Stupid Question - Do “1st” Bowman’s run through multiple products through the year?

[TaylorLH]

So I’m having a bit of a conversation/debate and can’t seem to find it. I don’t really go hard the prospecting side so I’m not sure on this.

We’re talking Wander Franco. His opinion is a 500 dollar Wander Auto is well worth it and those who aren’t jumping in are going to regret it.

My opinion was that it’s not. He’s signed plenty of stuff already, and I thought that the “1st” ran all year. Meaning the 1st autos in Bowman Megas this spring are going to also be in Bowman Chrome here soon. (Not the Mega Refractor) when Chrome comes out his Auto population is going to double from the unknown 1000s out there now.

I’m not saying he won’t be great or that his 1st Auto may be worth thousands down the line but to me there’s a lot of great cards and options for 500 without the risk of missing expectations, injuries, or otherwise.

[DaveTaplin]

I never thought after Pujols any player would be worth $500. Needless to say I missed the boat on Trout.

That being said in 18 years only 2 players have held a value for a few years of over $500 for a base chrome auto. Sooner or later their will be another but I won't own any. Too much a gamble for me.

Edit: I forgot about Kershaw, so three.

[Cubsfanp]

There has never been the case where a player has multiple Bowman Chrome auto within the same year. Could Wander have a Bowman Chrome auto in 2020? Sure, but it wont have the "1st" label on it.

I agree with your friend.

[reddragonthe]

You have like 3 questions in here to address... these are my opinions.

1. Do "1st Bowman" designations go through multiple products?

FIRST (no pun intended) we have to ignore irregularities. Topps doesn't have a reasonable database, apparently, and isn't aware of who does and doesn't have a "1st" card designation. They have some with an actual 1st card that doesn't get the 1st designation only to have it appear on the next release. So just everyone can save the keystrokes and we all can take a deep breath and admit that they are dummies when it comes to that, seemingly.

With that out of the way... No. It doesn't run through multiple products. The player's first bowman (regardless of 1st being stamped on it) auto and first bowman non-auto will always be the first and carry the longer-term premium. People eventually figure it out even when they screw up the "1st" emblem.

Wander's next bowman hobby release auto will be treated like a 2nd bowman auto of anyone going forward. For good evidence of what this does to value, take a look at what you can get a Vlad 2019 bowman auto for compared to 2016. Just because the releases have the same year designation doesn't make it better. In fact - it may make it worse.

2. Are "all" bowman releases created equal?

Not your exact question but you bring up Mega. Mega to me is a retail release. Topps (here is where I contradict the above) is not dumb. They like money. So they create this odd release that simultaneously carries on a product through (MOST OF) the base checklist that is a hobby flagship and ALSO creating new content that can be plausibly considered new/different (the entirely different auto checklist). So - we can both think it's just a bowman extension and give it all the premium and clout that comes with... but also argue that it's a retail release and not just a parallel continuation of the regular release.

I fall in the camp that it's retail. It's not the same. I don't like it any more than I like Bowman Platinum. Why? Because it's retail only, they don't use the same checklist (even if they use SOME of the same), they don't have the same autos, the autos that are the same are new/different pictures, etc....

I don't think the same autos in Mega end up in Chrome any more than the same autos in Bowman ended up in Mega. I would find it ODD if they use the same autos in Chrome because they used the 2019 Bowman checklist (again, kinda).

3. Should I buy a $500 Wander bowman auto?

Up to you. No real opinion here other than if you do, don't buy the Mega one.

4. Will the proliferation of autos decrease the "value" of autos?

Well, what do you think of getting a piece of jersey in a card? I think yes.

[TaylorLH]

Sorry i may not have asked that correctly. Im saying they released the bowman Mega boxes this spring with the 1st chrome autos of wander. The 2019 Bowman Chrome Hobby comes out in early September. Would that product still have the same checklist/set?

I guess I was under the impression the Bowman Mega Box was just a precursor to the 2019 Bowman Chrome similar to Topps S1/S2 is to Topps Chrome.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by reddragonthe

You have like 3 questions in here to address... these are my opinions.

1. Do "1st Bowman" designations go through multiple products?

FIRST (no pun intended) we have to ignore irregularities. Topps doesn't have a reasonable database, apparently, and isn't aware of who does and doesn't have a "1st" card designation. They have some with an actual 1st card that doesn't get the 1st designation only to have it appear on the next release. So just everyone can save the keystrokes and we all can take a deep breath and admit that they are dummies when it comes to that, seemingly.

With that out of the way... No. It doesn't run through multiple products. The player's first bowman (regardless of 1st being stamped on it) auto and first bowman non-auto will always be the first and carry the longer-term premium. People eventually figure it out even when they screw up the "1st" emblem.

Wander's next bowman hobby release auto will be treated like a 2nd bowman auto of anyone going forward. For good evidence of what this does to value, take a look at what you can get a Vlad 2019 bowman auto for compared to 2016. Just because the releases have the same year designation doesn't make it better. In fact - it may make it worse.

2. Are "all" bowman releases created equal?

Not your exact question but you bring up Mega. Mega to me is a retail release. Topps (here is where I contradict the above) is not dumb. They like money. So they create this odd release that simultaneously carries on a product through (MOST OF) the base checklist that is a hobby flagship and ALSO creating new content that can be plausibly considered new/different (the entirely different auto checklist). So - we can both think it's just a bowman extension and give it all the premium and clout that comes with... but also argue that it's a retail release and not just a parallel continuation of the regular release.

I fall in the camp that it's retail. It's not the same. I don't like it any more than I like Bowman Platinum. Why? Because it's retail only, they don't use the same checklist (even if they use SOME of the same), they don't have the same autos, the autos that are the same are new/different pictures, etc....

I don't think the same autos in Mega end up in Chrome any more than the same autos in Bowman ended up in Mega. I would find it ODD if they use the same autos in Chrome because they used the 2019 Bowman checklist (again, kinda).

3. Should I buy a $500 Wander bowman auto?

Up to you. No real opinion here other than if you do, don't buy the Mega one.

4. Will the proliferation of autos decrease the "value" of autos?

Well, what do you think of getting a piece of jersey in a card? I think yes.

Edit - I re-read your response and seemed to missed your explanation so i think i understand. The 2019 Bowman Chrome Hobby releasing next month may have similar designs but will likely not have another run of Wander Autos in it as these parallel released tend to switch up which autos are available.

Thanks for the write up. So that leads me to want to try and clarify for me. The Wander Autos that are circulating right now are from the Bowman Mega Boxes that were released this spring. Is 2019 Bowman Chrome product releasing in September is the same product with the same checklist (Or very close). I was under the impression outside of the Mega refractor, a Base Chrome Auto pulled from a Mega in May would be the same card as a Base Chrome Auto pulled from a 2019 Bowman Chrome Hobby box in September.

My thought being the population of "1st" Wander autos is due to expand here once Bowman Chrome drops next month.

[mcwildcats]

Originally Posted by reddragonthe

You have like 3 questions in here to address... these are my opinions.

1. Do "1st Bowman" designations go through multiple products?

FIRST (no pun intended) we have to ignore irregularities. Topps doesn't have a reasonable database, apparently, and isn't aware of who does and doesn't have a "1st" card designation. They have some with an actual 1st card that doesn't get the 1st designation only to have it appear on the next release. So just everyone can save the keystrokes and we all can take a deep breath and admit that they are dummies when it comes to that, seemingly.

With that out of the way... No. It doesn't run through multiple products. The player's first bowman (regardless of 1st being stamped on it) auto and first bowman non-auto will always be the first and carry the longer-term premium. People eventually figure it out even when they screw up the "1st" emblem.

Wander's next bowman hobby release auto will be treated like a 2nd bowman auto of anyone going forward. For good evidence of what this does to value, take a look at what you can get a Vlad 2019 bowman auto for compared to 2016. Just because the releases have the same year designation doesn't make it better. In fact - it may make it worse.

2. Are "all" bowman releases created equal?

Not your exact question but you bring up Mega. Mega to me is a retail release. Topps (here is where I contradict the above) is not dumb. They like money. So they create this odd release that simultaneously carries on a product through (MOST OF) the base checklist that is a hobby flagship and ALSO creating new content that can be plausibly considered new/different (the entirely different auto checklist). So - we can both think it's just a bowman extension and give it all the premium and clout that comes with... but also argue that it's a retail release and not just a parallel continuation of the regular release.

I fall in the camp that it's retail. It's not the same. I don't like it any more than I like Bowman Platinum. Why? Because it's retail only, they don't use the same checklist (even if they use SOME of the same), they don't have the same autos, the autos that are the same are new/different pictures, etc....

I don't think the same autos in Mega end up in Chrome any more than the same autos in Bowman ended up in Mega. I would find it ODD if they use the same autos in Chrome because they used the 2019 Bowman checklist (again, kinda).

So, you think it's pretty much a given that the Wander Franco card in the actual upcoming Bowman Chrome release will be different than the Chrome card included in the regular Bowman release? Not doubting you at all, just seems odd that they would de-value the Chrome release by including the first card for such a key prospect in the regular Bowman.

I'm waiting to see how this plays out to determine if I'm going to just stick more to collecting unopened wax of the regular Bowman or do more of the Chrome.

[reddragonthe]

You are confusing how topps and topps chrome work and projecting that to bowman/boeman chrome.

Go back and look at literally any checklist for bowman and bowman chrome. They are different.

The 2019 Bowman mega release was a retail release that had SOME of the same base cards as 2019 Bowman. It had a totally new auto checklist.

Wander had a first bowman auto in 2019 Bowman. The auto in 2019 Mega is not his “first bowman auto” - and as long as we are on the topic, in my mind it won’t be Seth Beer or Freudis Nova’s either.

Wander may or may not have a card in 2019 Bowman Chrome. He may also have an auto (though I doubt it). In both cases they would be DIFFERENT than the 2019 Bowman release and SHOULD NOT be considered “1st Bowman” even if they would inexplicably put the emblem on there.

[Cheddar]

Originally Posted by mcwildcats

So, you think it's pretty much a given that the Wander Franco card in the actual upcoming Bowman Chrome release will be different than the Chrome card included in the regular Bowman release? Not doubting you at all, just seems odd that they would de-value the Chrome release by including the first card for such a key prospect in the regular Bowman.

I'm waiting to see how this plays out to determine if I'm going to just stick more to collecting unopened wax of the regular Bowman or do more of the Chrome.

Regular Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Draft can all be "the best" depending on the given year. In 2016, it's probably Bowman Chrome with Soto/Vlad. In 2017, it's probably regular Bowman with Acuna and Eloy. It all depends on the checklist, and the player's first autographed card will usually be the most sought after for a player. For example, if there does happen to be another Wander auto, it will likely be valued significantly less than the one that came from regular 2019 Bowman.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by mcwildcats

So, you think it's pretty much a given that the Wander Franco card in the actual upcoming Bowman Chrome release will be different than the Chrome card included in the regular Bowman release? Not doubting you at all, just seems odd that they would de-value the Chrome release by including the first card for such a key prospect in the regular Bowman.

I'm waiting to see how this plays out to determine if I'm going to just stick more to collecting unopened wax of the regular Bowman or do more of the Chrome.

Yeah i guess I was under a similar impression. Obviously papers dont carry the same weight as chromes but the mega boxes provided a small set of Chromes and color for the "1st" Wander Auto. I guess I was under the impression that the release next month would still provide the same card base/color "1st" Wander Chrome and theoretically they would have an Auto as well. I guess something ive never looked at was did Topps S1/S2 change the auto checklist when Chrome came out. I mean if so i assume the hype guys are inserted across all variations/products throughout the year to keep hype and sales going.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by reddragonthe

You are confusing how topps and topps chrome work and projecting that to bowman/boeman chrome.

Go back and look at literally any checklist for bowman and bowman chrome. They are different.

The 2019 Bowman mega release was a retail release that had SOME of the same base cards as 2019 Bowman. It had a totally new auto checklist.

Wander had a first bowman auto in 2019 Bowman. The auto in 2019 Mega is not his “first bowman auto” - and as long as we are on the topic, in my mind it won’t be Seth Beer or Freudis Nova’s either.

Wander may or may not have a card in 2019 Bowman Chrome. He may also have an auto (though I doubt it). In both cases they would be DIFFERENT than the 2019 Bowman release and SHOULD NOT be considered “1st Bowman” even if they would inexplicably put the emblem on there.

This is the probably the answer i was looking for. Ill have to see im not a big bowman guy as i just prefer collecting Topps Chrome and established players vs prospecting. So if i had a Wander out of 2019 Bowman Baseball and a non mega refractor out of a 2019 Mega Box their would be a distinguishable difference? and then the 2019 Bowman Chrome would also have a slightly different design?

[mcwildcats]

Originally Posted by Cheddar

Regular Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and Bowman Draft can all be "the best" depending on the given year. In 2016, it's probably Bowman Chrome with Soto/Vlad. In 2017, it's probably regular Bowman with Acuna and Eloy. It all depends on the checklist, and the player's first autographed card will usually be the most sought after for a player. For example, if there does happen to be another Wander auto, it will likely be valued significantly less than the one that came from regular 2019 Bowman.

Got it, thanks for the comments. Looks like it's going to be mostly Regular Bowman for me this year.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by mcwildcats

Got it, thanks for the comments. Looks like it's going to be mostly Regular Bowman for me this year.

Yep I suppose that helps clarify it for me as well. Pretty interesting i wouldve assumed that the Bowman Baseball/Mega box checklist and design would be the same as Bowman Chrome. But its good to know that the few Chrome cards inserted from this spring that included the Wander Chrome Auto could either be excluded or that a Wander Chrome Auto from BB would be a different card from the BC release next month.

[pewe]

Alex Bregman has something like 3 "1st Bowman" autograph cards... 2010, 2011, and 2016

[mcwildcats]

Originally Posted by TaylorLH

Yep I suppose that helps clarify it for me as well. Pretty interesting i wouldve assumed that the Bowman Baseball/Mega box checklist and design would be the same as Bowman Chrome. But its good to know that the few Chrome cards inserted from this spring that included the Wander Chrome Auto could either be excluded or that a Wander Chrome Auto from BB would be a different card from the BC release next month.

Yeah I hear you man, we're on the same wavelength. I'm just getting back into baseball cards after a long hiatus and these other posters sound like they know what they're talking about.

I think the only other question I have on this year's Chrome vs. regular Bowman is I noticed the regular Bowman Guerrero doesn't have the "RC" as I just assume it was released before he played his first game. So, will the Chrome version have an "RC" and be more desirable? That could add to the appeal for Chrome but still not excited about it given the Franco release in regular Bowman.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by mcwildcats

Yeah I hear you man, we're on the same wavelength. I'm just getting back into baseball cards after a long hiatus and these other posters sound like they know what they're talking about.

I think the only other question I have on this year's Chrome vs. regular Bowman is I noticed the regular Bowman Guerrero doesn't have the "RC" as I just assume it was released before he played his first game. So, will the Chrome version have an "RC" and be more desirable? That could add to the appeal for Chrome but still not excited about it given the Franco release in regular Bowman.

Yeah not sure on that. I stick to Topps on the RCs if i can afford to. My thoughts on whether you could still land a "2019 1st Chrome Wander Franco Auto" out of the chrome product seems to be answered so Im probably out. I mean im not paying $500 for it anyway its an extremely aggressive move at least on my budget. Id rather pick up a Trout BC refractor, a big vintage card, or any assortment of other GMMT RCs for the collection vs roll the dice on an auto, hope it grades well, and then watch to see if he turns out to be a generational talent in the same scale as Trout.

[bulljh]

Some people are obsessed with “1st” logo. I don’t get it. I’m one the other end of the spectrum...especially when they screwed it up so often.

[TaylorLH]

Originally Posted by bulljh

Some people are obsessed with “1st” logo. I don’t get it. I’m one the other end of the spectrum...especially when they screwed it up so often.

I dont have a strong opinion on the 1st besides the fact it has a drastic impact on the card markets perceived value. if youre collecting for yourself im right there with you buy an auto other than the 1st for a big discount. But if youre purchasing a card for long term value then the 1st or i suppose subset of firsts make a huge difference.

I dont necessarily care for the prospecting and i still prefer a RC to a 1st. But the original question was geared toward the fact i assumed his "1st" would also be in the Chrome product but apparently the fact he was released in the spring with paper means the only chromes are the ones in Bowman Baseball and any card that comes out in Chrome wont be considered the same.

idk ill stick to the 2 non-autos i have and let the big dawgs eat on the 500-2500 even into 10,000+ dollar Wander Franco Auto card market.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by TaylorLH

I dont have a strong opinion on the 1st besides the fact it has a drastic impact on the card markets perceived value. if youre collecting for yourself im right there with you buy an auto other than the 1st for a big discount. But if youre purchasing a card for long term value then the 1st or i suppose subset of firsts make a huge difference.

I dont necessarily care for the prospecting and i still prefer a RC to a 1st. But the original question was geared toward the fact i assumed his "1st" would also be in the Chrome product but apparently the fact he was released in the spring with paper means the only chromes are the ones in Bowman Baseball and any card that comes out in Chrome wont be considered the same.

idk ill stick to the 2 non-autos i have and let the big dawgs eat on the 500-2500 even into 10,000+ dollar Wander Franco Auto card market.

Yes - I'm glad that those doges eat the MiLB Bowman's 1st cards, while that allows me to feast on MLB RC more cheaply