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| SOCCER/FUTBOL Post your Soccer/Futbol Cards Hobby Talk |
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03-20-2020, 08:41 AM
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#426 |
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My 5 cents to all of this.
collecting for 20 years, not just collecting but having more fun watching the industry, trends, people doing good and wrong decisions... following all the sports, not just soccer...
-Nobody will ever tell, "wow, you own Mbappe base PRIZM 2018". -Mbappe price rise is too fast. 90% of people will get burned. (people are buying lots and sending clean cards to the PSA/BGS and then selling 9.5/10 for a nice profit. rest of the not-clean rookies are being re-sold. People who buys those will be burned. If you want to make big money, you need to have contacts and experience. -important here is, what is your expectation. If you believe those will be triple in price soon, then you are probably wrong, huge risk. He would need to win another WC, or EURO or Golden Ball to see bigger bump in prices. -He did nothing last few months. on the other side, there is global virus situation, we might get into recession. maybe not as big as in 2009, but still. People will be selling their cards cheap to get some cash. Save your money now and wait for your white whales in discount. -Mbappe's rookies - which one. For the real soccer collectors from Europe it is a sticker. For americans/asians it should be Topps chrome, but for some 'unknown' reason it is PRIZM. (people gets inspiration from other sports). There will be always conflict of what his rookie card really is, that won't help. -Cannot compare to Messi RC, it is clearly a card, everyone knows which one it is. It is Panini so it helps, It was update edition so 'low' print, and just in Spain. Also Messi was not GOAT then, nobody even expected it. Majority of those cards are damaged or lost.... On the other side, Mbappe has already GOAT-like status and ten-thousands of 'rookie' cards. -there are many fake sells on Ebay, to raise the specific card value in the eyes of people. Mbappe is defintelly among those. On the other side: -Mbappe is the best bet from all the actual players to be able to get into the Messi/Ronaldo stardom. Already won WC and will won at least one more. he will also get few GoldenBalls, but not 6. -there always be Mbappe Chrome and Prizm cards on ebay, even in 10-20 years. Those were printed in ten-thousands. Worst case scenario you will need to pay 100$ for it in 2030 if he will have profilic career. No problem. Trash talk: -Sancho and Sterling are English, they can't hold the pressure, they are young and already too cocky. They play for the money. Ronaldo plays to be the best, that is the additional motivation you need to have to be the GOAT. -Haland and Fati, what are their rookie card? People are paying crazy money for this year stickers. I would rather put those money on their Topps Now, which seems to be real rookies. (it is card, from Topps, visible in Becket database). Print run is very nice around 250-350. what is ideal for the rookie card to raise it's value to universe. But what if collectors will rather get PRIZM 'rookies'. Will Haland get any? Norway might not get it to any tournament. Is Zlatan's PRIZM EURO his rookie?  -I feel like 0.5% of cards is raising in value. (Messi & Ronaldo from PRIZM and Flawless. NOIR Spotlight cards,...). -what Eminence card is raising in value? I see each one being sold for less and less. Yes there were some sold for 16k for example (MEssi One of a kind), but who knows if that card hit the market today, if it would sell for more, probably not. -somebody mentioned those James Rodriguez PRIZM WC 2014 autos being sold for crazy money at one time. remember it very well. Everybody with the piece of brain was surprised and knew it wont last. Same should be expected here.
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03-20-2020, 10:33 AM
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#428 | |
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Quote:
No 18/19 Donruss hobby cases as well... |
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03-20-2020, 10:37 AM
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#429 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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If there is anything to be learned from watching the industry, it’s that the relationship between supply and demand is far from clear cut. Print runs mean very little unless the card happens to be a parallel of an already desirable base card (i.e. Topps Chrome refractors and colored Prizms). What matters most is if a card is considered iconic. There are a myriad of examples of this across all sports.
What is most important is to ascertain which cards of specific players are most desired by the market and will become iconic cards. You can fight it if you want, but the collective mindset of the market as a whole will have the last say on the financial value of a card. There are certainly waves and trends but at some point the tracks get laid and the train leaves the station. At this point,it’s probably not going to put it in reverse to any significant degree. On the stickers, I hate to be blunt, but from a financial perspective only (not collector), cards will trump stickers because that’s where the money is. Period. Stickers are not in every sport and the new money flowing into the market is not coming from exclusively soccer collectors. If all this money leaves the market (which is unlikely IMO), then stickers may get a chance to come back and reign as king. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-20-2020, 10:42 AM
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#430 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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On Fati, I would recommend both Megacracks and Obsidian over Topps Now. I seriously doubt the continued appreciation of Topps Now RCs and ever being perceived as iconic and highly desirable. The Haaland Topps Now may be somewhat of an exception because there was such a feeding frenzy for any rookie card of him and Topps Now was the best choice at the time. Just wait until the chrome releases
  . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-20-2020, 11:07 AM
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#431 | |
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Quote:
__________________
Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right. |
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03-20-2020, 11:17 AM
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#432 |
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Out of curiosity what do you guys think of
a) "stickers" that aren't auto-adhesive, ie you have to manually stick them into an album b) cards that are designed to be stuck into albums c) cards of differing sizes, eg cigarette, mini, stamp size, etc d) cards of differing shapes, eg square, circular |
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03-20-2020, 01:46 PM
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#433 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,255
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Quote:
 And for that to happen you need to be the best player/leader on dominant teams, for both club and country. You've got to at least make the finals of multiple international tournaments AND win multiple Champions League titles. Mpabbe isn't close to that level yet.... |
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03-20-2020, 02:17 PM
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#434 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
Haha yes it goes without saying that the player must be iconic. I was speaking more about specific cards. Again, I think Mbappe is a very wise investment given current prices. Will he skyrocket into Messi and Ronaldo’s level of fame? I would say this is highly unlikely, but then again who will? I would say he’s off to more than just a promising start. To say otherwise is simply denying reality. It’s easy to criticize young players and say what they haven’t accomplished, that’s why collectors and investors look at what kind of career they may be projected to have. It’s like comparing all basketball players to Jordan in their first few seasons, OF COURSE they don’t have the same resume. Again, we don’t have a crystal ball, but indications of stardom are very strong with this one! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-20-2020, 04:39 PM
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#435 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,255
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Quote:
All you have to do is to look at the prices of past superstars once their career ends or the spotlight moves on to the next hot prospect. |
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03-20-2020, 05:13 PM
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#436 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
I think you are right in the case of the low numbered parallels of Mbappe. There is some SERIOUS cash being thrown down. If he doesn’t translate into a megastar, there will be significant dollars lost there. I think in contrast however, his premium base offerings even in PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 are very reasonable with the potential to double or triple quite easily with a few consecutive years of high quality performance from Mbappe. These are more appealing to me, but I must admit that I’m somewhat of a low risk, medium reward guy due to my bank account. But yeah, Interesting takeaway from looking at eBay sales, I do see some significant polarity in the high end stuff compared to his base offerings even at high graded. It’s like the high rollers want to throw it all down on the best of the best and not waste any time on buying up quantity. That’s where the cheapskates like me come in haha. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-20-2020, 07:58 PM
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#437 | |
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: In the Goldilocks Zone
Posts: 8,589
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03-20-2020, 09:40 PM
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#438 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,541
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03-21-2020, 04:40 AM
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#439 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
__________________
https://www.instagram.com/manchesterunitedcards/ |
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03-22-2020, 11:03 AM
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#440 | |
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Quote:
I will say this, can we stop with the comments like "real soccer collectors from Europe". You all do you and we in the US and Asia will do us and let's leave it at that. For the most part we don't like stickers, most will never like stickers, we think stickers are for children, period so please stop acting like you collect soccer right and the rest of us are doing it wrong. Hobbies evolve and as more and more people get into soccer especially in the US it's going to evolve into how Basketball and other sports are now in US. You can still buy and collect your stickers, don't worry though. The other thing is your comment no one will ever say "wow, you own Mbappe base PRIZM 2018" I'm sure someone in 2000 was saying the base Bowman Chrome Tom Brady was never going to be worth much because they made thousands and now raw it's a $500 card and in the thousands and tens of thousands in high grade as a refractor. Same can be said about the Lebron James base 03/04 Chrome. The base cards are upwards of $1000 and the refractor is ridiculous. Mbappe's two base from Chrome and Prizm will continue to rise if he does good and his parallels will be in the thousands IF he does what people think he will but it's a big risk, yes. Do not ignore the value of base cards is my point especially higher grade ones. How rookie cards work in the US- There is no "real" rookie that is the first card that was ever made of a player in US card collecting. Players have multiple rookie cards in most cases and the market decides what they like. In Mbappe's case it is the 17/18 Chrome and the 18 WC Prizm because the Prizm came out in the summer at the end of the 17/18 season. For Haland it will most likely be any card that comes out this year for season 19/20 and he is sure to be in Chrome products so this will most likely be most wanted as it has been said before Chrome and Prizm are king. Since there most likely will not be a Prizm product this year for Haland I would think that if a Prizm card is made next season would not be considered a rookie card but it would be highly collectible. No one considers the Mbappe Donruss 18/19 Donruss his rookie but have you seen the prices of his holos? They are selling for crazy amounts too. That's just how we view rookies in the US. I see a lot of smart advice that you point out especially with Mbappe being a huge risk but some of the things you suggest just aren't right and not how the market works if a player becomes GOAT status and how the market decides what cards are "the" card to have. |
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03-22-2020, 12:41 PM
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#441 |
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There's a false logical leap somewhere that the TC, Select and Prizm are valuable therefore they must be rookies. It's perfectly OK for them to have demand and value in their own right, look at early 60's Pele's, Maradonas 2nd and 3rd year issue, they all do well but aren't considered rookies. 99% of rookies come from the earliest pro season with an issue from a major manufacturer, the 16/17 Mbappe is clearly this card . The multiple rookie cards only comes into play when there are multiple issues in the year which is not the case here, there are very few debates out there spanning across seasons. Where there exceptions are eg Star Basketball, it's usually for a specific reason.
Rookie specific soccer collectors, which is still a massive driver of the soccer market despite the new prizm/TC influx, will always go for the 16/17 Mbappe as if you skipped stickers you wouldn't have much of a collection. Of course when there are cards and stickers from the same season everyone will prefer the card. Like someone mentioned earlier I don't know why so many new collectors have chosen the Mbappe hill to die and keep bringing it up instead of leaving people to collect whatever they want. On Mbappe himself I think he's clearly best placed to be the man but I don't know how high his ceiling is. He needs to be kicking on these next couple of seasons, a UCL, or Ballon d'Or or starring at the European championships is the minimum he needs to start justifying his prices. To do that he basically has to write himself into the story of football over the next decade. We have been ridiculously spoiled to arguably have two of the top 4 players of all time going head to head but we can't expect to have someone of that level the whole time. Personally I think he can be a top 10 player like the original Ronaldo but he might have to move to achieve that. |
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03-23-2020, 07:31 AM
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#442 |
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Kai Havertz - 1/1 Rated Rookie
I just pulled the Havertz 1-1 rated rookie 18/19 Donruss.
I don't know a ton about his background, is he any good (potential?) TIA Last edited by bloomie6; 03-23-2020 at 11:39 AM. |
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03-23-2020, 07:38 AM
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#443 |
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Some good comments in posts above.
-"high price of TC, PRIZM,Select, doesn't mean that those are rookies." Here I had to agree. There were set some rules in the last 50 years in other sports of what the 'true rookie card' is. Actual situation doesn't follow this, at least now. Old timers will continue collect as they were used to, and young blood will be building their collection of cards of first appearance of the player on the PRIZM/Chrome product. If somebody would show me his soccer rookie collection, and there will be Mbappe Prizm, I will always explain to him that it is not a rookie, but that is his first PRIZM card. -compare Brady rookies to Mbappe is not good example. Brady was drafted from last round, those were trash cards, nobody cared. His rookies rise to heaven after he won 5th SB. So he proven something, Mbappe not yet. Lebron is a different story, there the comment is right, everyone expected that he will be 'next jordan', same as for Mbappe, and even the rookies started high, they were able to raise till today (not always, if he wouldn't win with Cleveland, there would not be a bump, so still some achievements are needed during the carrier). -"collecting is changing and market is dictating value" - true and always be, but we need to remain to call the things with the real names as those are. We will see if people will continue to rather spent 600$ on PRIZM Mbappe /65 or Ronaldo Flawless on card auto with sole pieces (that was price even 1 year after the release). Another idea to think about: -it is 2020, and Mbappes cards from 2018 started to raise just now. Why? why not right after WC2018, where he won. Answer should be: because market dictates so, but still why. Probably because somebody respected told so, or there were some scammed sells at the start, or people got inspired from PRIZM prices in NBA/NFL... ) all risky assumptions, soccer is different then NBA/NFL... I know I am not 100% right, probably not even 75%, but I like discussion and it will definitely help some collectors. |
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03-23-2020, 08:31 AM
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#444 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
__________________
https://www.instagram.com/manchesterunitedcards/ |
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03-23-2020, 08:51 AM
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#445 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
Congrats! That’s an awesome pull! Yes, as someone already pointed out Havertz is an immensely talented player with his best years ahead of him. There’s a lot of buzz about which club will scoop him up, but it sounds inevitable that a major club will land him. He is currently one of the most if not THE most underrated buys on the market right now. Hold on to that 1/1 for a bit and congratulations! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-23-2020, 09:31 AM
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#446 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
I like all of the discussion around these topics as well, regardless of what side you land on. The market is definitely evolving, and new rules keep being created by the collective market as to what is deemed valuable. I think the major reasons for Mbappe’s rise are the following: His consistent quality performance and prolific goal scoring (he certainly isn’t just a flash in the pan), the perception by many of Mbappe becoming the next top dog after Messi and CR7 exit the scene, the rise of the sports card market in general, the recent recognition of soccer as an extremely undervalued market, and (sigh) Gary Vee as much as he annoys me personally. I think ALOT of collectors wait until they see the crowd go all in on someone and the frenzy keeps escalating. I try to stay ahead of these waves as much as possible and have been fairly successful thus far (apologies for the back patting moment). I honestly bought Mbappe at less than half of what he’s currently selling for and to me that is definitely money well spent. We shall see what the future holds for him. Also, as someone else pointed out, don’t underestimate Jadon Sancho. I know the kid is certainly hyped, but he is hyped for good reason. His skill is phenomenal (watch some highlights on YouTube and it will make you want to buy up everything you see) and if you don’t buy him now before he (like Havertz) upgrades his club status, the buy in could be much more painful. That is, of course, if the card market in general stays hot after this global pandemic. I’m optimistic for recovery, but it will depend almost as much on sports resuming as the market rebounding. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-23-2020, 09:43 AM
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#447 |
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 41,102
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For those of you who collect sports other than soccer, it's pretty easy to understand why Prizm and TC are catching big $$$ now.
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03-23-2020, 09:48 AM
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#448 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
TRUTH Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-23-2020, 12:28 PM
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#449 | |
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Quote:
__________________
Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right. |
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03-23-2020, 12:35 PM
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#450 | |
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Quote:
But with the globalization of sports memorabilia, more and more people will come into the soccer world from other sports. And those people don't really care about stickers, they want cards. The Mbappe thing is not ridiculous at all. His TC/Prizm RC are around $40. Select is around $30. What other major superstar have card RCs? Most of the guys playing were too "old" for those cards to be considered RC. Mbappe is one of the candidates to take over Messi/CR7 AND he has what can be considered a true RC.
__________________
Basketball Sets: Threads Century Greats Jerseys - Innovation Stat Line Jerseys Soccer Sets: 2018 World Cup Prizm Peru Parallels - 2015 Select Soccer Peru Parallels Players: Red Bulls Parallels, 17-18 Thibs Prizms, Soccer Legends Autos |
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