A Very Important Paypal Dispute Learning Experience

[KidKards101]

Originally Posted by theleica

Can you post a picture you took of the card you sold a few months ago in the PSA holder?

I would if I had one.. Unfortunately for me, when I listed the card up for sale, i did that through the ebay post a picture section, which will not save on your cell phone even if you used your cell phone to take the picture. I thought I had saved a picture of the card too just to have a pic but after looking through my computer, photobucket, etc. nada.

[KidKards101]

Originally Posted by theleica

Can't you just email the guy (you mentioned you have his email through paypal) and ask him? Why do you need his eBay account name?

I did email him but no response yet

[theleica]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

I would if I had one.. Unfortunately for me, when I listed the card up for sale, i did that through the ebay post a picture section, which will not save on your cell phone even if you used your cell phone to take the picture. I thought I had saved a picture of the card too just to have a pic but after looking through my computer, photobucket, etc. nada.

And let me guess. Your unsold eBay auctions don't go back that far to when you listed it on eBay?

This whole thing is confusing.

How do you even know the PSA label he sent back is the same # label you had originally?

We can't find the original eBay listing when you purchased it in August 2016 because you didn't go through eBay when you bought it so there are NO pictures then.

You own the card for over 2 1/2 years but you never take a picture of it.


We can't find any pictures from your recent eBay listing when you sold it in 2018 because you didn't go through eBay when you sold it AND you used some mobile picture thing so the picture didn't save to your phone so there are NO pictures from then either.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by theleica

And let me guess. Your unsold eBay auctions doesn't go back that far to when you listed it on eBay?

This whole thing is confusing.

How do you even know the PSA label he sent back is the same # label you had originally?

We can't find the original eBay listing when you purchased it in August 2016 because you didn't go through eBay when you bought it so there are NO pictures then.

You own the card for over 2 1/2 years but you never take a picture of it.


We can't find any pictures from your recent eBay listing when you sold it in 2018 because you didn't go through eBay when you sold it AND you used some mobile picture thing so the picture didn't save to your phone so there are NO pictures from then either.

And the two auctions that did have that serial number and what looks like the exact card the buyer returned to the seller were from July 2017 on EBay.

[theleica]

Originally Posted by pgisback

And the two auctions that did have that serial number and what looks like the exact card the buyer returned to the seller were from July 2017 on EBay.

Could the buyer in Washington have bought 2 PSA 8's and cracked them both, accidentally sending the OP back the PSA 8 label from the other card and a fake card?

It seems absolutely insane, but from what I gather the OP can't prove that PSA label is his.

[Rickey]

.....

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by theleica

Could the buyer in Washington have bought 2 PSA 8's and cracked them both, accidentally sending the OP back the PSA 8 label from the other card and a fake card?

It seems absolutely insane, but from what I gather the OP can't prove that PSA label is his.

Ha, I guess that’s possible. Pretty elaborate scam that would be so easily disproven if there was any evidence of the card that was sold.

[KidKards101]

I dugged this up from a message I deleted on ebay. You can clearly make out the PSA label number and that it was slabbed. Best pic I have, sorry.

[IMG]

Was being nosey and the buyer did buy this card a day before mine:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JOR...p2047675.l2557

[KidKards101]

Someone a few pages back mentioned that his ebay ID is no longer there. When I posted the link up for the other Jordan he bought, I can still see he has an active account now with 5 feedbacks as a buyer.

[rman112]

To me, one of the most important things in this whole ordeal is whether or not this buyer is actually 'Glen Lee' or not.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

I dugged this up from a message I deleted on ebay. You can clearly make out the PSA label number and that it was slabbed. Best pic I have, sorry.

In the absence of a better pic, I don't think anyone here is going to be able to tell if the card or slab is real/fake unfortunately.

Can fake PSA slabs have barcodes that scan? I though the answer was no.

[Southpas2013]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

Thanks for that! Probably my only way to get my money back is to do it through small claims court. I wonder how much it's going to cost though and if it is even worth it? Never done anything through small claims and also wouldn't know how long this is all going to take. I have to weigh in the amount of time, money, and resources into small claims and if it is really worth it with a guaranteed win in this case. I know nothing is 100% guaranteed but are my chances high enough to win this mess?

Another idea that the last Paypal rep I talked to suggested is to have it as a $2k loss in my tax return. I'm no tax expert but would the IRS actually take that amount out of my taxes or any at all?

Small claims court shouldn't cost you more than $150. The filing fees and the fee to have Paypal served. Not 100% but atleast its worth a try. It will take sometime maybe 1-2 months. Usually you file a case after you send the demand letter 2 weeks after, then they schedule a court date.

And yes you can write off the 2k on your taxes also, have your accountant do it.

Who in the world would crack out a Jordan RC out of it's case!!?? Shady man, pulling the 'ol switch'a'roo

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Southpas2013

Small claims court shouldn't cost you more than $150. The filing fees and the fee to have Paypal served. Not 100% but atleast its worth a try. It will take sometime maybe 1-2 months. Usually you file a case after you send the demand letter 2 weeks after, then they schedule a court date.

And yes you can write off the 2k on your taxes also, have your accountant do it.

Who in the world would crack out a Jordan RC out of it's case!!?? Shady man, pulling the 'ol switch'a'roo

If the buyer can prove the card he received was counterfeit, what case does the seller have? I think only in the Blowout world does the slab protect the seller from being responsible for the card being a counterfeit. What buyers do with the stuff they buy is up to them. If someone wants to cut their card out of a case to resubmit it or keep it raw, they are allowed to do that with their own property.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pgisback

If the buyer can prove the card he received was counterfeit, what case does the seller have? I think only in the Blowout world does the slab protect the seller from being responsible for the card being a counterfeit. What buyers do with the stuff they buy is up to them. If someone wants to cut their card out of a case to resubmit it or keep it raw, they are allowed to do that with their own property.

No one cares what the buyer does with his property. However, once he cracks the card, he owns it and never should try to return it. Trying to return a card after you crack it is just trying to screw the seller.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by rats60

No one cares what the buyer does with his property. However, once he cracks the card, he owns it and never should try to return it. Trying to return a card after you crack it is just trying to screw the seller.

Lol, cracking out a card you think is real but learning it is fake is not on the buyer. The fact you think you can sell people counterfeit goods and not be responsible because they took the counterfeit they didn't know they bought out of a case is astonishing. Not surprising the usual suspects think this way though.

[ehp6737]

Originally Posted by pgisback

If the buyer can prove the card he received was counterfeit, what case does the seller have? I think only in the Blowout world does the slab protect the seller from being responsible for the card being a counterfeit. What buyers do with the stuff they buy is up to them. If someone wants to cut their card out of a case to resubmit it or keep it raw, they are allowed to do that with their own property.

I just don't understand why you don't get why cracking the card out of the case makes a difference. Tell you what, this weekend find the nearest card show or lcs, make a large card purchase, then take it home and crack it out. Then the next day bring the card, shards of plastic, and mangled flip back to the dealer and try to get a refund citing it's a fake. Make sure to explain that since it was now yours that you could do whatever you wanted to it. I'm sure you'll have no problem getting that dealer to refund your money

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by ehp6737

I just don't understand why you don't get why cracking the card out of the case makes a difference. Tell you what, this weekend find the nearest card show or lcs, make a large card purchase, then take it home and crack it out. Then the next day bring the card, shards of plastic, and mangled flip back to the dealer and try to get a refund citing it's a fake. Make sure to explain that since it was now yours that you could do whatever you wanted to it. I'm sure you'll have no problem getting that dealer to refund your money

I just don't understand why you don't get sellers are responsible for the goods they sell. The buyer did not get what he paid for. Whether it's in a case or not, he gets a refund. Sucks for a seller, but it's more of the responsibility of the seller to know the authenticity of what he's selling than the buyer. The fact so many of you think sellers can sell counterfeit cards and not be responsible is amazing.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by pgisback

If the buyer can prove the card he received was counterfeit, what case does the seller have? I think only in the Blowout world does the slab protect the seller from being responsible for the card being a counterfeit. What buyers do with the stuff they buy is up to them. If someone wants to cut their card out of a case to resubmit it or keep it raw, they are allowed to do that with their own property.

Agree. The only potential recourse a seller would have is if the card was sent back in the holder. He could then attempt to get his money back from the person that sold it to him if the card and case were both fake, or from PSA if it was a fake card in a real holder.

Removing the card from the slab gives the seller no recourse now. The card, holder and/or label that was sent back may not be the same as what was sent.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Agree. The only potential recourse a seller would have is if the card was sent back in the holder. He could then attempt to get his money back from the person that sold it to him if the card and case were both fake, or from PSA if it was a fake card in a real holder.

Removing the card from the slab gives the seller no recourse now. The card, holder and/or label that was sent back may not be the same as what was sent.

I agree, but I believe it's the same principle as selling a raw counterfeit card. If you sell someone a raw Jordan for $1500 and it turns out to be fake the seller is out $1500 with no recourse. The fact the buyer takes it out of the case is inconvenient for the seller, but he's under no obligation to do keep it in the case. And if he finds out it's a counterfeit, he'll win the case every time because he did not get what he paid for.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by pgisback

I agree, but I believe it's the same principle as selling a raw counterfeit card. If you sell someone a raw Jordan for $1500 and it turns out to be fake the seller is out $1500 with no recourse. The fact the buyer takes it out of the case is inconvenient for the seller, but he's under no obligation to do keep it in the case. And if he finds out it's a counterfeit, he'll win the case every time because he did not get what he paid for.

So in this same scenario if the buyer takes the Jordan out of the case, has it regraded and it comes back a PSA 7 can he return it?

[theleica]

I am still completely confused by this whole story. Something doesn't add up. He buys the card in 2016 and sells in December 2018. But a PSA 8 Jordan with the same serial # sells twice in 2017. The OP doesn't have any pictures of the card except a tiny one he provided yesterday.

I believe the OP got screwed over but you couldn't make up a more perfect storm for such a thing happening.

What can the OP prove if he went to Small Claims?

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by BGT Masters

So in this same scenario if the buyer takes the Jordan out of the case, has it regraded and it comes back a PSA 7 can he return it?

Absolutely not. He paid for an authentic Jordan PSA 8 and got what he paid for.

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Absolutely not. He paid for an authentic Jordan PSA 8 and got what he paid for.

But it wasn't what he paid for, it was a 7 not an 8 but now he can't return it because it might be the same card but not the same grade thus costing the seller money.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

But it wasn't what he paid for, it was a 7 not an 8 but now he can't return it because it might be the same card but not the same grade thus costing the seller money.

It was what he paid for. An authentic PSA 8 Jordan RC. You take it out and get it regraded and it comes back a 7, that's on the buyer. You take it out and learn it's a fake, that's on the seller.

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by pgisback

It was what he paid for. An authentic PSA 8 Jordan RC. You take it out and get it regraded and it comes back a 7, that's on the buyer. You take it out and learn it's a fake, that's on the seller.

I won't get into the dog chasing the tail argument, just an unfortunate situation for the seller and I definitely think something is shady about this whole deal, don't worry boda will get to the bottom of this eventually.