PWCC Auction Archive vs. eBay Market Price Research for "Unpaid" items

[tconte]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The next step is to take these cards, run the PSA serial # obtained through the PWCC Auction Archive, and see where the card sold next.

$132,151.00 Jul 18, 2016 1963 Topps Pete Rose ROOKIE RC #537 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC) 1***n

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1307973

Sold for $55,200 in August 2017 through Heritage.

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...uction/112952/

Oh boy! You guys trying to put a down arrow on the PWCC 100 Index?
I mean we need data that outshines the S&P 500.

This can't be good throwing monkey wrenches into exhausting data collection
by PWCC.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Is this where I should post the dozen or so 86 Fleer PSA 8 and 9 complete sets Robert Block purchased from PWCC alone? Lol.

Do you mean "formerly" PSA 8's and 9's?

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by pspa123

And let's not overlook the possibility of shill bidding running up items that actually were paid for. Much to consider here.

Right. How many of those masked accounts listed by Bruins were created for the express purpose of driving up prices?

There could be a lot more victims out there than just those holding altered cards created by Brent & co.

[SetBuilder]

I wonder if the investors buying PWCC's unregistered promissory notes know that a portion of their revenue is fake?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

And here's all the whitman111 "winnings." Anybody at eBay want to check if those bids were placed from Long Island or from somewhere else in the country?

$9,600.00 Oct 12, 2016 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-HE) w***1

I think I found a good one!

Here's the October 2016 sale.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1362239

Here's a September 2017 sale. Look at the back.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1540869

Sorry if corndog already found this one.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I wonder if the investors buying PWCC's unregistered promissory notes know that a portion of their revenue is fake?

I asked something along the same lines. What recourse do these investors have after the uncovering of all this?

[superdan49]

Now if only there were a financial reporter with a deep interest in the hobby who wrote for a respected publication like, oh, I don't know, let's say Forbes, who could help shine a light on this huge potential story.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I asked something along the same lines. What recourse do these investors have after the uncovering of all this?

I don't know, but if PWCC is cooking their books, the SEC needs to step in immediately.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I understand. But why does the Wilson Franks Ted Williams still show up when you search for it on eBay?

To be clear, I do believe you have uncovered something. I am just trying to make sure all the bases are covered here.

I can not speak for the eBay accounting on the Wilson Franks Ted Williams.

On my personal eBay account, I just ran an eBay search with title of an item # I know was sold on June 11, 2019 (never paid for) along with a cancellation request submitted to eBay (by seller) on June 11, 2019. That item is presently displaying on a sold listings search (check marked sold) with June 11, 2019 date of sale on the advanced eBay search page. Along with the cancellation eBay reversed the final value fee so no commission was paid to eBay. This was a book that I would not mail to Canada in case anyone is wondering

I just called eBay and spoke with someone in sales. The sales rep. said cancelled sale listings are usually removed by the system after 10 days unless there is a glitch. Additionally I asked the sales rep if a cancelled item was considered "unpaid" from an analytics standpoint and they said "yes".

I will be first to admit I can call eBay five times and get five different answers.

[KhalDrogo]

Thanks Bruins!

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I don't know, but if PWCC is cooking their books, the SEC needs to step in immediately.

Isn't PWCC privately held? I don't think the SEC can do anything.

The IRS on the other hand...

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Isn't PWCC privately held? I don't think the SEC can do anything.

The IRS on the other hand...

The SEC has jurisdiction over all U.S. based entities, public or private.

[ninjacookies]

Ebay has fostered shill bidders and bidders with suspicious bidding activity for the longest and refused to take any action. There's literally hundreds of threads on this.

The more interesting aspect is if (and I've suspected it for the longest) PWCC created their own shill accounts to inflate market value and raise baseline values of singles, thus driving more people to list with them and increasing their final value revenue.


The well goes deep.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Isn't PWCC privately held? I don't think the SEC can do anything.

The IRS on the other hand...

I’m not sure if the SEC would specifically have jurisdiction over PWCC’s offering, but they do have jurisdiction over some aspects of private company financial offerings.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Ebay has fostered shill bidders and bidders with suspicious bidding activity for the longest and refused to take any action. There's literally hundreds of threads on this.

The more interesting aspect is if (and I've suspected it for the longest) PWCC created their own shill accounts to inflate market value and raise baseline values of singles, thus driving more people to list with them and increasing their final value revenue.


The well goes deep.

Hmmm... I was always told it was just people spending up for nice cards, and all those bidding histories were not suspicious.

[rngrdanny22]

I bet if you look hard enough at any of the consignors, you're going to find similar stuff. None of them have a way to prevent the card owners from bidding up their own cards. A lot of those no-pays were probably the original card owner getting a little too greedy trying to boost their own crap.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

I bet if you look hard enough at any of the consignors, you're going to find similar stuff. None of them have a way to prevent the card owners from bidding up their own cards. A lot of those no-pays were probably the original card owner getting a little too greedy trying to boost their own crap.

Yeah like the guy who apparently won but did not pay for 30 items over a one year period. Nothing they could have done.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Ebay has fostered shill bidders and bidders with suspicious bidding activity for the longest and refused to take any action. There's literally hundreds of threads on this.

The more interesting aspect is if (and I've suspected it for the longest) PWCC created their own shill accounts to inflate market value and raise baseline values of singles, thus driving more people to list with them and increasing their final value revenue.


The well goes deep.

I'm sure a subpoena for these eBay records is in the works. All true identities for the masked eBay ID's found on Vintage Card Prices for the unpaid auctions listed here in Post #27 will be the key to determining the criminality of this.

Also, could this also constitute fraud against eBay? After all, they wouldn't get their commission for any unpaid auctions, right?

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I'm sure a subpoena for these eBay records is in the works. All true identities for the masked eBay ID's found on Vintage Card Prices for the unpaid auctions listed here in Post #27 will be the key to determining the criminality of this.

Also, could this also constitute fraud against eBay? After all, they wouldn't get their commission for any unpaid auctions, right?

Ebay probably makes enough from Brentsy that they aren't going to do a damn thing.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Yeah like the guy who apparently won but did not pay for 30 items over a one year period. Nothing they could have done.

Those 30 items (Jun 14, 2015 to Nov 14, 2016) from that bidder ID total $717,035.79

[KhalDrogo]

Love it that PWCC’s own website, which is centered around their own self-embellishment, continues to be their undoing.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Love it that PWCC’s own website, which is centered around their own self-embellishment, continues to be their undoing.

It's rich.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Yeah like the guy who apparently won but did not pay for 30 items over a one year period. Nothing they could have done.

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Those 30 items (Jun 14, 2015 to Nov 14, 2016) from that bidder ID total $717,035.79

I agree that they should have done something, no doubt. I was just pointing out that this type of behavior likely occurs with all the big names. I'd hope they take action when they find this type of stuff though.



As an aside, how do you all think PWCC Capital works with all this? They allow payment plans after the end of the auction and various other ways to cover the cost of a purchase. If one of these options are chosen, does PWCC just lets the non-payment occur? I'd think not, but heck, they may have created Capital as a front for covering this stuff up.

Inquisitive mind: Hey Brent, how come someone had 30 non-payments?

Brent: Oh, that person paid through Capital, and not eBay. Those were paid for, trust us.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Those 30 items (Jun 14, 2015 to Nov 14, 2016) from that bidder ID total $717,035.79

Yes I remember discussing him specifically with Brent, and several others as well. I had no idea at the time though that these auctions were (apparently) not paid for, I just was very skeptical of many of the prices.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Inquisitive mind: Hey Brent, how come someone had 30 non-payments?

Brent: Oh, that person paid through Capital, and not eBay. Those were paid for, trust us.

I can think of legitimate reasons why someone may have had 30 non-payments. The winner may have already won and paid for a substantial number of auctions already. The winner may be a VIP.

But could the auctions have been paid for outside of eBay and only reported as not being paid there? Might be a stretch, but given everything else that's been happening, it isn't much of a stretch to seriously consider.