Jon Lester - HOF? - Page 2

ThoseBackPages · 07-26-2019, 10:59 PM

Sure, why not?

Lovingly,
Harold Baines

rngrdanny22 · 07-26-2019, 11:01 PM

Lester, no.

Markakis? Most definitely.

NinjaJohnny · 07-26-2019, 11:31 PM

Mentioned him earlier in the year as a sneaky outside the box type candidate. He's been really durable and a postseason beast. I think he has a chance, but yes he will need a few more good seasons.

deemsterz33 · 07-27-2019, 12:22 AM

There are good handful of pitchers with similar or better numbers that didn't make it in. I don't see it, but as others have mentioned, the standards have changed.

DaRitz · 07-27-2019, 01:21 AM

I like looking at the Baseball Reference page for this question. Not perfect, but it's something.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...estejo01.shtml

Scroll down past the stats to "Hall of Fame Statistics"

(CalculusDork, I wonder how this compares to your calcs...)

For the HOF standards, he's just short in some areas, and far short in others. But his comparables through age 34 are interesting.

In order: Verlander, Pettitte, Gooden, Hudson, Mussina, Hamels, Smoltz, Oswalt, Bunning, Greinke

So it seems like he's not in today, but isn't far off with a few more strong seasons.

BigL7370 · 07-27-2019, 01:21 AM

There might be a handful of pitchers who may have borderline chances or are on their way - I see them in the same boat, so they can’t be all in?

Lester
Hamels
Greinke
Hernandez - probably not

Sabathia - probably

Scherzer - in
Kershaw - in
Verlander - in

deemsterz33 · 07-27-2019, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaRitz

I like looking at the Baseball Reference page for this question. Not perfect, but it's something.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...estejo01.shtml

Scroll down past the stats to "Hall of Fame Statistics"

(CalculusDork, I wonder how this compares to your calcs...)

For the HOF standards, he's just short in some areas, and far short in others. But his comparables through age 34 are interesting.

In order: Verlander, Pettitte, Gooden, Hudson, Mussina, Hamels, Smoltz, Oswalt, Bunning, Greinke

So it seems like he's not in today, but isn't far off with a few more strong seasons.

On paper he's more of a Hudson than a Mussina or Smoltz

deemsterz33 · 07-27-2019, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

After this years HOF joke I say they all get in.
Mo Rivera the first unanimous vote??? Seriously it’s a freaking joke that Mays, Ruth, Williams, and so many more weren’t unanimous already. Baines and Mussina getting in prove that it’s now the Hall of Really Good. It’s lost it’s mystique for me.
So yeah, why not put Lester in. He was a good big game pitcher for two Curse breakers. Let him in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FWIW Mariano was the GOAT closer. But yeah, all those others that you mentioned should have been unanimous.

OC22 · 07-27-2019, 03:16 AM

Banner member of the Hall of Very Good

66_Fiat · 07-27-2019, 03:25 AM

HoF a la Jack Morris if he doesn't fall off a cliff the next three years. Straight writers HoF? No, not right now.

He was too overshadowed by exceptional talent almost every year. Almost atune to Raines under Rickey, but not near as close.

Talent and dedication is there, just need a nice swan song before retirement.

awz50 · 07-27-2019, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Sure, why not?

Lovingly,
Harold Baines

Just cause it happens doesn't mean it's right

awz50 · 07-27-2019, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66_Fiat

HoF a la Jack Morris if he doesn't fall off a cliff the next three years. Straight writers HoF? No, not right now.

He was too overshadowed by exceptional talent almost every year. Almost atune to Raines under Rickey, but not near as close.

Talent and dedication is there, just need a nice swan song before retirement.

If he isn't a straight path hof he isn't a hof

66_Fiat · 07-27-2019, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awz50

If he isn't a straight path hof he isn't a hof

We're on the same page, but I can see him voted in down the road due to accolades and above average longevity.

I think he needs at least two more top 5 CY finishes before he retires to be heavily considered.

rman112 · 07-27-2019, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

FWIW Mariano was the GOAT closer. But yeah, all those others that you mentioned should have been unanimous.

The thing that made him special was the longevity. There have been so many closers that have dominated for only 2 or 3 years, then they're done.

jhssketchcards · 07-27-2019, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

FWIW Mariano was the GOAT closer. But yeah, all those others that you mentioned should have been unanimous.

Luis Gonzalez didn’t think so. JK lol
I agree Mo deserves the unanimous, just a joke that he’s the only one. These writers are idiots.
They use their pens and tablets as judgement seats. I do not believe Lester is a HOFer. He’s a good pitcher at times great, but benefited being on great teams. My point is since some door knobs are in, no telling who will be next to them. One day we get a Ken Griffey Jr, Cal Ripken or Derek Jeter, the next we get Harold Baines, Barry Larkin and Jim Rice. Before anyone goes off about Rice or Larkin I love those guys just using them as a range of the ATG and the others.
NO ONE would put the last three in their top 10 all-time at their positions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

calculusdork · 07-27-2019, 08:33 AM

123precision · 07-27-2019, 09:39 AM

No. Lester is a HOICBHRCIADB - Hall of I Can Buy His Rookie Card in a Dollar Bin.

Sent from my moto g(6) (XT1925DL) using Tapatalk

babybull · 07-27-2019, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricFozz

I'll keep this quick... So, Jon Lester has never been flashy, but he has been spectacularly consistent for his career. Career ERA around 3.5, nearing 200 wins, and 2500 SOs, and three World Series titles under his belt. Only two losing seasons, and he had a 3.34 ERA in one of them! Since 2008, he has started no fewer than 31 games.

I'm not crazy to think he's on the brink of the HOF, right? I feel like another solid season to get him to 200 wins, and that might do it.

Is this a serious question?

88horsepower · 07-27-2019, 09:53 AM

When David Cone gets in, then I’ll consider Lester.

teosdesserts · 07-27-2019, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Lester, no.

Markakis? Most definitely.

HarryLime · 07-27-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigL7370

There might be a handful of pitchers who may have borderline chances or are on their way - I see them in the same boat, so they can’t be all in?

Lester
Hamels
Greinke
Hernandez - probably not

Sabathia - probably

Scherzer - in
Kershaw - in
Verlander - in

I think both Greinke and Sabathia are in. Greinke has sneaky great career numbers.

Arthur

rman112 · 07-27-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calculusdork

His ratio of being good to having the yips is pretty amazing.

rman112 · 07-27-2019, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think both Greinke and Sabathia are in. Greinke has sneaky great career numbers.

Arthur

Sneaky 35, too. Doesn't seem like it.

Greinke's biggest issue is probably that he's so up and down. He followed up his CY in KC with a 10-14/4.17 ERA, and then his runner up 2015 year with a 13-7/4.37 ERA year. With how little he relies of velocity though, he could easily put together a few more really good years.

scotthenrichs · 07-27-2019, 11:14 AM

Lester 182 wins, 3.52 ERA, 2473 IP, 15 CG, 2295 K, 45.9 WAR
Halladay 203 wins, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 68 CG, 2117 K, 40.4 WAR

Lester needs a little more work, but he isn’t too far off in total stats, really.

LC2nine10 · 07-27-2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotthenrichs

Lester 182 wins, 3.52 ERA, 2473 IP, 15 CG, 2295 K, 45.9 WAR
Halladay 203 wins, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 68 CG, 2117 K, 40.4 WAR

Lester needs a little more work, but he isn’t too far off in total stats, really.

The dying helped i think, people were all emotional.

07-26-2019, 10:59 PM	#26
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,347 ThoseBackPages	Sure, why not? Lovingly, Harold Baines __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards Last edited by ThoseBackPages; 07-26-2019 at 11:32 PM.

07-27-2019, 03:16 AM	#34
OC22 Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 1,500 jimmyz86	Banner member of the Hall of Very Good __________________ Most Wanted: 2019 Stadium Club Jose Berrios Gold Foil 1/1 2018 Stadium Club Archie Bradley Gold Foil 1/1 www.ZelePhotography.com

07-27-2019, 03:25 AM	#35
66_Fiat Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Marysville, OH Posts: 3,168	HoF a la Jack Morris if he doesn't fall off a cliff the next three years. Straight writers HoF? No, not right now. He was too overshadowed by exceptional talent almost every year. Almost atune to Raines under Rickey, but not near as close. Talent and dedication is there, just need a nice swan song before retirement. __________________ There is a difference between best hitter and best player. Paying nicely for 2013 and 2015 TTT Pujols "The Machine" patches!

07-26-2019, 11:01 PM	#27
rngrdanny22 Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 12,372	Lester, no. Markakis? Most definitely.

07-26-2019, 11:31 PM	#28
NinjaJohnny Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Ohio Posts: 429	Mentioned him earlier in the year as a sneaky outside the box type candidate. He's been really durable and a postseason beast. I think he has a chance, but yes he will need a few more good seasons.

07-27-2019, 12:22 AM	#29
deemsterz33 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,927 phunkified	There are good handful of pitchers with similar or better numbers that didn't make it in. I don't see it, but as others have mentioned, the standards have changed.

07-27-2019, 01:21 AM	#30
DaRitz Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: VA Posts: 1,101	I like looking at the Baseball Reference page for this question. Not perfect, but it's something. https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...estejo01.shtml Scroll down past the stats to "Hall of Fame Statistics" (CalculusDork, I wonder how this compares to your calcs...) For the HOF standards, he's just short in some areas, and far short in others. But his comparables through age 34 are interesting. In order: Verlander, Pettitte, Gooden, Hudson, Mussina, Hamels, Smoltz, Oswalt, Bunning, Greinke So it seems like he's not in today, but isn't far off with a few more strong seasons.

07-27-2019, 01:21 AM	#31
BigL7370 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,062	There might be a handful of pitchers who may have borderline chances or are on their way - I see them in the same boat, so they can’t be all in? Lester Hamels Greinke Hernandez - probably not Sabathia - probably Scherzer - in Kershaw - in Verlander - in

07-27-2019, 08:33 AM	#41
calculusdork Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Nowheresville Posts: 26,683 calculusdork calculusdork

07-27-2019, 09:39 AM	#42
123precision Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Arkansas Posts: 433 123precision	No. Lester is a HOICBHRCIADB - Hall of I Can Buy His Rookie Card in a Dollar Bin. Sent from my moto g(6) (XT1925DL) using Tapatalk

07-27-2019, 09:53 AM	#44
88horsepower Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Somewhere In Time Posts: 23,824	When David Cone gets in, then I’ll consider Lester.

07-27-2019, 11:14 AM	#49
scotthenrichs Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,603 henrichs_1 Sah0620	Lester 182 wins, 3.52 ERA, 2473 IP, 15 CG, 2295 K, 45.9 WAR Halladay 203 wins, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 68 CG, 2117 K, 40.4 WAR Lester needs a little more work, but he isn’t too far off in total stats, really.