been incentivized to do so, but the fact is Curry's 3 Pt % is higher with a greater volume and a greater degree of difficulty when considering both distance and the fact he does a lot of damage off the bounce (versus Ray and Reggie who were primarily catch and shoot). And they all practiced FT's and Curry is ahead of them all in that too.

ETA: And oh yes, Larry is not the GOAT. Nothing wrong with being a top 5-10 all time lock though. I think after MJ, you can start making legitimate arguments for a lot of people in the 2-8 range.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by kevbojones

We always compare Jordan, Kobe and Lebron.

Am I the only one who thinks Larry Bird should be in the mix for GOAT?

Bird was my favorite player of all time. So much heart and talent and just a super smart player. It's a shame he was plagued by a bad back that ended his career early. He gave it everything he had when he played. This is one of those things that's impossible to compare players from different eras though. I mean while Bird and Magic were in their prime Jordan didn't win anything. He didn't start winning until they were at the very end of their careers. The NBA was kind of soft and was in a lull besides Jordan after Bird and Magic retired. The Bulls of the 90's were very good but I don't feel like they had a whole lot of competition. That's my opinion anyways.

[jwillgrails]

Originally Posted by slum22

I am admittedly a Curry homer. But while I have Larry ahead of Curry in terms of all-time player discussions, I have Curry over Larry as the GOAT pure shooter. There is still time left for him to drop off, but as of now, his 43.5% 3 pt shooting and 90.6% FT shooting for his career ranks number 1 in both categories over all three of the other players you mentioned (Larry, Reggie and Ray). I get the argument that Larry and Reggie would have practiced and shot more threes had they been incentivized to do so, but the fact is Curry's 3 Pt % is higher with a greater volume and a greater degree of difficulty when considering both distance and the fact he does a lot of damage off the bounce (versus Ray and Reggie who were primarily catch and shoot). And they all practiced FT's and Curry is ahead of them all in that too.

ETA: And oh yes, Larry is not the GOAT. Nothing wrong with being a top 5-10 all time lock though. I think after MJ, you can start making legitimate arguments for a lot of people in the 2-8 range.

100% agree with this entire post

[WillC]

I'll let the players and coaches do the talking:

John Wooden: "I've always considered Oscar Robertson to be the best player in the game," says John Wooden. "Now I'm not so sure that Larry Bird isn't."

Jerry West: "He is as nearly perfect as you can get in almost every phase of basketball."

James Worthy: “I’d much rather guard Michael Jordan than Larry Bird because you have to play the game as a thinker when you’re playing him – you have to get inside his mind”

Larry Bird: "All I know is that people tend to forget how great the older great players were," says Bird. "It'll happen that way with me, too."

[RogerGodahell]

I've always wondered how many more championships that Celtics team would have won if Len Bias didn't die of an overdose a few days after being drafted #2. A lot of people at that time compared Bias ability to Jordan coming out of college. Same freakish athletic and jumping ability, but Bias was a better pure shooter. There's some old footage of them actually playing against each other, Maryland vs UNC. Kind of painful as a Celtics fan wondering what if? Just imagine if Jordan and Bird were on the same team together.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by chuckerrrr

Easily the White Goat! Def Too 5 all time in my opinion along with MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Wilt.

i agree with this, though i'd swap out wilt for kareem.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by Wings

I'd put him above Kobe and below LBJ and MJ.

i have bird about even with kobe and lebron - kobe's five rings to bird's and lebron's three/each can't be ignored. MJ and kareem still the top two.

[GeechQuest]

What Bird had can't really be quantified statistically, and for people who didn't see him play live (me) or people who haven't gone back to watch (most everybody else my age) it's easy to dismiss him.

But if you take the time to study the game you realize the only thing holding Bird back from the discussion of GOAT title was MJ (no shame) and injuries.

The 80's with Bird, Magic, and MJ was probably the highest level of top-tier basketball ever played, and Bird shined the brightest for about 1/3 of his career.

I still have him behind Lebron because of the longevity of careers (arbitrary by me) and just the sheer size and athleticism of Lebron (matched only by Wilt). Lebron just doesn't always have that killer instinct motor going 100% of the time. Guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe had the motor every game they ever played.

Ipso facto: The list for best Guard/Wing players is teeny tiny, and Bird is probably 2 or 3 on that list.

If I ranked all the guards/wings ever I'm probably going:

1. MJ
2. Bird/Lebron
3. Magic
4. Kobe

That's the list. It's small.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by kevbojones

We always compare Jordan, Kobe and Lebron.

Am I the only one who thinks Larry Bird should be in the mix for GOAT?

He lost to Magic Johnson too much to be the GOAT. MJ, Wilt and Magic are the top 3. Bird is definitely in the mix for #4. He is one of the 5 on my all time team with LeBron.

[pcptrade]

Magic is the greatest point guard of all time and Bird is one of the greatest small forwards of all time. Bird and Magic's basketball IQ ranks among the top 10. Both of them are in the list of top 10 basketball players of all time, both ranked higher than Kobe and Magic ranked higher than Bird (source below)

I posted this in a different thread yesterday...

Originally Posted by pcptrade

I am no expert, so I resorted to google search of "Top 10 basketball players of all time" and the following hits came up on the front page, all of these articles were from the past two years. Most of them have MJ at #1 and LBJ at #2 except the last three which have LBJ at #1 and MJ at #2. Kobe is not in the top #5 and I do not know why but he is in the top 15. If any of you are upset and disagree with the list and want to show you anger, please direct it towards the authors of these articles or google search engine

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...op-50-revealed

https://clutchpoints.com/updating-ra...t-players-nba/

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/galler...history-100716

https://www.thedelite.com/best-nba-b...f-all-time/48/

https://www.lineups.com/articles/top...yers-all-time/

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/...A-Players-Ever

https://www.britannica.com/list/the-...rs-of-all-time

Disclosure: I collect Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Magic and Bird

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

What Bird had can't really be quantified statistically, and for people who didn't see him play live (me) or people who haven't gone back to watch (most everybody else my age) it's easy to dismiss him.

But if you take the time to study the game you realize the only thing holding Bird back from the discussion of GOAT title was MJ (no shame) and injuries.

The 80's with Bird, Magic, and MJ was probably the highest level of top-tier basketball ever played, and Bird shined the brightest for about 1/3 of his career.

I still have him behind Lebron because of the longevity of careers (arbitrary by me) and just the sheer size and athleticism of Lebron (matched only by Wilt). Lebron just doesn't always have that killer instinct motor going 100% of the time. Guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe had the motor every game they ever played.

Ipso facto: The list for best Guard/Wing players is teeny tiny, and Bird is probably 2 or 3 on that list.

If I ranked all the guards/wings ever I'm probably going:

1. MJ
2. Bird/Lebron
3. Magic
4. Kobe

That's the list. It's small.

fair... agree

[isles4life]

Bird may be the best shooter of all time. He is very underrated in that dept. IMO he is right there with Steph.

[HoodaBest2k20]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

What Bird had can't really be quantified statistically, and for people who didn't see him play live (me) or people who haven't gone back to watch (most everybody else my age) it's easy to dismiss him.

But if you take the time to study the game you realize the only thing holding Bird back from the discussion of GOAT title was MJ (no shame) and injuries.

The 80's with Bird, Magic, and MJ was probably the highest level of top-tier basketball ever played, and Bird shined the brightest for about 1/3 of his career.

I still have him behind Lebron because of the longevity of careers (arbitrary by me) and just the sheer size and athleticism of Lebron (matched only by Wilt). Lebron just doesn't always have that killer instinct motor going 100% of the time. Guys like MJ, Bird, and Kobe had the motor every game they ever played.

Ipso facto: The list for best Guard/Wing players is teeny tiny, and Bird is probably 2 or 3 on that list.

If I ranked all the guards/wings ever I'm probably going:

1. MJ
2. Bird/Lebron
3. Magic
4. Kobe

That's the list. It's small.

I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??

[WillC]

Originally Posted by rats60

He lost to Magic Johnson too much to be the GOAT. MJ, Wilt and Magic are the top 3. Bird is definitely in the mix for #4. He is one of the 5 on my all time team with LeBron.

So let me get this right...

Bird lost to Magic too much to be top 3? And yet you have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 3 despite the fact he regularly lost to Bill Russell!

Anti Celtics much?

[WillC]

Originally Posted by HoodaBest2k20

I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??

I think a fair number of people, myself included.

[HoodaBest2k20]

Originally Posted by WillC

I think a fair number of people, myself included.

Celtics fan lol?

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by HoodaBest2k20

I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??

Kobe is my all time favorite player and no other player is close.

I’d take Bird.

[Orangejello727]

These battle of opinions are al the same. Everyones got one.

The best way to bring these up is to outline... "I respect your list, will you respect mine?" or "I am okay with you putting x before y, please be okay with me putting y before x"

[GoNYGoNYGo]

Originally Posted by HoodaBest2k20

I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??

I think a lot of people would take Bird over Kobe. I admit I was born in 87 so never watched Bird that I can remember and watched all of Kobe's career. Having said that I always assumed it was close between the two of them but during quarantine I have had the chance to watch some old classics and watch video of what Bird could do and I don't htink its as close as I originally thought.

Bird was such a good playmaker and shooter. His passing may be the best I have seen from a big man ever. There were points when I was watching where he would go up and I would assume he was going to force a contested shot (too much recency bias) and all of a sudden he would slip a pass to a wide open Parish for a dunk or McHale or something he was SO SMART on the court and he had the skills to back it up.

I still think its Jordan - Lebron but I think Bird/Magic are probably even at 3/4.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

I've always wondered how many more championships that Celtics team would have won if Len Bias didn't die of an overdose a few days after being drafted #2. A lot of people at that time compared Bias ability to Jordan coming out of college. Same freakish athletic and jumping ability, but Bias was a better pure shooter. There's some old footage of them actually playing against each other, Maryland vs UNC. Kind of painful as a Celtics fan wondering what if? Just imagine if Jordan and Bird were on the same team together.

Bias would have been a HOF player. I am certain of it.

ACC Big East during that era was incredible.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by WillC

So let me get this right...

Bird lost to Magic too much to be top 3? And yet you have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 3 despite the fact he regularly lost to Bill Russell!

Anti Celtics much?

Not to mention Magic and Kareem are the only top 5 candidates to play on the same team which may have had something to do with winning more. Also if we are going to hammer Lebron about the weak East (I do), we have to do the same about that weak 80s West.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by HoodaBest2k20

I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??

Plenty just like plenty would take Kobe

It's the acting like the others are stupid like you're doing that's the problem