LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[ThoseBackPages]

is this the first time that BODA has given their "100% approval" and then rescinded it after the fact?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

is this the first time that BODA has given their "100% approval" and then rescinded it after the fact?

I never gave my "100% approval".

[ichirorox]

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doesn’t matter if BODA gave approval or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is it appears to be trimmed which is just very unfortunate.

[ThoseBackPages]

where can we see the bottom in the 14 year old picture?

[rebbrooks]

Originally Posted by ichirorox

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doesn’t matter if BODA gave approval or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is it appears to be trimmed which is just very unfortunate.

Yep, & the investment group is implying the photo showing proof is doctored.

[cking]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Measurements via pictures are irrelevant here, Beckett will measure the card raw and no doubt verify it is within specs.

Beckett cant even take the 1 second it would take to see that that this card is recolored

Yet, you think they take time to measure cards. Beckett does not measure cards.

Beckett has you right where they want you.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

As I recall, the first thing I stated in my comments on this card in December was that I am not an expert on the LBJ exquisite.

There was more that you forgot to quote.

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Who am I? I'm a nobody. But I at least know to refer any LBJ Exquisite RPA inquiry to buybuymj to see if he has the card in his archive. You apparently didn't know that.

Do you think the submission I rebuilt is suggestive of a trimmer?

Do you think there is any doubt that this card is altered?

I'm assuming you rebuilt the submission previously? What were your thoughts then? And do you have any doubt the card is altered? Or do you have 100% confidence in your new assessment?

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Moving forward, professional grading companies exist for a reason; do they make mistakes ABSOLUTELY...But in cases like this people are basically taking the opinions of non paid non professionals over the professionals we pay for their options who actually have an opportunity to examine the card thoroughly and completely in "raw" form. If you don't like the grading companies opinions, don't buy the cards...but don't "kill" other peoples cards based on speculation or hearsay.

Joe,

I believe there is another side to consider in this as well. At one point you sought me out on Instagram to ask my advice on an Anthony Davis RPA. I gave my opinion and made sure to emphasize it was just that - not trying to bash the card in any fashion. Just one hobby enthusiast trying to help another.

You thanked me and noted that you had been referred to me because I was the #1 source (you even bolded the #1). I want to interject here that I never referred to myself as that nor do I think of myself in that way, I'm just including that to show that you do indeed value opinions outside of the professionals.

Afterward you shared with the potential trader what I said and he messaged me about it and was pretty upset.

All of that is to say 2 things:

1) I feel like you're downplaying the role of the "non-professionals" here but have had no trouble seeking them out in the past for your own potential purchases/trades.

2) From then on, I haven't had much interest in helping people who message me privately about a card. I went about it in the most respectful way possible and ended up getting heat from the potential trader who wasn't even in on the conversation.

I enjoyed our 2 conversations at the time and I only add this because I think it's relevant to this situation as well. I don't speak for 312 and this is not an attempt to defend him either.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Who am I? I'm a nobody. But I at least know to refer any LBJ Exquisite RPA inquiry to buybuymj to see if he has the card in his archive. You apparently didn't know that.

Do you think the submission I rebuilt is suggestive of a trimmer?

Do you think there is any doubt that this card is altered?

The buyer didn’t confirm with BBMJ either...

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

And I take issue with 312 providing his opinion before the sale, then changing his mind, outing the card here, and not even acknowledging that he made a mistake in his original assessment.

I guess we see this differently. COMC is not the purchaser, seller, nor the authority on anything regardless what same may think. He just relays information.

If you ask for his opinion is he not allowed to change his mind if new information comes to light? Should you even ask for his opinion at all???

[usmc03vet]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Joe,

I believe there is another side to consider in this as well. At one point you sought me out on Instagram to ask my advice on an Anthony Davis RPA. I gave my opinion and made sure to emphasize it was just that - not trying to bash the card in any fashion. Just one hobby enthusiast trying to help another.

You thanked me and noted that you had been referred to me because I was the #1 source (you even bolded the #1). I want to interject here that I never referred to myself as that nor do I think of myself in that way, I'm just including that to show that you do indeed value opinions outside of the professionals.

Afterward you shared with the potential trader what I said and he messaged me about it and was pretty upset.

All of that is to say 2 things:

1) I feel like you're downplaying the role of the "non-professionals" here but have had no trouble seeking them out in the past for your own potential purchases/trades.

2) From then on, I haven't had much interest in helping people who message me privately about a card. I went about it in the most respectful way possible and ended up getting heat from the potential trader who wasn't even in on the conversation.

I enjoyed our 2 conversations at the time and I only add this because I think it's relevant to this situation as well. I don't speak for 312 and this is not an attempt to defend him either.

Hey buddy, I remember very well...I passed on the AD RPA based on the information that I had received from you.

I don't reach out to many people for advice but when I do, there are a handful of people that I seek advice from and respect the opinion of.

In the end of the day, we as consumers need to make our own decisions and live with those decisions.

But I will say this, you never said that the card was definitively altered or definitively not altered, you gave your opinion and that was all.

In this case with COMC, in an earlier post told these guys "glad to see you were able to make a deal" and "One of the elusive unaltered Lebron RCs in a slab."

Now he says "I never gave my "100% approval"."

Weird

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

The buyer didn’t confirm with BBMJ either...

Not the issue at hand.

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

If you ask for his opinion is he not allowed to change his mind if new information comes to light? Should you even ask for his opinion at all???

Of course he can change his mind; doesn't change the fact that he did a poor job in vetting the card. There should be some degree of tact in how that information is made public. I think it would have been appropriate for a disclaimer from 312 that he originally reviewed this card upon request and felt it was legit, but has now changed his mind based on new evidence. And no, I would not personally ask for his opinion in the future. Others can make their own decision.

I have wondered why this card didn't get its own thread. Somehow all of these were important enough to get their own thread, but a $500k card isn't.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1342174

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1334991

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1350862

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1342309

[usmc03vet]

Originally Posted by cking

Beckett cant even take the 1 second it would take to see that that this card is recolored

Yet, you think they take time to measure cards. Beckett does not measure cards.

Beckett has you right where they want you.

I literally said that Beckett WILL measure the card raw! Considering it is being sent back to Beckett to get examined AGAIN, I think for a card of this magnitude they will take the time to measure it.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Not the issue at hand.


Of course he can change his mind; doesn't change the fact that he did a poor job in vetting the card. There should be some degree of tact in how that information is made public. I think it would have been appropriate for a disclaimer from 312 that he originally reviewed this card upon request and felt it was legit, but has now changed his mind based on new evidence. And no, I would not personally ask for his opinion in the future. Others can make their own decision.

I have wondered why this card didn't get its own thread. Somehow all of these were important enough to get their own thread, but a $500k card isn't.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1342174

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1334991

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1350862

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1342309

Yeah we just see this one completely different. I think to blame COMC for doing a poor job vetting the card is less an issue than the buyer doing the same poor job vetting the card. In the end the buyer(s) is the one spending the cash.

Point blank if you’re reaching out to some random person to vet something for you, you’re out of your depth and obviously should be seeing the red flags just based on the fact you had to ask.

Also, just so we’re clear, you say COMC did an improper job vetting the card yet you’ve “argued” (just a word I know we’re not arguing) that the chips on the right edge could be reflections, that the bottom edge isn’t fully discernible, and that the corners aren’t concrete evidence. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you of the belief this card isn’t actually trimmed? If so, then wouldn’t COMC have done his due diligence when asked?

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

I literally said that Beckett WILL measure the card raw! Considering it is being sent back to Beckett to get examined AGAIN, I think for a card of this magnitude they will take the time to measure it.

They won’t and they don’t.

Even if they did, 03/04 Exquisite is sized horrendously out the box....

[usmc03vet]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

They won’t and they don’t.

Even if they did, 03/04 Exquisite is sized horrendously out the box....

Cool...then the card is legitimate, graded 9.5/10. End of discussion.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

They won’t and they don’t.

Even if they did, 03/04 Exquisite is sized horrendously out the box....

so youre saying there could be some size discrepancies out of the pack?

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Cool...then the card is legitimate, graded 9.5/10. End of discussion.

Sure...

If I was explaining this card and this situation to my 2 year old that’s EXACTLY how I would do it because she can’t grasp nuance and complexity yet.

1 + 2 = END OF DISCUSSION

You are correct though that the card is graded a 9.5 and at the end of the day that’s all anybody will care about.

You are incorrect if you’re saying the card isn’t trimmed. Anybody can see that it is.

[usmc03vet]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

so youre saying there could be some size discrepancies out of the pack?

Well yes he did buddy...therefore making this trimming argument even less valid when using measurements as the reason.

COMC should have just stuck with his initial assessment.

[cking]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Cool...then the card is legitimate, graded 9.5/10. End of discussion.

Is the centering on this a 10 just because BGS says it is

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Well yes he did buddy...therefore making this trimming argument even less valid when using measurements as the reason.

COMC should have just stuck with his initial assessment.

His initial assessment was wrong.

Cards coming out different sizes doesn’t account for the obvious chipping that’s been trimmed away. They also don’t change size throughout the years (that I know of, maybe COMC can confirm since he’s the expert) so it certainly doesn’t explain the bottom edge either.

Your on an island with this one man. Also, don’t play into TPB’s schtick man...

[usmc03vet]

Originally Posted by cking

Is the centering on this a 10 just because BGS says it is

Buy the card, not the holder...and we are discussing trimmed vs untrimmed & measurements...not centering. Stay on point!

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by ichirorox

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doesn’t matter if BODA gave approval or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is it appears to be trimmed which is just very unfortunate.

Agreed on all counts.

[cking]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Buy the card, not the holder...and we are discussing trimmed vs untrimmed & measurements...not centering. Stay on point!

So yes or no?

Is the card centering a 10 just because BGS says so?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Also, just so we’re clear, you say COMC did an improper job vetting the card yet you’ve “argued” (just a word I know we’re not arguing) that the chips on the right edge could be reflections, that the bottom edge isn’t fully discernible, and that the corners aren’t concrete evidence. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you of the belief this card isn’t actually trimmed? If so, then wouldn’t COMC have done his due diligence when asked?

I am not saying the card isn't trimmed. I am of the belief that the images and techniques used to demonstrate the trimming are inferior to what I would feel comfortable using to make a determination. Simply put, I don't know.

I don't want to argue the due diligence point again, so I will just say this. You can do your due diligence and be wrong. You can also not do your due diligence and be right.

I don't know if you agree, but 312's opinion carries major weight in this hobby. When BODA posts something, it is taken as gospel. And that is why they have been so very careful in making sure that everything they post is well researched and absolutely undeniable. If you're like me, when this all started I was looking at every example being posted and doing my own work to see if I agreed. Now, when I see a post by 312, Dan, or corndog, I don't bother because I have felt I could trust them unequivocally. I was guilty of that here. I looked briefly and agreed with 312 that the left corner was trimmed. But then I was surprised to see this not gain any traction. Are people so numb to this scandal that only a handful of people care about a $500k card being trimmed?

You guys can think what you want of me in questioning 312. I have asked what I think are some very reasonable questions so we can have a discussion about this card. 312 doesn't appear interested in engaging. I fully recognize I am putting my neck out there in disagreeing with 312, and if there are consequences for me, so be it.

[rebbrooks]

Originally Posted by usmc03vet

Well yes he did buddy...therefore making this trimming argument even less valid when using measurements as the reason.

COMC should have just stuck with his initial assessment.

What about the bottom left corner damage, do you think that is photoshopped in? Or something else?