PWCC Auction Archive vs. eBay Market Price Research for "Unpaid" items

[corndog]

1***n and g***c were the masked ID's on at least two of the auctions won (two wins each on separate dates)

[Bruins1993]

-314 VCP bidder ID's were attached to list of 396, not all bidder ID's were attempted including most modern.
-Sorted by bidder ID and date, primarily and secondary, respectively.
-Removed bidder ID's not repeating.
239 items remained that show repeat bidder ID's (two or more).
$4,959,843.10 Total for 239 items.

46 Unique Bidder ID's (per VCP) amount per each:

1) $123,515.88

2) $85,075.00

3) $156,192.50

4) $503,170.23

5) $109,103.00

6) $186,700.77

7) $31,950.00

8) $44,022.00

9) $67,610.00

10) $28,301.00

11) $46,801.00

12) $63,122.00

13) $141,568.90

14) $81,393.65

15) $51,491.00

16) $36,902.00

17) $80,852.00

18) $26,392.33

19) $717,035.79

20) $21,075.00

21) $38,037.32

22) $37,254.19

23) $118,447.79

24) $42,300.00

25) $39,801.00

26) $47,006.99

27) $131,576.00

28) $27,643.00

29) $138,286.09

30) $15,930.77

31) $16,602.00

32) $137,132.00

33) $20,459.00

34) $134,194.00

35) $80,366.53

36) $29,055.00

37) $52,300.00

38) $174,533.00

39) $367,756.99

40) $87,501.00

41) $39,697.00

42) $122,988.34

43) $56,399.99

44) $207,244.00

45) $150,097.05

46) $23,003.00

How many of these were utilizing alternative forms of payment or advances on future consignments driving the market prices up?

[Treadstone]

Hmmm. The unmasking of the 2016 cabal begins...

[KhalDrogo]

Before we go down the rabbit hole, can someone please address this? I was under the impression that eBay removed struck unpaid items from the sales record. Is that not true? Does a certain amount of time have to pass? Does the seller actually have to open an unpaid item claim?

So in this instance does the discrepancy exist because the item was never paid for, but also not marked as unpaid?

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I asked because this one still shows up under PWCC's Auction Archive and eBay's completed sales through the eBay filter, but not under PWCC's Market Price Research.

$14,989.00 06/11/19 1954 Wilson Franks Ted Williams PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-A)

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...&LH_Complete=1

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2009002

Since the Market Price Research tool was released, it was apparent that it was not capturing all of the sales. But we have not been able to determine why that is.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Hmmm. The unmasking of the 2016 cabal begins...

And I thought all that was just people paying up for nice cards. So I was told.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Hmmm. The unmasking of the 2016 cabal begins...

Precisely this.

[superdan49]

And here's all the whitman111 "winnings." Anybody at eBay want to check if those bids were placed from Long Island or from somewhere else in the country?

$11,613.56 Jun 12, 2016 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,322.22 Aug 2, 2016 1961 Fleer Basketball Jerry West ROOKIE RC #43 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$9,600.00 Oct 12, 2016 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,313.13 Dec 18, 2016 1953 Parkhurst Jean Beliveau ROOKIE RC #27 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,523.23 Mar 12, 2017 1909-11 T206 SETBREAK Cy Young PORTRAIT PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC) w***1
$9,012.55 Mar 12, 2017 1909-11 T206 SETBREAK Ty Cobb BAT OFF SHOULDER PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$13,433.33 May 17, 2017 1958 Topps Football Jim Brown ROOKIE RC #62 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC) w***1
$7,601.00 Jun 6, 2017 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb BAT ON SHOULDER PSA 5 EX (PWCC) w***1
$21,109.00 Jul 9, 2017 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 SGC 7/84 NRMT (PWCC) w***1
$7,877.00 Jul 9, 2017 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 BVG Altered (PWCC) w***1
$20,255.00 Sep 11, 2017 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #181 SGC 7.5/86 NRMT+ (PWCC-HE) w***1
$31,278.99 Oct 9, 2017 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 SGC 7/84 NRMT (PWCC) w***1
$33,326.99 Oct 10, 2017 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle SHORT PRINT #82 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,988.00 Nov 13, 2017 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 SGC 6.5/82 EXMT+ (PWCC) w***1
$7,990.00 Dec 10, 2017 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb RED PORTRAIT PSA 5 EX (PWCC-HE) w***1

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Since the Market Price Research tool was released, it was apparent that it was not capturing all of the sales. But we have not been able to determine why that is.

"Unpaid items are flagged and removed from the database since they don’t represent a true sale on the marketplace."



A list of "Unpaid items" $7,000.00 and above was generated from the data of items displaying in the PWCC Auction Archive (https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/sales-history) that did not display on the eBay Market Price Research tool powered by eBay.

[mulhall777]

This is about to get really interesting...

[rcmb3220]

I posted this on CU in December 2016. The card (89 hoops David Robinson PSA 10) sold for $470 on 12/12/16 as shown in the PWCC auction archives. About 5x the going rate at the time. It is not listed in the eBay market price research tool. Notice toward the bottom that Betsy responds directly stating that the auction did get paid for. With lots of superfluous details to boot. Small potatoes compared to the other cards listed here but worth pointing out considering the response from PWCC.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...t-get-paid-for

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

"Unpaid items are flagged and removed from the database since they don’t represent a true sale on the marketplace."

I understand. But why does the Wilson Franks Ted Williams still show up when you search for it on eBay?

To be clear, I do believe you have uncovered something. I am just trying to make sure all the bases are covered here.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

I posted this on CU in December 2016. The card sold for $470 on 12/12/16 as shown in the PWCC auction archives. About 5x the going rate at the time. It is not listed in the eBay market price research tool. Notice toward the bottom that Betsy responds directly stating that the auction did get paid for. With lots of superfluous details to boot. Small potatoes compared to the other cards listed here but worth pointing out considering the response from PWCC.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...t-get-paid-for

Thank you!

I am going to start searching for some of the big vintage to see if I can find any discussions of the sales.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by superdan49

It depends on the eBay bidder IDs. If all these items were bid up and not paid by all different accounts, then likely not a scam.

However, if the same eBay bidders were bidding these items up and they went unpaid then then the smoke becomes a five-alarm fire. Then the serious questions begin.

I consider this wishful thinking. People actually look at auction winners, a real manipulator(s) would use multiple IDs or wouldn’t be a good manipulator by definition!

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I understand. But why does the Wilson Franks Ted Williams still show up when you search for it on eBay?

To be clear, I do believe you have uncovered something. I am just trying to make sure all the bases are covered here.

It’s on eBay’s site because it’s a recently ended auction. It’s not on the eBay market price research tool on PWCC’s site. Must be a time requirement for sales to be flagged as unpaid.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

It’s on eBay’s site because it’s a recently ended auction. It’s not on the eBay market price research tool on PWCC’s site. Must be a time requirement for sales to be flagged as unpaid.

That's my assumption as well. Maybe ebay removes items from the market price tool at a certain point, but not from completed sales using ebay itself which only go back so far?

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

I posted this on CU in December 2016. The card (89 hoops David Robinson PSA 10) sold for $470 on 12/12/16 as shown in the PWCC auction archives. About 5x the going rate at the time. It is not listed in the eBay market price research tool. Notice toward the bottom that Betsy responds directly stating that the auction did get paid for. With lots of superfluous details to boot. Small potatoes compared to the other cards listed here but worth pointing out considering the response from PWCC.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...t-get-paid-for

Great work back then as the veil slowly began to be lifted.

"We see nothing wrong here, two big shillers *cough cough* I MEAN BUYERS! of our auctions were going head to head and they just loved this 10 because it presented so much better than all other 10's on the market! I mean, it's obvious they loved the card 5x as much. Right.....right?" - Betsy

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

It’s on eBay’s site because it’s a recently ended auction. It’s not on the eBay market price research tool on PWCC’s site. Must be a time requirement for sales to be flagged as unpaid.

Originally Posted by pspa123

That's my assumption as well.

I think that is the most likely explanation. Thank you.

These are the only three $50k+ from the VCP bidder ID list that show up on the PSA website as confirmed sales. The rest are missing.

$67,956.00 Aug 10, 2017 1952 Topps Eddie Mathews ROOKIE RC #407 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***m

$50,801.00 Oct 13, 2016 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle SHORT PRINT #82 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) g***c

$50,401.18 Oct 13, 2016 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente ROOKIE RC #164 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) 1***n

[mc1]

Oh man, so the 1986 Fleer Johnny Moore PSA 10 wasnt really a 12k card?! Whod thunk it?!

I see lots of 1986 PSA 10 Jordans too.

[tconte]

No surprise on the 1986 Jordans. With that and wondering how many of the 10's are trimmed and
who knows the real deal with that card. lol

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by tconte

No surprise on the 1986 Jordans. With that and wondering how many of the 10's are trimmed and
who knows the real deal with that card. lol

And let's not overlook the possibility of shill bidding running up items that actually were paid for. Much to consider here.

[signed79]

Originally Posted by superdan49

And here's all the whitman111 "winnings." Anybody at eBay want to check if those bids were placed from Long Island or from somewhere else in the country?

$11,613.56 Jun 12, 2016 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,322.22 Aug 2, 2016 1961 Fleer Basketball Jerry West ROOKIE RC #43 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$9,600.00 Oct 12, 2016 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,313.13 Dec 18, 2016 1953 Parkhurst Jean Beliveau ROOKIE RC #27 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,523.23 Mar 12, 2017 1909-11 T206 SETBREAK Cy Young PORTRAIT PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC) w***1
$9,012.55 Mar 12, 2017 1909-11 T206 SETBREAK Ty Cobb BAT OFF SHOULDER PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$13,433.33 May 17, 2017 1958 Topps Football Jim Brown ROOKIE RC #62 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC) w***1
$7,601.00 Jun 6, 2017 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb BAT ON SHOULDER PSA 5 EX (PWCC) w***1
$21,109.00 Jul 9, 2017 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 SGC 7/84 NRMT (PWCC) w***1
$7,877.00 Jul 9, 2017 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 BVG Altered (PWCC) w***1
$20,255.00 Sep 11, 2017 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #181 SGC 7.5/86 NRMT+ (PWCC-HE) w***1
$31,278.99 Oct 9, 2017 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle ROOKIE RC #253 SGC 7/84 NRMT (PWCC) w***1
$33,326.99 Oct 10, 2017 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle SHORT PRINT #82 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-HE) w***1
$8,988.00 Nov 13, 2017 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 SGC 6.5/82 EXMT+ (PWCC) w***1
$7,990.00 Dec 10, 2017 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb RED PORTRAIT PSA 5 EX (PWCC-HE) w***1

About $200,000 of "winnings" and still allowed to cosign and bid.....

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by signed79

About $200,000 of "winnings" and still allowed to cosign and bid.....

see Dan's question above.

[KhalDrogo]

The next step is to take these cards, run the PSA serial # obtained through the PWCC Auction Archive, and see where the card sold next.

$132,151.00 Jul 18, 2016 1963 Topps Pete Rose ROOKIE RC #537 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC) 1***n

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1307973

Sold for $55,200 in August 2017 through Heritage.

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...uction/112952/

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The next step is to take these cards, run the PSA serial # obtained through the PWCC Auction Archive, and see where the card sold next.

$132,151.00 Jul 18, 2016 1963 Topps Pete Rose ROOKIE RC #537 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC) 1***n

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1307973

Sold for $55,200 in August 2017 through Heritage.

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...uction/112952/

Nice ROI.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by tconte

No surprise on the 1986 Jordans. With that and wondering how many of the 10's are trimmed and
who knows the real deal with that card. lol

Is this where I should post the dozen or so 86 Fleer PSA 8 and 9 complete sets Robert Block purchased from PWCC alone? Lol.