Another Day, Another Trimmed Card—Avoid this PSA 10 Peyton Manning Auto

superdan49 · 03-19-2019, 07:01 PM

Here's another trimmed card to avoid, a 2005 Upper Deck Peyton Manning Foundations Autograph, graded PSA 10. Below are photos of the card from Worthpoint when it was raw as well as in its current PSA 10 holder.

I am not posting the eBay ID of this seller at this time because this was the only altered football card I found. However, I only quickly looked in his inventory. It might be worth checking out further for someone interested.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Peyton-Mann.../292999780968?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eck-1926017977

PSA and BGS are failing collectors. This needs to be fixed.

GatorPie · 03-19-2019, 07:05 PM

PSA would never grade a trimmed card. Never. They are above reproach.

abcrider04 · 03-19-2019, 07:08 PM

Might have to start my own grading company.

JUNKWAX · 03-19-2019, 07:11 PM

The amount of money and faith that people put into grading companies is almost comical.

goodole13 · 03-19-2019, 07:41 PM

I think I may be done buying 10s for my HOF RC collection. Better chance of being legit with a 9 or below.

SirTommyWinAlot · 03-19-2019, 07:44 PM

I'm moving on to digital cards.

Donkaylove · 03-19-2019, 07:46 PM

Too bad

always look for the white--you would get a paper cut with those edges.

nabzy28 · 03-19-2019, 07:50 PM

Yep, another early-mid 00's Upper Deck auto card from a set that I can attest to came out of packs chipped to all hell a vast majority of the time. I broke a decent amount of that, and had a few of the L.Tomlinson golds /20 at one point. There was nothing worthy of even consideration to send in. Would have had to pray for miracle to get a 9. Backs and corners were consistently wrecked on that set for some reason.

superdan49 · 03-19-2019, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabzy28

Yep, another early-mid 00's Upper Deck auto card from a set that I can attest to came out of packs chipped to all hell a vast majority of the time. I broke a decent amount of that, and had a few of the L.Tomlinson golds /20 at one point. There was nothing worthy of even consideration to send in. Would have had to pray for miracle to get a 9. Backs and corners were consistently wrecked on that set for some reason.

Some sets should never yield a BGS 9.5 or PSA 10. When I see a card from certain sets in a Gem Mint holder, then I go digging. Quite often I find a trimmed card.

imbluestreak23 · 03-19-2019, 08:03 PM

14 year old card in a new lighthouse holder.

Red flag

goodole13 · 03-19-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

14 year old card in a new lighthouse holder.

Red flag

I don't know, I see where it can be a red flag. But I will be submitting some of my older cards to be reholdered into the new lighthouse holder.

imbluestreak23 · 03-19-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodole13

I don't know, I see where it can be a red flag. But I will be submitting some of my older cards to be reholdered into the new lighthouse holder.

True. New holder automatically "imply" trimming or altering. Just a much higher likelihood.

There are still likely several trim jobs sitting around in older holders as well. New holders are easy targets to investigate given the high unlikelihood that fresh gems of highly desirable cards are mined in the wild.

Analogy: 19th century gold rush, at some point the gold runs out unless it's fishy

Bassplayah101 · 03-19-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

True. New holder automatically "imply" trimming or altering. Just a much higher likelihood.

There are still likely several trim jobs sitting around in older holders as well. New holders are easy targets to investigate given the high unlikelihood that fresh gems of highly desirable cards are mined in the wild.

Analogy: 19th century gold rush, at some point the gold runs out unless it's fishy

Im not sure I feel that way either.
I mean, from an investigative standpoint, perhaps a "tag" for future reference, or some additional research beyond the norm, but I dont feel that its a given.

This is such a tough situation, I dont "see" an answer. It would be great for grading companies to hold themselves more accountable and build visual archive with a searchable database (and maintain it) but I dont see that happening.

superdan49 · 03-19-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassplayah101

Im not sure I feel that way either.
I mean, from an investigative standpoint, perhaps a "tag" for future reference, or some additional research beyond the norm, but I dont feel that its a given.

This is such a tough situation, I dont "see" an answer. It would be great for grading companies to hold themselves more accountable and build visual archive with a searchable database (and maintain it) but I dont see that happening.

PSA and BGS should provide scans of every card they grade, and maintain a searchable database of serial numbers as well. And measure cards. And cross-reference with Worthpoint and other resources for really high-end cards. Unfortunately, I do not see them changing until their customers' collective outrage over trimmed and altered cards affects their bottom line.

imbluestreak23 · 03-19-2019, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassplayah101

Im not sure I feel that way either.
I mean, from an investigative standpoint, perhaps a "tag" for future reference, or some additional research beyond the norm, but I dont feel that its a given.

This is such a tough situation, I dont "see" an answer. It would be great for grading companies to hold themselves more accountable and build visual archive with a searchable database (and maintain it) but I dont see that happening.

I meant to type "does not imply." My mistake. Just a higher liklihood depending on the iconic nature of the card.

Bassplayah101 · 03-19-2019, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

PSA and BGS should provide scans of every card they grade, and maintain a searchable database of serial numbers as well. And measure cards. And cross-reference with Worthpoint and other resources for really high-end cards. Unfortunately, I do not see them changing until their customers' collective outrage over trimmed and altered cards affects their bottom line.

I could not agree more with this solution.

vwnut13 · 03-19-2019, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUNKWAX

The amount of money and faith that people put into grading companies is almost comical.

At this point you're better off buying raw.

You're either going to get an untrimmed card or one that was trimmed bad enough to not make it past PSA/BGS.

majestik101 · 03-20-2019, 12:34 AM

Yay! Another trimming thread.... BGS and PSA obviously need an independent third-party internal QC audit system when it comes to vintage.

cking · 03-20-2019, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUNKWAX

The amount of money and faith that people put into grading companies is almost comical.

Almost comicial?

Its not almost comical...it is comical.

Like laugh out loud knee slapping kind of funny.

corndog · 03-20-2019, 04:35 AM

Nice find Superdan. Most people won't spend the time it takes to find these trimmed cards. The research is tedious and time consuming.
PSA and Beckett could have prevented so much of this mess they have created by taking 15 seconds to measure a card when grading. Beyond any doubt, they are absolutely culpable!

PSA has the information on who submitted this card raw. I bet $1000 that this card was less than 2.5 x 3.5 inches.

Your graders really need to be trained on how to use a measuring device.

Here you go PSA... #42393542
Who did it and what are you going to do about it???

Saw a couple of other areas of note to add to your evidence:

corndog · 03-20-2019, 04:50 AM

Found these from this seller in 5 minutes. I have to go to work, but look at the submission numbers... All may have been submitted in the same batch.

rittdk01 · 03-20-2019, 06:32 AM

Modern stuff is nearly impossible to tell if it was trimmed. I bet ultra high end Brady rookies will all start becoming 10’s as the trimming tech gets perfected. This is a reason not to spend idiotic money on newer crap.

altaeria · 03-20-2019, 07:35 AM

PSA should just start selling that trimming device on their website.
It seems to do a really nice job.

superdan49 · 03-20-2019, 08:40 AM

Some of those Mannings from the same PSA batch as the trimmed Manning look suspicious. Those 2003 UD Finite autographs in particular caught my attention.

mrdallas · 03-20-2019, 08:52 AM

This has been mentioned multiple times by more people than just me. But the worst part about trimming is going to be all of the untraceable cards (no serial number) that are out there. If you have the means and ability to trim I imagine these people can get through a ton of cards in a day. Makes me start to question the people that brag about sending 100 cards submissions to PSA or BGS and say. What an amazing grading day. I remember someone on BO submitted like 100 Soto's or someone like that and got a PSA 10 on every one. hmmm. Makes me wonder now. How much money did they spend on that submission. Unless you can guarantee they all come back 10's you are losing your ass.

Brings me to this card. This Griffey Jr 98 Pacific Platinum Blue is a PSA 10. Please look closely. The centering is off because IMO it was trimmed (please see arrows showing how the design around the name is way closer on the right edge), but the edges are perfect and the card looks way small in that case. These cards are nearly impossible to grade a PSA 10. I bought tons back in the day and they always had slight issues with the edges or corners. You tell me? Trimmed? This is going to be the problem moving forward. Not the traceable cards, but The ones that we have no way of knowing or researching the history of. (I wish I did buy this card so I could match it up with other Pacific Platinum Blue cards I have)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Pacifi...p2047675.l2557

03-19-2019, 07:01 PM	#1
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	Another Day, Another Trimmed Card—Avoid this PSA 10 Peyton Manning Auto Here's another trimmed card to avoid, a 2005 Upper Deck Peyton Manning Foundations Autograph, graded PSA 10. Below are photos of the card from Worthpoint when it was raw as well as in its current PSA 10 holder. I am not posting the eBay ID of this seller at this time because this was the only altered football card I found. However, I only quickly looked in his inventory. It might be worth checking out further for someone interested. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Peyton-Mann.../292999780968? https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eck-1926017977 PSA and BGS are failing collectors. This needs to be fixed.

03-19-2019, 07:08 PM	#3
abcrider04 Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,361 abcrider0586	Might have to start my own grading company. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/137450166@N02/albums Kirk Cousins Collector

03-19-2019, 07:41 PM	#5
goodole13 Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,158 goodole13 goodole13	I think I may be done buying 10s for my HOF RC collection. Better chance of being legit with a 9 or below. __________________ PC: RAMS CONTENDERS ROOKIE TICKETS & DII CONTENDERS ROOKIE TICKETS SHOW-OFF THREADS --- *RAMS TICKETS* https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1285326 ***** DII TICKETS** https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1399475 https://sportscardalbum.com/u/goodole13

03-19-2019, 07:50 PM	#8
nabzy28 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: In a warehouse of common sense Posts: 7,317 nabzy28	Yep, another early-mid 00's Upper Deck auto card from a set that I can attest to came out of packs chipped to all hell a vast majority of the time. I broke a decent amount of that, and had a few of the L.Tomlinson golds /20 at one point. There was nothing worthy of even consideration to send in. Would have had to pray for miracle to get a 9. Backs and corners were consistently wrecked on that set for some reason. __________________ Sent from my Danger Hiptop T-Mobile Sidekick in 2002

03-19-2019, 08:03 PM	#10
imbluestreak23 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Meandering the matrix code that the hobby/forum overlords spit out Posts: 18,144 shortslabs	14 year old card in a new lighthouse holder. Red flag __________________ @shortslabs I'VE WITNESSED HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE HERE...IT'S ROTTEN https://www.youtube.com/c/TylerShort

03-19-2019, 07:05 PM	#2
GatorPie Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,199	PSA would never grade a trimmed card. Never. They are above reproach.

03-19-2019, 07:11 PM	#4
JUNKWAX Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: TEXAS Posts: 719	The amount of money and faith that people put into grading companies is almost comical.

03-19-2019, 07:44 PM	#6
SirTommyWinAlot Banned Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Gillette Stadium/Foxboro Posts: 6,545	I'm moving on to digital cards.

03-19-2019, 07:46 PM	#7
Donkaylove Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: PNW Posts: 3,220	Too bad always look for the white--you would get a paper cut with those edges.

03-20-2019, 12:34 AM	#18
majestik101 Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Socially Distanced Posts: 45,526 majestik101	Yay! Another trimming thread.... BGS and PSA obviously need an independent third-party internal QC audit system when it comes to vintage. Last edited by majestik101; 03-20-2019 at 12:37 AM.

03-20-2019, 04:35 AM	#20
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,660	Nice find Superdan. Most people won't spend the time it takes to find these trimmed cards. The research is tedious and time consuming. PSA and Beckett could have prevented so much of this mess they have created by taking 15 seconds to measure a card when grading. Beyond any doubt, they are absolutely culpable! PSA has the information on who submitted this card raw. I bet $1000 that this card was less than 2.5 x 3.5 inches. Your graders really need to be trained on how to use a measuring device. Here you go PSA... #42393542 Who did it and what are you going to do about it??? Saw a couple of other areas of note to add to your evidence: __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

03-20-2019, 04:50 AM	#21
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 18,660	Found these from this seller in 5 minutes. I have to go to work, but look at the submission numbers... All may have been submitted in the same batch. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal. Last edited by corndog; 03-20-2019 at 05:56 AM.

03-20-2019, 06:32 AM	#22
rittdk01 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,416	Modern stuff is nearly impossible to tell if it was trimmed. I bet ultra high end Brady rookies will all start becoming 10’s as the trimming tech gets perfected. This is a reason not to spend idiotic money on newer crap.

03-20-2019, 07:35 AM	#23
altaeria Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: CenterCityPhiladelphia Posts: 1,934 altaeria altaeria	PSA should just start selling that trimming device on their website. It seems to do a really nice job.

03-20-2019, 08:40 AM	#24
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,272	Some of those Mannings from the same PSA batch as the trimmed Manning look suspicious. Those 2003 UD Finite autographs in particular caught my attention.

03-20-2019, 08:52 AM	#25
mrdallas Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,848 robbyg8	This has been mentioned multiple times by more people than just me. But the worst part about trimming is going to be all of the untraceable cards (no serial number) that are out there. If you have the means and ability to trim I imagine these people can get through a ton of cards in a day. Makes me start to question the people that brag about sending 100 cards submissions to PSA or BGS and say. What an amazing grading day. I remember someone on BO submitted like 100 Soto's or someone like that and got a PSA 10 on every one. hmmm. Makes me wonder now. How much money did they spend on that submission. Unless you can guarantee they all come back 10's you are losing your ass. Brings me to this card. This Griffey Jr 98 Pacific Platinum Blue is a PSA 10. Please look closely. The centering is off because IMO it was trimmed (please see arrows showing how the design around the name is way closer on the right edge), but the edges are perfect and the card looks way small in that case. These cards are nearly impossible to grade a PSA 10. I bought tons back in the day and they always had slight issues with the edges or corners. You tell me? Trimmed? This is going to be the problem moving forward. Not the traceable cards, but The ones that we have no way of knowing or researching the history of. (I wish I did buy this card so I could match it up with other Pacific Platinum Blue cards I have) https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Pacifi...p2047675.l2557 Last edited by mrdallas; 03-20-2019 at 08:57 AM.