Issue with PSA

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

I have a valuable card in a PSA slab that needs re-holdering. Does this mean they'd charge me thousands of dollars to do so, or is it only for new grades?

REHOLDER *Re-encapsulation of PSA-graded trading cards
Expedited service for a declared value of $500,000 or more (Includes Jumbo Holder)
$500
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Expedited service for a declared value of $100,000 to $499,000 (Includes Jumbo Holder)
$250
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Expedited service for a declared value of $20,000 to $99,000 (Includes Jumbo Holder)
$100
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 1 Business Day
Expedited service for a declared value under $20,000 (Includes Jumbo Holder)
$50
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: 10 Business Days
Standard turnaround for a declared value under $20,000 (Includes Jumbo Holder) T3 & Supersized holders must be submitted at this service level or higher.
$35
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: Varies by demand
Standards turnaround for Jumbo holders with a declared value under $5,000.
$30
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: Varies by demand
Standard turnaround for a declared value under $5,000. Standard & Tallboy holders only.
$8
ESTIMATED TURNAROUND: Varies by demand

https://www.psacard.com/fees/

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

I feel like if you pay the premium they're more likely to give you a better grade. Maybe not but that's how it feels like the system is set up.

As I've pointed out with the 1993 Jeter, they're not doing that. Keep throwing shade for no reason.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

My whole thing about paying more for different valued cards is i feel like you're buying the grade and i don't think that's right.

Has anyone ever been partially refunded by PSA because they thought the person who submitted the cards deemed them overvalued and paid too much?

I mean there's such a dramatic difference in value from a PSA 8-10 in some cases. It could be 10's of thousands.

I feel like if you pay the premium they're more likely to give you a better grade. Maybe not but that's how it feels like the system is set up.

I definitely like PSA slabs better and that they sell for more in general on the secondary market. But, i like how BGS charges a flat fee for grading it's not a tiered value system.

99% of the time people aren't going to be involved in a scenario where they're grading a card that's over $500 or $700. Or whatever estimated dollar amount it is that you jump up into that next category that's more then $20 per graded card.

I have been several times though and it's quite frustrating when the card comes back N6 even though it's already graded by BGS. They were crossover attempts. I just figured it was because i didn't pay the $2000 or $3000 they wanted. They never called me though so who knows.

[mindcycle]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

You know it's getting real bad when even the grading companies are trying to extort people for money on picture cards.

Yeah man, I agree. I respect wanting to grade cards that are often faked, or maybe for protection sake. But it’s becoming a bit ridiculous IMO. That’s why my PC is 90% ungraded I guess. Between sellers trying to get a huge premium, and now grading companies wanting a cut, it’s gotten out of hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

As I've pointed out with the 1993 Jeter, they're not doing that. Keep throwing shade for no reason.

I'm not throwing shade i actually like PSA slabs. I just don't like the tiered grading fees. They don't need to do it.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

As I've pointed out with the 1993 Jeter, they're not doing that. Keep throwing shade for no reason.

Let's look at your example again.

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

You guys claiming that PSA is doing this to extort fail to remember that only like 20 of the thousands of 1993 SP Derek Jeters grade a 10. Since they now sell for $100K each, why isn't every 1993 SP Jeter grading a 10 yet? They could make millions in additional fees!!!

Couldn't have thrown any more hyperbole in this if you tried.

Charging based on the graded declared value introduces bias. I do not even have to go so far as to argue that graders intentionally upgrade so that higher fees can be collected. If a decision you make can benefit the company who pays you, it's human nature to make that decision in the company's favor. These people are human. No part of grading is objective. Not even centering for most cards.

[RogerGodahell]

And if we want to take this even further i've said this before and i truly believe it. PSA grades cards more lenient when they're new. For example a RC that's sent in within the first few years after it's printed will have a better chance of getting a better grade then it will 10 years from now if it's a special card.

After they start becoming extremely valuable they get way tougher on the grading certain cards. I've seen it first hand with Tom Brady rookie cards that i've personally owned. They tightened up the grading requirements. Cards that would have easily graded 9's and 9.5's 10 years ago that are in the same exact condition today now grade as PSA 7's and 8's. You see it with LeBron cards too.

[cardmole]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

And if we want to take this even further i've said this before and i truly believe it. PSA grades cards more lenient when they're new. For example a RC that's sent in within the first few years after it's printed will have a better chance of getting a better grade then it will 10 years from now if it's a special card.

After they start becoming extremely valuable they get way tougher on the grading certain cards. I've seen it first hand with Tom Brady rookie cards that i've personally owned. They tightened up the grading requirements. Cards that would have easily graded 9's and 9.5's 10 years ago that are in the same exact condition today now grade as PSA 7's and 8's. You see it with LeBron cards too.

Another indictment of grading companies.
If you're a collector, just trust your own judgement.
If you play the flip game and get gamed, tough luck.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by cardmole

Another indictment of grading companies.
If you're a collector, just trust your own judgement.
If you play the flip game and get gamed, tough luck.

VERY tough to do online.

most ebay sellers cannot be bothered to send 8-10 high-res scans upon request

[cking]

Its funny that they have time to look up auction prices so they can upcharge you.

But they dont have time to properly measure cards to make sure they are not trimmed.

Has BGS or PSA made any attempt at all to answer the questions presented to them involving the issue of them grading trimmed cards?

[theautographguy]

I find this whole thread preposterous to be honest. I've had an in person account with PSA for almost 10 years. This policy always been in affect but people always try to get away with murder cause they say they don't like the policy. I agree with the guy who said if u don't like it go somewhere else. I don't like the policy but I work with it. It's their policy, I cant change it. But trying to cheat the policy and then getting upset after is ridiculous to me.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by cardmole

Another indictment of grading companies.
If you're a collector, just trust your own judgement.
If you play the flip game and get gamed, tough luck.

I don't own any of those cards anymore but i got to tell you it's tough when you see the difference of a .5 grade meaning 10's of thousands of dollars for 1 card. I actually made out well i doubled up on the Brady's that i owned but i sure would have loved to sell a couple for 20 or $30k more then they sold for with a .5 bump. That's how crazy the price differences can be on a single high end card.

[jj2]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I’ve heard PSA used to not charge when the minimum wasn’t met.

Charging based on the value after the grade is assigned is a clear conflict of interest. Anyone with highly desired, low pop, high grade cards should be appalled at this practice.

100% agree. This is such a bad look in my opinion. These people are being paid to give a card a grade, which should be completely impartial in the eyes of collectors. How can PSA be completely impartial when there's a lot of money on the line when better grades are assigned?

I don't mind that there's some additional fees for shipping etc on an expensive card, but 1k on a 12k card is extortion. I can't believe anyone would defend this. Is this real life?

Originally Posted by rats60

Don't use them. Use another company, pay less and sell you cards for even less. This is America. Companies set their own rules. If you don't like it, don't use them. However, the one thing you absolutely cannot do is tell them how to run their company.

Lol, customers, either directly or indirectly, inform how companies are run every single day.

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The insurance fees are exorbitant then.

$30000 card? $3000 fee.
$12000 card? $1000 fee.
$7000 card? $500 fee.
$750 card? $75 fee.

I have my wife’s engagement ring insured through USAA for 2% of the value annually. I know there are grading costs and shipping costs associated with these fees also, but those costs are huge for the high-end stuff. Especially when you consider how few cards are subsequently deemed not worthy of the grade, fake, or altered.

How many cards a year do you think fall into that guarantee? I’ve been here almost two years and hve yet to come across a post where a member needed to use that guarantee.

Lol at anyone who thinks those are acceptable rates because of insurance and shipping. Your house insurance is probably woks out cheaper than that.

[cardmole]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

VERY tough to do online.

most ebay sellers cannot be bothered to send 8-10 high-res scans upon request

Understood, but I was mostly referring to raw cards already in one's collection.

[imbluestreak23]

I've never experienced anything like that despite myself being liberal with what I send. For example, I recently sent in a Patrick Mahomes NT Triple Auto /99 (raw value = $350 once logged, crept to $550 once graded) that slabbed a PSA 10. PSA 10 value is likely $1500-$2000. It was in my bulk submission as an $8 fee.

However, I send them plenty of $1 cards in the same order so I feel as though it evens out. I would push back as yours truly is BS.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The insurance fees are exorbitant then.

$30000 card? $3000 fee.
$12000 card? $1000 fee.
$7000 card? $500 fee.
$750 card? $75 fee.

I have my wife’s engagement ring insured through USAA for 2% of the value annually. I know there are grading costs and shipping costs associated with these fees also, but those costs are huge for the high-end stuff. Especially when you consider how few cards are subsequently deemed not worthy of the grade, fake, or altered.

How many cards a year do you think fall into that guarantee? I’ve been here almost two years and hve yet to come across a post where a member needed to use that guarantee.

You pay that annually. 6 years from now, you are saving money with the PSA system.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

define "valuable"

Last couple I've seen have been about $8000

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

You pay that annually. 6 years from now, you are saving money with the PSA system.

This is true, you pay your premium annually, however the probability of a loss is likely much higher. PSA doesn’t insure against losing the card, fires, theft, etc. They simply guarantee that the card in the case is the grade on the flip. So I’m the rare event it gets damaged in the case (this actually happened to my Jordan because what looks like a piece of salt that got in the case from the grader), or the card was altered or forged and not caught by the grader.

Do these things happen? Sure. But these are things PSA can defend against and train their people for. Most PSA cards will not get damaged in the case with normal use/storage. And while we have seen more trimmed and forged cards, I’m sure it’s a very small fraction of a submissions each year (which includes some people who never even notice).

What if you resub a high value card for a grade bump but it doesn’t get bumped? Does PSA say, no worries we already collected the premium on this card, so you are insured? Of course not.

Also if PSA self-insures as someone suggested above, that only reinforces to me their confidence that the “premium” they collect is far greater than their exposure or perceived risk (i.e., they are making money).




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by cking

Its funny that they have time to look up auction prices so they can upcharge you.

Actually, their website integration is doing it for them. Remember a couple years ago they added their Auction Prices Realized, and you can now check sold prices by looking up the Cert number. So they don't really have to take extra time to see sold prices. The lookup is happening automatically.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Actually, their website integration is doing it for them. Remember a couple years ago they added their Auction Prices Realized, and you can now check sold prices by looking up the Cert number. So they don't really have to take extra time to see sold prices. The lookup is happening automatically.

That sale wasn't real though. While I can't find the thread, this auction was discussed here when it happened.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/372074413663

So PSA is using false sales to justify their pricing scheme. Very good system they have going there.

[danimal875]

I just saw that PSA is actually self determining the declared value now?! That is absolutely criminal. The declared value is for insurance purposes in case they damage the card. That should be determined by the owner of the card and how much protection they want. The fact that PSA thinks it has some god given right to apply some sliding scale and make a defined percentage of a card's value is criminal. Especially if they are holding someone's property ransom.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by danimal875

I just saw that PSA is actually self determining the declared value now?! That is absolutely criminal. The declared value is for insurance purposes in case they damage the card. That should be determined by the owner of the card and how much protection they want. The fact that PSA thinks it has some god given right to apply some sliding scale and make a defined percentage of a card's value is criminal. Especially if they are holding someone's property ransom.

No, no, no. We have to pay for their insurance.

It's like you bringing your car to the shop to get the oil changed and them charging you triple what the last guy paid because you drive an M3 and he drives a 1999 Civic hatchback. They might damage the car in the shop, and they need to charge you for that possibility.

[Kobefan]

I don't know what your preferences are, but when I think about getting cards graded, I don't need the company to provide a money back guaranty that the card is not fake, at least not at the cost of these kind of premiums. What I really want is knowledgeable graders and authenticators taking their times and very best efforts to ensure that the card is real.

[Bjackson24]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Fair enough. I had not been able to locate that before.

I still do not agree with the practice as it is an obvious conflict of interest for the grading company.

Agreed. And with so many cards (let's say mainly from 80's and 90's) not getting a 10 grade, the customer would be always having to pay more for a card on the grading fee for only a small chance of actually getting a gem mint grade.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Last couple I've seen have been about $8000

I know what card you speak of.
You should probably just sell/trade it to me so you don’t have to worry about the issues with the case anymore . You can’t have any of my eminence cards, but I might be able to find something else that’ll picque your interest.